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AngryPersian
113
Oct 4, 2022
That is so visibly not ergonomic it’s insane. I moved to a Kinesis board and people said I was crazy, but at least Kinesis actually meant to help hurting hands heal rather than use ‘ergonomic’ as a buzzword. There are very dubious people in the comments who seem to only have accounts to comment on this board to boot, so seriously personal advice: DO NOT BUY THIS! The dishonesty at play right in front of us is always staggering. Edit: Let me explain so people understand when a keyboard will and won't hurt, because there are some Dactyl designs to watch out for. First, clench a fist with both hands and notice how your knuckles and thumb move when you twist your wrists around; notice that when your knuckles are aimed at the roof, your thumb has much less vertical flexibility and really only moves left to right; notice when your knuckles are aimed outwards so your thumbs can easily move up and down, your fingers are now lined up to move horizontally now and NOT vertically... THIS IS THE SHAPE OF YOUR HANDS! The problem with this keyboard is that you can see the thumbs are supposed to be moving vertically while also your fingers are supposed to move vertically - this is not in the shape of your hands. I'm noticing comments about Dactyl shaped keyboards, but they are not all made the same. They should have made this thing tented so your fingers were reaching along the vertical axis, but it's not, it's asking fingers and thumbs to move horizontally. You'll either go way slower constantly readjusting or this is going to hurt.
(Edited)
Wikki
0
Oct 4, 2022
AngryPersianDifferent strokes for different folks, but to say what you are saying purely based on your own visual opinion is like picking a kid for your team based on color or some other superficial god given trait. I get that it looks weird or not ergo, but I also know you haven’t spent any amount of time to feel how this board eliminates unnecessary movements in the hand. You have a preference of a type of ergo board and by all accounts, the Kinesis is a great niche board, much in the same way the Hatsu is a great ergo board in a niche category. It’s not for everyone, but neither is the keyboard hobby in general. I would rephrase what you said and suggest that if you are ever interested in buying this board, spend some time with one and feel it out, get to know it and don’t make an uninformed decision. I love mine and use it in ways that no other keyboard allows me to.
jdack
0
Oct 4, 2022
AngryPersianThis shape basically same as manuform dactyl. So your saying about ergonomic is not true. But the true thing is overprice.
Arska
6
Oct 4, 2022
AngryPersianYou're right. This is not ergonomic ... for your wallet. For your hands this could be very ergonomic. This shape of a keyboard is quite common in the ergo scene and is generally called a Dactyl. The rows are on different heights to account for the different lengths of your fingers. Theoretically this keyboard should fit your hand like a glove. That is if your hands match the hands that the keyboard was designed for, which is unlikely. At $1600 I wouldn't take that bet.
AngryPersian
113
Oct 4, 2022
WikkiThis keyboard is clearly and VISIBLY going to contort your hand. I don't need to rephrase what I said because it's just true, Mr. Dubious. Going ergonomic ends up meaning that it goes with the formation of the hand's grip, this keyboard looks like it was inspired by other ACTUALLY ergonomic keyboards, and then decided to stand out by completely ruining the point. Imagine laying your hands on this and typing, it's in no way like you grip. The most basic part of R&D when it comes to getting ergonomic on keyboards and this thing visibly fails.
Wikki
0
Oct 4, 2022
jdackIt’s absolutely ergonomic. And priced accordingly
Wikki
0
Oct 4, 2022
AngryPersian
search
Again. You are going based on visual. I am telling facts.
(Edited)
AngryPersian
113
Oct 4, 2022
ArskaI love the Dactyl boards and would agree with you, but looking at this specific one I still have to give it an enormous no. Yes it theoretically is a Dactyl shaped split board, but it's obvious they were just inspired by that design and messed it up. That's why the third picture is a theoretic hand; a real hand would make it obvious what a junk board it is. That thump row is begging for trigger finger; they keys are being spaced to look cool more than they are to be comfortable to reach (so you don't contort trying); there's even a row where it's not clear if that's for your thumbs or for your fingers!!
AngryPersian
113
Oct 4, 2022
WikkiYou aren't telling facts, you're lying. That picture makes it more obvious than anything that this thing is too funky for hands. Also you should disclose now whether or not you work for the company. You just are so clearly full of shit in not just this thread, but the ones below.
AngryPersian
113
Oct 4, 2022
jdackYou're putting them all in the same boat, and I'm telling you I've tried the ones with the goofy ass curves on the thumb keys and I've also gotten to a point where I couldn't remove a power plug from a power outlet because that crap only helps cause trigger finger. There's a reason more competent companies don't have this variation unless it's a sort of tented keyboard. I would certainly rag on ANY keyboard that had the tented thumbs but the non tented keys.
(Edited)
jdack
0
Oct 4, 2022
WikkiIMO, nope. It's not worth in function side. I can tell the thing most of here doesn't know, this keyboard's sleep behaviour is so annoying. And there are a lot of things going on, ultimately I think I'm going to throw away the entire inside of this keyboard and fill it with my own board. I just love the look of this keyboard...
GoosieBoi
3
Oct 4, 2022
AngryPersianThat keyboard gave me carpal tunnel & wrist pain just by looking at it.
jdack
0
Oct 4, 2022
AngryPersianI don't know what you're talking about, but I understand what you're complaining about anyway. Is there any difference other than fewer rows?🤔 https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/ak8d0m/dactyl_manuform_5x7/
AngryPersian
113
Oct 4, 2022
jdackI made a full explanation as well. I like the one you linked because it's tented, notice how much closer to the roof the 'G' key is to the 'A' key? That's a tent, it's sloped down so your fingers can rest in a position where your thumb can easily use those thumb keys.
jdack
0
Oct 4, 2022
AngryPersianHATSU also tented, but I guess the slope is a little more gradual. So what about this? https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/ Anyway, I don't think it makes that much difference.  Of course you can dislike it in your opinion, but to say it is not ergonomic is a bit too big word.
Arska
6
Oct 4, 2022
AngryPersianI haven't tried a dactyl but this looks a lot like one. You seem to have trouble explaining exactly what makes this board less ergonomic than other dactyls.
AngryPersian
113
Oct 4, 2022
ArskaI updated my initial comment to be more clear what makes something not ergonomic. In short, this particular keyboard makes both fingers and thumbs work vertically, when your grip actually has your thumb making a different motion than the other 4 fingers.
(Edited)
AngryPersian
113
Oct 4, 2022
jdackThat is very very sound. That one makes the fingers move vertically but thumbs move horizontally. It's a very good design, and having tried their products before I would definitely vouch for Kinesis keyboards being legitimately ergonomic. edit: and yes, the Hatsu is nowhere near tented enough for that kind of design on the thumbs.
(Edited)
Arska
6
Oct 4, 2022
AngryPersianI guess I see what you're saying, but I use my Moonlander with just about this much tenting with the thumb clusters in a similar position to this and I don't have any issues with it. I have moderate to large hands. If you're talking about the second row of thumb keys, I do think they are vestigial and I wouldn't ever use them. Edit: But as I said, I've never tried a dactyl, so it's hard for me to say whether this is actually ergonomic or not.
(Edited)
Wikki
0
Oct 4, 2022
ArskaI was seriously looking at a moonlander before I stumbled onto the Hatsu. The Hatsu is a result of a drunken purchase that made me happier than a pig in sheeeeit.
TheBossOfAir
33
Oct 4, 2022
AngryPersianJust feels like there are so many mistakes in the listing, All-white "RGB" array, KEycap Set, USB-C for data transfer (how do you charge it then?). And in terms of price the lack of features with soldered not hotswap, and seemingly no QMK/VIA support which from what I would think (plank user) you would want to choose what those thumb clusters do especially.
AngryPersian
113
Oct 4, 2022
ArskaThe Moonlander is also a legit ergonomic board that doesn't do that thing where some of the thumb keys are tilted and some not. Also the spacing on that on the fingers, for the little tent it has, works. Going back to my two clenched fists analogy there, the Moonlander conforms to the first twisted so the knuckles aim towards the roof at a 45 degree angle. That's legit.
Lilalas
14
Oct 5, 2022
AngryPersianIf you paid attention to the renders, you’d notice this device is designed to be used by robots, not people.
Wikki
0
Oct 9, 2022
AngryPersianNo. You are simply wrong. It is the most ergo board I’ve used and it works perfectly for my needs. Apparently you do not know what ergo is and if you think you do, you’ve never used one. Sorry but your points are invalid until I see you with hands on a Hatsu.
AngryPersian
113
Oct 9, 2022
WikkiBy all means but there’s no way you’re on much of a time crunch with a heavy load of work that needs to be done. A good ergonomic keyboard should be able to help your hands recover as you continue to work fast and hard. I just don’t see myself not getting fired using that. The fingers are incredibly spaced apart and the thumb clusters don’t work well with that layout. I think every other board mentioned here so far is by far better than this thing at ergonomics.
Hahnzo
62
Oct 9, 2022
AngryPersianSo you know better than someone who has felt it just by looking at it? Please teach me how this is done. Also, the real point you are both missing is "ergonomic" is not one size fits all. But saying it feels bad based on a picture is asinine.
(Edited)
AngryPersian
113
Oct 10, 2022
HahnzoNot really... A.) The person you are referring to has been shilling this product and refusing to answer the question of whether or not they work for the company. B.) Dude what I explained in my very first comment, specifically about your thumbs and fingers wanting to work opposite of each other, is a universal thing, unless there's some non chimp-based people you know about?? Absolutely you can see which boards this thing was inspired from and why it fails. Your use of the word asinine is asinine, btw.
Hahnzo
62
Oct 11, 2022
AngryPersianIt was ALMOST a mature response lol. You tried though. Yeah I just don't think you understand that looking at a picture and feeling it are two separate things. The thumb cluster is actually pretty easy to navigate. But nothing I say will convince you otherwise. You have decided you know better than actual users of the board. So as I said before, asinine logic.
(Edited)
AngryPersian
113
Oct 11, 2022
HahnzoI wasn't trying to be mature with you because you clearly glossed over my points and jumped to doubt someone being able to see something isn't ergonomic. Again, it should be good enough to not slow your work down and help your hands recover. Also, have you tried just in the air typing looking at the shape and spacing the keys have? And again, the immaturity started because your use of the word asinine is wildly asinine, and going back to 'Durrr how can you tell without buying', is really ironic and telling.
Hahnzo
62
Oct 11, 2022
AngryPersianThis will be my last reply. Have a nice life. My time is better spent doing literally anything else than further engaging in conversation with you.
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