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Showing 1 of 9 conversations about:
Deaomega1214
478
Apogee Culinary Designs
Sep 2, 2017
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keantokenAs the owner and designer of the company, I can tell you that the warrantee on the knife does cover dishwasher use. However, putting a knife like this in the dishwasher is one of the most dangerous things you can do. Person A puts it in the dishwasher, person B doesnot know it is in the dishwasher, and the next thing you know its off to the emergency room. It just isn't safe to do this, so please don't. however if you still want to, its covered.
keantoken
34
Sep 2, 2017
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Deaomega1214Ha, thanks. I knew this might seem like a silly question but I thought I would ask. I know everyone will groan but... I really want a knife I can put in the dishwasher.
I don't understand the warning though. If I can't see that there is a knife in the dishwasher, then the dishwasher is so overstuffed that nothing would have gotten clean anyways. Maybe I'm lucky since my family is of the anxiously cautious type.
As for rubbing on things and getting dull, no one here would put a knife in in such a way that would happen. So the only other possibility I can think of is the burr of the knife corroding due to it's thinness. If that's a problem, then it would be one major way that corrosion-resistant knives are the knives of the future.
I don't understand the warning though. If I can't see that there is a knife in the dishwasher, then the dishwasher is so overstuffed that nothing would have gotten clean anyways. Maybe I'm lucky since my family is of the anxiously cautious type.
As for rubbing on things and getting dull, no one here would put a knife in in such a way that would happen. So the only other possibility I can think of is the burr of the knife corroding due to it's thinness. If that's a problem, then it would be one major way that corrosion-resistant knives are the knives of the future.
Deaomega1214
478
Apogee Culinary Designs
Sep 3, 2017
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keantokenIt's your call, but it will hold up to the dish washer
apogeeculinary
3
Sep 5, 2017
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keantokenIn Ryky's top 5 knife picks, the Dragon 8.5" Fusion holds true to expectation!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5YJnhIgkK4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5YJnhIgkK4
InspecorPoirot
7
Sep 7, 2017
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keantokenThe actual reason why you don't want to put a knife that you want to stay sharp in the dishwasher is due to the nature of steel. When you get your knife it will have gone through a heat treatment process where the red hot knife is quenched in a cooling fluid. This makes the knife very brittle, so it is then tempered by putting it in an oven at a lower temperature so that it gains back some of it's ductility. The danger of having your knife in the dishwasher is that it gets very hot in the drying cycle. Enough so that with repeated washes, the knife will keep loosing its hardness so that the act of cutting mundane things will dull the edge signifigantly. This is why no knife that you value (unless you get a ceramic edge) is "dishwasher safe". If you're going to toss in a $5 IKEA blade, that's fine, but I would suggest refraining from putting a blade this valuable in your dishwasher
keantoken
34
Sep 7, 2017
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InspecorPoirotThanks, that makes more sense. My dishwasher doesn't have a drying cycle, so the max temp it would see is probably 160F, or maybe even less. It's not a very good dishwasher. Someone must have tested or calculated this effect somewhere. I imagine different steels would also have different susceptibilities.
Deaomega1214
478
Apogee Culinary Designs
Sep 8, 2017
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InspecorPoirotOk, I didn't really want to get into this, but as the person who has been in knife manufacturing for almost 30 years and the person credited for startIng Shun and the owner of Apogee, I have heard more opinions and theories on the dishwasher than I can count. Inspector Poirot is correct, depending on the steel, extended periods in the dishwasher could affect the tempering. However heat treating usually involves temperatures that would melt plastic. So if your plastic spoon is holding shape and not turning into a pile of goo, you are probably fine. When we first started Shun, we ran it through the dishwasher 500 times. There were some minute changes on the edge, but nothing to write home about. We did the same with Dragon, and really saw no change. This was because both of these steels were hea treated to an above 60HRC. knives in the mid to lower 50'swould show more damage.
So now I'm going to offend some people, but here is the truth. There are very few things we agree on as an industry. The dish washer is one. Doing this is an express train ticket to stupid town. I am not speaking from theory or opinion, but from fact. It is one of the number one causes for trips to the emergency room from the kitchen. You can give me all of the excuses and justificactions you want, it doesn't change the fact. It's dangerous you shouldn't do it.
So why don't knife companies warranty for the dishwasher? I just told you it really doesn't affect the blade that much. It's the handle that fails. Materials like wood, pakkawood, and POM, get trashed in the dishwasher. First they are subject to almost boiling water which causes swelling, then heat drying which causes shrinking. Over time this will cause warping, rot, and cracking. Knife companies can fix blades, but they can't fix handles. This is why they tell you not to put in there.
The only materials that will hold up, are micarta and G10. Dragon uses Micarta, because I'm smart enough to know that all of my soap box screaming won't really change your mind. The sad fact is that it's going in. So the Dragon knives warranty does cover the dishwasher. But for the love of god, don't do it. If someone you love reaches in and seriously hurts or even maimes themselves, you will never forgive yourself. Do you have any idea how many nerves and tendons are in your hand that can be severed? The worst I ever heard was a child who was a prodigy for the piano ended her future destiny when she severed a group of nerves in the palm of her hand. So please, just don't do it. PLEASE!!!!!!
So now I'm going to offend some people, but here is the truth. There are very few things we agree on as an industry. The dish washer is one. Doing this is an express train ticket to stupid town. I am not speaking from theory or opinion, but from fact. It is one of the number one causes for trips to the emergency room from the kitchen. You can give me all of the excuses and justificactions you want, it doesn't change the fact. It's dangerous you shouldn't do it.
So why don't knife companies warranty for the dishwasher? I just told you it really doesn't affect the blade that much. It's the handle that fails. Materials like wood, pakkawood, and POM, get trashed in the dishwasher. First they are subject to almost boiling water which causes swelling, then heat drying which causes shrinking. Over time this will cause warping, rot, and cracking. Knife companies can fix blades, but they can't fix handles. This is why they tell you not to put in there.
The only materials that will hold up, are micarta and G10. Dragon uses Micarta, because I'm smart enough to know that all of my soap box screaming won't really change your mind. The sad fact is that it's going in. So the Dragon knives warranty does cover the dishwasher. But for the love of god, don't do it. If someone you love reaches in and seriously hurts or even maimes themselves, you will never forgive yourself. Do you have any idea how many nerves and tendons are in your hand that can be severed? The worst I ever heard was a child who was a prodigy for the piano ended her future destiny when she severed a group of nerves in the palm of her hand. So please, just don't do it. PLEASE!!!!!!
keantoken
34
Oct 5, 2017
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Deaomega1214Thanks for the detailed reply. On the internet, you can't tell who is who you just know a lot of different people write things and there is nothing to tell you who to listen to, who actually knows what they're talking about. So to get your point across you do have to bare your experience and your conscience as you just did, to get people to listen and at the expense of your valuable time. Thank you.
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