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yay-nay
28
Jun 16, 2019
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The eternal question to the company (Beyerdynamic) is why this model is not updated with removable cable, but most of all, why the 16Ω version has remained out of the offer and out of production, being produced at the time only as a limited production run. In these mobile times that headphone is reportedly easier to run of the smartphone and laptop without the need for USB DAC/amp. For anyone who would now want to enter "the debate" with the "argument" that the 32Ω version is efficient enough, no, I would not agree with that, since I have spent some time with it, and run detailed comparisons with some other headphones that are often listed as a competitors within the price bracket/segment. This has more to do with the combination of the impedance (less important) and relatively low sensitivity (96db), the latter seems to be somewhat limiting factor. For the sound quality, this headphone would have been much better without either bass-reflex system (which seems to yield an exaggerated bass response, ruining what could have otherwise been a fantastic headphone for the price) or with some serious dampening adjustments to the driver and/or the membrane, in order to make the bass response less exaggerated . This headphone has otherwise excellent sonic potential, great natural tonality, speed, detail retrieval. To me - the (at times) overwhelming bass response simply kills the joy.
(Edited)
Jun 16, 2019
mac_bug
0
Jun 18, 2019
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You should check out the Custom Ones then if you want 16 ohms and removable cable. There's also the Custom Studio, which has tunable bass response more to your liking, though it's 80 ohms. Also you should check the output impedance of the source you're using, for the 80ohm version ideally your source has output impedance of 10 ohm or less.
Jun 18, 2019
LowFi42
263
Aug 1, 2019
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Because it would require retooling, re-training of staff, and a product shift. All of which are very costly for a bunch of headphones which are pretty much already their best-sellers afaik.
(Edited)
Aug 1, 2019
yay-nay
28
Aug 11, 2019
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No, it would not require none of that . Why ? Well, the 16Ω version of this headphone (if you have referred to that) has been actually in production, in existence, and it can still be found used. That would solve the problem of the driving it with mobile devices, even it lower impedance has proven (according to the extensive listening tests, detailed measurements, etc.) to affect the sq of this model negatively. The major problem of this headphone, be it the "biggest seller" or not is the bass reflex, which has been (rightfully so) described as giving the headphone very unstable nature (very easily exaggerated) in terms of bass response.
Aug 11, 2019
LowFi42
263
Aug 12, 2019
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I was talking about the detachable cable
Aug 12, 2019
yay-nay
28
Aug 13, 2019
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The year is 2019 and not 1965. Detachable cable (which was, btw., a minor, and not a major thing I have addressed in my comment that you have replied to) is not that big a deal to implement as you suggest. We are not talking about something as difficult to change as you portray it to be. I've been working in the production line and know what I am talking about.
(Edited)
Aug 13, 2019
LowFi42
263
Aug 15, 2019
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It's all about different perspectives. If you had a medium sized business, would you worry about altering machinery, training staff etc for certain products which are already bestsellers? Not to mention, the prices would increase so who is to say it would be worth it as many people may be put off by the prices? I have taken business in the past and a decision like this is much more to do with numbers and sales rather than just producing the product, and is in fact absolutely more complicated than you project.
Aug 15, 2019
yay-nay
28
Aug 15, 2019
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Not really. First of all, Beyerdynamic strikes me as more than a medium size business. Second, you keep mentioning arguments about "altering machinery, training staff" for alteration of the product. Guess what, Beyerdynamic already had headphone models that were hard wired and released new versions as detachable. It would not be that much of a cost-issue either, and there is more than enough mention from users and large enough segment of the market is taken within this price bracket to justify this. It does have to do with numbers and sales, and large number of sold headphones (or any products) would arguably do the trick in this regard. This headphone has seductive clarity of sound and speed of the driver; a deal breaker and what deterred me completely from it was not even the "cable issue" (detachable has its disadvantages as well) but the (way overblown, but most of all uneven) bass response.
Aug 15, 2019
dnalekaw
211
Aug 15, 2019
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The more you keep extending this out and providing no rationalisation will only make you sound more stupid. Lowfi is right, it would not be a smart move on beyerdynamics part both in terms of balancing the cost that comes with retooling and training against a market that may not accept the higher price. The custom studio was an example and they haven't revised the 770 yet. So the argument against you has already been won, from beyerdynamic themselves.
Aug 15, 2019
LowFi42
263
Aug 15, 2019
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Yeah I don't think you get what I'm saying at all. The custom studio is exactly what you are after yet you are still wanting an updated revision of the dt 770? Releasing two products on the market which are exactly the same would be absolutely stupid.
Aug 15, 2019
yay-nay
28
Aug 15, 2019
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Actually, I have provided full rationalisation to what I am proposing, and many other headfi enthusiasts have said and expressed. Now, coming out with such insulting, abrasive (aggressive) and demeaning, ad hominem comment, makes someone who writes it (and does not provide a shread of the argument in the process) not only retarded or illiterate, but flat out intellectually challenged. Do some reading on production process, commercial decisions and look how market on headphone side looks like, before making an absolute ... out of yourself. Argument "has been won" according to your "opinion", which is like the less flattering part of someone's anatomy - everyone has one.
Aug 15, 2019
yay-nay
28
Aug 15, 2019
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Flawed statement based and (proven) false argument - again. There are - if you have bothered to test both cans and read what others have said about it - sonic differences between these two headphones, which are judged as not sounding the same at all, in their basic sound signature. I did check my facts before stating things. How about you? Since these products are not the same (reportedly) and many other users have expressed the same about DT-770 as a huge deal breaker, how about taking a good look on your own "reasoning" before coming out with such statements in so "confident" and disqualifying manner ?
Aug 15, 2019
dnalekaw
211
Aug 15, 2019
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I have both headphones actually and I am an avid modder of beyer and fostex cans. The custom studios and dt 770 are exactly the same. When you order a driver for the studios, guess what shows up? Yup, a dt 770 80 ohm driver unit. The only difference is the enclosure, and I bet you would be hard pressed to tell any difference between them whatsoever. Sorry if you felt offended, which you obviously are due to the multiple denigrations made against me, but my feelings do not care for what you say. Next step for you is name-calling, but by that time I will be off and enjoying my life whilst you are here sweating over uselessly defending your unrealistic arguments. Life is too short and I'd give up if I were you. Thanks for the convo my dude
Aug 15, 2019
LowFi42
263
Aug 15, 2019
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My reasoning still stands - it would be idiotic revising a product designed a decade and a half ago while beyerdynamic have undergone major designing and development changes. Notwithstanding, that a product is already on the market which is again, a dt 770 with a detachable cable. Why don't Ford just re-release the Cortina with better brakes and improved handling instead of designing a new product? Oh yeah, I must be stupid, Ford must be stupid, and beyerdynamic must be stupid.
Aug 15, 2019
yay-nay
28
Aug 15, 2019
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I responded to something that you have served first. To invert the reality of the situation (since you first (not me first writing to you) have addressed me in the manner given in your chime-in) - that is your obvious prerequisite, which just firmly confirms what I have stated in my reply to you. So much about the "convos". Regarding your "argument" about both headphones in question, here it is again: Many other people own both, have tried both, and do not think anything alike what you serve as an absolute truth about these respective cans. First of all, enclosure is and always will, to most people, actually have and has the imprint on the sound signature. DT-770 are made with implementation of the bass-reflex, I am advocating the model without bass-reflex. Other people have done modding of both headphones. People do hear things differently and many have expressed that these two cans (even after and before taking them apart, modding them, listening for some time) are not the same. Life IS too short, as you have said, so enjoy your one-way street, it seems to serve you well. All to well, as it seems.
(Edited)
Aug 15, 2019
yay-nay
28
Aug 15, 2019
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It seems that the vast online debate and opinions about DT-770, which (all over the place) flat out deny and completely contradict every single statement you have served - even those in your last reply (thus far) have completely eluded you. You repeat the same arguments, all are ill-founded, flawed, flat-out wrong since the arguments you based them on are both wrong, incorrect and flawed. The comparison with Cortina has no place here, it is difficult to even start dissecting is, it would suffice to say that you are comparing very different things. In the Mid-fi, headphone context, DT-770 is far from what Cortina was in its own world, so basing the argument on such comparison is beyond ridiculous. I have not heard about DT-770 being released ever with detachable cable (I might be wrong here), but I have read a zillion posts and reviews asking for it. Many other models from Beyer and other (numerous) producers have been reissued with detachable cable-updated model. The more of a big seller the headphone is - one can argue both - leave it as it is (due to is popularity) or revise it with detach. cable mod (due to again its popularity as well as popular demand and all aspects of it). About other aspects of the can, much has been written about its bass being the major dealbreaker (as well as praised characteristic from others), so the jury is out there. Which is not the reason to recognize that both sides of the story do exist.
(Edited)
Aug 15, 2019
LowFi42
263
Aug 15, 2019
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1) Please explain why my arguments are incorrect and flawed without arbitrarily saying so. 2) Please give some examples of the 'vast online debate' of the 770's which contradict 'every single statement' I have made. 3) Please list the 'many other Beyer and other (numerous) producers have been reissued with detachable cable-updated model' There is just so much filler in your responses it is honestly hard to filter through. Take a look at what the word 'succinct' means. Thanks
Aug 15, 2019
yay-nay
28
Aug 16, 2019
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1) Please explain why my arguments are incorrect and flawed without arbitrarily saying so. Already done that, based on my experience from the industry and assembly line withing the industry as well, and from my formal education and life-long experience. You do not want to see them nor make any effort to understand a different and well founded point of view. Your arguments are in my view incorrect since you base your reasoning on some flawed comparisons, you disregard the facts or current state of affairs in the headfi market today, as well as disregarding the plethora on posts and user opinions regarding the DT-770 pro. For all love they have received, they have received a good share of criticism (far from the malicious) that I first questioned and disregarded, and then got reminded of, sadly, when I tested them, and had to return them in the end. Regarding your other claims, reality in the industry (headphones) proves you wrong, and it can be easily said that the Beyerdynamic's decision not to introduce these with detachable cable is - while commercial and founded on some calcuation - not meeting the demands of a number of customers. How come that many of well established and renowned companies switched to detachable, and even Beyer updated some of their other cans with that option, but not with these? Easy way out, all the way, and to me - funny decision, and ultimately a backwards one. 3) Please list the 'many other Beyer and other (numerous) producers have been reissued with detachable cable-updated model' Please list the "many other Beyer and other (numerous) producers that have NOT bothered at all to reissue some of the models, or issued a new ones with detachable cables. Take AKG, remember K701 and then change of cabling in K702, and other K7xx, ringing any bells ? Btw. - I have chosen the K701 over the K702 and other K7xx iterations. Beyerdynamic, how about T1 gen 1 vs. T1 gen 2, ringing any bells there? AKG K812, why were not those released as a non detachable ? Why has Sennheiser chosen to go the detachable path with the HD600 onwards - just for fun ? How "unpopular" is the Grado detachable mod ? Perhaps expensive and not often done, but think about it... I would have done it in a second provided the means, my GS1000 crapped out on one channel. Probably crapped driver, but who would have not want to get that soldering and some stuff around that driver rechecked and improved ? I know that detachable cable can cause even more trouble when malfunction happens, on all cans, but for the sake of portability and all practical matters, come on... Audeze, Focal, who else, name those who are (apart from Grado) opting today for releasing the can with non detachable cable ? Audio Technica, take MSR7 and recent MSR7b, SR9, other models as well. What on earth are you talking about man, the list can be made as long as you wish. 2) Please give some examples of the 'vast online debate' of the 770's which contradict 'every single statement' I have made. Since there is no option for attaching the screenshot here, I will quote the first post I remember vividly, and have found again, since at that time I have spent two weeks daily reading the threads about DT-770 32Ω and reviews, as well as the sea of comments under each review I have found. Here it is, the thread is named "DT-770 bass", and the post is about DT-770 as well as the whole that series: "They are not going to reach their full potential out of a MacBook pro. Even junk from the Apple store probably sounds anemic out of a MacBook and these are 250 ohms.
I don't know how decent the Saffire headphone jack is either but surely a minor step up. Getting a headphone amplifier will improve the sound but it won't change their signature coloration, which is big mushy bass, smoothed over/recessed mid range, and a token spike in the high end.

I never understood why the DT xx0 line are occasionally touted for recording applications. Even my "flat" DT 880s sounded boomy and mushy next to my favorites like the K 702 and SRH840. " I have, on a very brief revisit of the cache of my browser, found at least 15 more posts like these, within 5 minutes, as well the sea of claims that it is not so. I disregarded both couple of months ago, ordered the DT-700 pro 32Ω after two weeks of extensive everyday reading, and tried hard myself, for two weeks, every day, out of the laptop, out of the USB dacs, out of the headphone amp, out of you name it. I wanted to keep them for everything apart the unpredictable and exaggerated bass response, that killed them for me, and sadly returned them. Sadly, since, if they were given the uniform, more consistent and flatter bass response, I would have kept them and cherished them for the clarity of the sound, speed of the driver and (apart from the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde bass ) overall great sound. Even if they admittedly have recessed mids. Here is another post, that mirrored exactly my impression the DT-770 bass: " We use the 770s as our main tracking headphones (the ones we give to clients while they perform), so we have a buncha pairs around the studio.

I find the 770s to be pretty hyped and ultimately, very, very unforgiving in the low end. If there's too much bass -- even a bit too much -- you'll get a loose-sounding floppy mess. Kick drums are especially susceptible. Bass players in particular seem to love them for tracking, as they can actually sorta "feel" their instrument through the cans, as though they were playing via monitors. For me, at least, this fact makes them an awesome mixing tool for low end reference.

Anyway, I haven't noticed much of a burn-in time. They kinda just sound like they sound.

I don't particular love the mids or top of them, to be honest; I think they're a bit flat and 2-dimensional. When you say they're not responsive, what exactly do you mean? Ours don't seem to really distort at all, even when cranked up pretty hot (fwiw, we use an Aviom personal mixer headphone system; not exactly totally hi-fi but pretty dang good all things considered). " The post is from the same thread, by another user and gear afficionado, I can easily dig out other web pages with reviews that have number of similar impressions in comment fields, this has been and is well known on the web. As well as reactions to posts like these. In my experience, those reactions do not make these posts, or my own experience less true or less existing. *) There is just so much filler in your responses it is honestly hard to filter through. Take a look at what the word 'succinct' means. Yeah, well, I did take a look (like I was unfamiliar with the term, thanks for that). Hope this answer sheds some light onto that as well, and what (how much) I care about your "remark".
(Edited)
Aug 16, 2019
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