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JonasHeineman
5952
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Aug 26, 2016
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299...who's gonna do it?!? EDIT - I think it was you @Kaozer! WOO HOO, 300 - we're makin a knife, y'all!
Aug 26, 2016
Bobraz
1693
Aug 26, 2016
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@JonasHeinemans the first Massdrop-designed exclusive knife?
Aug 26, 2016
Hackenslash
343
Aug 26, 2016
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Hey Jonas, now that we're making a knife, is it too late to try to change the finish on the clip? That seems to be the consistent criticism of the knife. Thanks.
Aug 26, 2016
Kaozer
274
Aug 26, 2016
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Woo! :D awesome!
Aug 26, 2016
JonasHeineman
5952
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Aug 26, 2016
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Yes, @Bobraz this is the first community-developed product in EDC. We're pretty stoked about the response so far, thanks everyone!
We hope it will open the door for more exclusive and custom products to follow. Audiophile, Mech Keys, and most recently Ultralight have paved the way for custom product development, and I worked on some community-designed products in Writing (Stipula Passaporto, Bexley Imperial, Retro 1951 Tornado), but we're just getting started with EDC. We're learning as we go, so having the community's input and overwhelming support on this first project is a huge boost and great sign for things to come.
We're confident that Boker will nail this, and we appreciate your confidence in us to make sure that happens. Thank you for making this possible!
Aug 26, 2016
yiri
237
Aug 26, 2016
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Jonas... I don't know how much attention you personally pay to the knife community, but let me tell you:
If you get Spyderco to make M4 dealer exclusives with MassDrop you will make a million dollars very fast.
Promise.
Aug 26, 2016
Dredgerie
14
Aug 27, 2016
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Is there any chance we can have the option of a left handed clip, or reversible clips? Tip up is great, but I like to carry left.
Aug 27, 2016
Bobraz
1693
Aug 27, 2016
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@JonasHeineman yes please get a hold of Sal at Spyderco for a Massdrop exclusive! Just please make it a non-serrated blade!
Aug 27, 2016
koge99
5
Aug 27, 2016
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Massdrop exclusives are great for the community and people here respond and support such projects,now start shipping to more countries please. Bring happiness to Greece!
Aug 27, 2016
Bobraz
1693
Aug 29, 2016
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@yiri Just started a poll, in the hope to make a Spyderco and Massdrop exclusive a possibility!
https://www.massdrop.com/vote/Massdrop-Spyderco-Exclusive-Sprint-Run/
Aug 29, 2016
KTEN
62
Aug 30, 2016
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oh you swine right when I don't want to spend any more money :) Joking aside an MD exclusive on the PM2 that ships to UK would be epic. Sadly it is hard to get the dealer exclusive PM's I've wanted in Europe (mainly the M4's and M390) apart from at massive markup and shipping. Cheap enough deal on MD means worth chancing customs who like to send stuff to Mount Doom for made up reasons/lies*. * like holding knife by blade and forcefully flicking open heavy handle makes a UK legal none assisted knife = illegal gravity or flick knife. I know why they do it, looks good on paper in end of year reports, especially expensive knives ( X worth of dangerous goods intercepted = good job and all that).
Aug 30, 2016
JonasHeineman
5952
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Aug 30, 2016
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Thanks @koge99, or logistics team is working to bring knives to more countries. You can check out the FAQ for more info, but the short version is that it's not a customs issue - it's a matter of working with our shipping partners and their policies.
Aug 30, 2016
JonasHeineman
5952
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Aug 30, 2016
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Hey @Dredgerie -- For this drop, changing design elements was out of the question; this is an exclusive, but not a custom. Same goes for the folks who were asking about jimping on the blade. We're not able to change the color of the clip or any other hardware, either. In the future, thanks to the success of this project, we may be able to have more design input from the community earlier in the process. Thanks for these suggestions, comments like this are truly valuable as we try to build on what we've started here.
Aug 30, 2016
JonasHeineman
5952
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Aug 30, 2016
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K we'll get 1000 of those tomorrow, since you promised to buy any that we don't sell in the first drop...right?!? JK, I think you're spot on with this. I don't want to derail the conversation too much from the Boker awesomeness that we have going on here, but I will say that we know there is community demand for Sypderco exclusives and that we are actively working to make something happen...
Aug 30, 2016
Seelen
321
Aug 30, 2016
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Jonas, that's understandable. It doesn't ruin the knife or anything...and luckily, it's such a slim and light-use design, it would look perfectly at home without a clip. I may simply remove it to look like the classic folders.
More than anything though, I'm excited about the doors this might open up. Now you get to go back to them and say, "We sold 1,000 of your knives in two days." That has to raise some eyebrows at the very least.
By the way, I have been lurking on mass drop forever but never actually bought anything until this...and it's because of the shipping times. Saving money is great and all, but I value high-quality and unique items above saving a few bucks. That's why I finally gave in and went for this drop. If you guys keep working on this process, and coming out with cool exclusive knives with community input, you'll continue to have my money.
Thanks again. I look forward to receiving my knife. Hopefully I'll have almost forgotten about it by then; it'll be like a present to myself!
Aug 30, 2016
yiri
237
Aug 30, 2016
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haha mate I could flip 'em on eBay and cash in ;)
Seriously though, that's great news!
Aug 30, 2016
MDDoge
295
Aug 30, 2016
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I've always said there's two ways to look at Massdrop's long shipping schedule: Everything takes too long to arrive, or it all takes just the right amount of time to feel like a gift from the past.
Personally I don't use Massdrop for items I need immediately, that's just a silly idea. I agree the long shipping time can seem off-putting in this age of Amazon Prime, but as you mentioned, that's where the Massdrop exclusives come in. And I enjoy the community, so a little wait turns into interesting, anticipation driven discussions. Glad you could join us for this one ;]
Aug 30, 2016
Verwilderd
335
Aug 30, 2016
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You need a friend in the us to buy and hold all your stuff. Then simply take a vacation here and collect everything. Might be easier to get it in. Although not cheaper, you get a trip out of it.
Aug 30, 2016
Massdrop really shines with custom/made to order items though. The argument of "oh, I'll get this on amazon for $10 bucks more" is valid for some drops, and many people want instant gratification over saving a few dollars. But custom items are a whole different story, and the true "group buys" that Massdrop runs are great and FAR better than a lot of buys run from enthusiast forums, if nothing else you can almost always get money back from MD, unlike forum buys.
So items like this knife are fantastic, and in my opinion completely worth the wait. Items with community input are becoming more popular here it seems like, which is also very exciting.
Aug 30, 2016
Seelen
321
Aug 31, 2016
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Yes, that's exactly how I feel. I actually came to mass drop because of the custom keyboard community, there have been so many awesome sets that originated here and were difficult/impossible to find elsewhere.
I can't say I'm as into knives as many of the people here, though I am always interested in learning new things, and I am a very aesthetic person. A very clean looking knife with just the right shape and contrast is a beautiful thing.
Hell, I didn't even know what S35VN was until this thread. I've never owned anything "special" like this. My last good knife was a Kershaw Avalanche with 440C. It was tough as hell and lasted ~10 years, but it was more of a workhorse. Now, I've been expanding my criteria to be both reliable/durable, and pretty.
Can you guys tell me, how hard do you think an S35VN blade is to sharpen? From what I hear, the blade shape can dictate the difficulty....I have a co-worker with a spyderco sharp maker and it made my shitty Kershaw Filter able to cut paper with one hand. I was thinking about using that again.
I noticed you guys, and other sites, talking about that ken onion edition belt sharpener. It's a little pricey, though something I'd be willing to invest in if it's easy to use.
Out of the two, can anybody give me some advice for which a beginner should use? I am really terrible at "eyeballing" things, if that makes sense. I'm good with computers and mental stuff, not art. Holding a blade at a particular angle while sharpening is only going to come with a lot of practice.
Anyways, I'm going to continue to research, but if one of you guys can weigh in about what sharpening s35vn is like, that would be really cool.
I've been looking at r/knife club and wikipedia and I've been finding a lot of interesting information. to me, half the reason it's so cool is how they are all made, materials used, who designed them, etc etc.
Can I ask, why do people stay away from r/knives? Is it a bunch of tacticool douches? I'm all about EDC and having the tool you need when you need it, but 95% of the people carrying a firearm just waiting for a SELF DEFENSE SCENARIO in their upscale suburb are fuckin silly; I can only imagine that those doing so with a knife are even worse.*
*I don't want to start a ton of shit with that comment, there are plenty of valid carry scenarios. I just don't want to deal with the paranoid types, they tend to be very out of touch with reality, and I am first and foremost a scientist and a skeptic.
Aug 31, 2016
KTEN
62
Sep 1, 2016
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method of sharpening depends on your gear but I find the readymade easy solutions expensive for what they are with limits like can't reprofile with most or alter angles from the ones designed in. Stuff like the SM get good reviews and they will put edge on stuff really well. Freehand isn't a must but is surprisingly easy when get knack. You can either make or buy angle guides to keep that angle for you though so even if you have freehand sharpener you can still use them assisted.
Splashing on a set of waterstones (excuse the pun) is not worth it for many unless you sharpen a lot. Same for diamond bench plates and shapton glass etc. They are all great but try them out before jump in is my advice. I have wide range of big stones is hard and soft bonds in grit from 240 to 8000 but most wouldn't sharpen as much as I do in a year in their whole life so it is waste of cash if wont use it so if you dive into stones get a single medium bond 1000/6000 combi job to start. Most I teach to sharpen use them and never find need for anything else.
The cheap version is use wet&dry silicon carbide sandpaper (the black stuff for wet sanding). Doesn't need to be JJ flexi cloth backed expensive paper, regular cheap stuff is fine. Cut suitable size strip and wet and stick to piece of glass, marble worktop etc etc and good to go. It is cheap if you don't need to sharpen much and often, plus you can go to really fine grits most wouldn't get the use out of in stones equivalent.
Try hold blade steady at the angle you want and rock body with locked wrist/arms instead of doing work with shoulder/elbow/wrist. With s35vn you want to keep pressure light as you can and take your time. Slow and lots of passes otherwise carbide tearout and problems at the apex from too much pressure will make it seem you get nowhere. Lots of light work and you never undo your hard work, and the upside is you wont need to sharpen it for much longer than easier to sharpen steels so you get that time on sharpening back in actual use time. Never found anyone who couldn't do it when taught them to use waterstones; they can get shave sharp edge from complete beginners in one session and get waaay over that high polish perfect edges after few sessions practise. Look on the likes of Cliff Stamp's site for decent sharpening and steel info, reddit and like isfull of so much fantasy. Want to know about blade steels then Cliff is your new God, although his honesty upsets the likes of the /r/knives crowd especially when he backs it up with both science and controlled testing. Most the time "steel" differences talked about are due to geometry and sharpening skills and wrong things used. Steel does make a difference thus I work with a few different types for that very reason. Just there is a lot of rubbish info on the matter.
Sep 1, 2016
KTEN
62
Sep 1, 2016
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also after you get good enough on your sharpening gear whatever you choose, you can add stropping into your routine. You often get a much higher finished edge and it often keeps hair popping edge with just a 60sec touch up strop so you need to take the knife back to the sharpener less and less. If you go with stones though I'd say do it after you are used to them as it [strop] has downside of covering poor [sharpening] technique and getting out of the habit [of bad sharpening] is easy early on. The good habit being something anyone even total sausage fingers like one of my family can manage so you should have no prob as no way you're as dexterity lacking as them (trust me) and she can get stuff scary sharp freehand now.
If you are in the UK give me a shout as I have stacks of stropping compound knocking around I can send you free save buying any. You can use expensive or specialist microgrit stuff but the cheaper engineering polish I use on mops for polishing whole blades after my final grind and sand but it works on strops too belive it or not. Most the ferric polish types including steelbrite/blue or chrome ox green for ferrous metals (aka iron and steels), or any high colour mid cut for ferrous polishing compound stuff works and they tend to be £4/$6 ish for 600g to 800g bars (you wont use that in a lifetime even with an arsenal on stropping). There are some for high cut and mid colour for use on modern stainresistants (eg. this knife) but on stropping it doesn't make as much difference and they cost a bit more. I do notice a SLIGHT difference to the any steels types in intended use as they tend to be bit faster. After sharpening even if it looks mirror finish to the eye the strop pass can get the microscopic scratches out so no burrs visible at magnification even. You can get into the 1micron grit perfect edge game and fancy compounds but it is addictive for little return on investment. You'll notice difference between the stropped and unstropped edge, and it is easier to just "top up" and keep it working sharp for longer; once you get into the 0.5 to 1 micron specialist stuff (and most are lot of cash for tiny bottle of liquid) etc with 6 strop sequence with alt compounds the realworld difference shrinks fast going into pursuit of holy grail of edges and it isn't important unless you're doing eye surgery with a pocketknife imho. Kind of difference that may show in artificial tests in real life is things like can chop 10Kg of food before lose shaving sharp edge compared to 10.5Kg, or can cut 55min worth of cardboard boxes vs 60min worth before too blunt on a perfect edge so I stopped bothering with the perfection quest.
Sep 1, 2016
Seelen
321
Sep 1, 2016
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Thanks so much. I really appreciate the detailed response. Lots of great info. I'm actually not in the UK, but thanks for the offer.
I was really curious about stropping, thanks for clearing that up! I am interested in getting some stones someday simply because it seems fun/therapeutic to do it freehand....to start with I'm looking at getting a Sharp Maker just to get the concept down, and grab a strop down the road once i start getting the edge right.
I will definitely check out Cliff's site. I am really into audio and video, so I am no stranger so weeding out snake oil. The only thing that concerns me is empirical evidence and verifiable fact. I'm not the type to buy into silly claims without hearing them backed up first.
Again, thanks for taking the time to respond to me. You've been very helpful!
Sep 1, 2016
MDDoge
295
Sep 1, 2016
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100% agree on your description of Cliff. He can be a bit off-putting, but even Sal seems to respect his knowledge of steel, to the point of asking for his advice on heat treating occasionally. My own limited interaction with Cliff corroborates this; his level of expertise is only rivaled by his blunt candor. Or maybe I should say he's sharp enough to cut through the bullshit? Never mind, the point is he knows his stuff, so I agree that as long as you can accept Cliff's demeanor (looking at you Bladeforums) he's a great source of information.
As a side note, your advice on sharpening wasn't directed at me but I appreciate it anyways, you're definitely experienced. I bought a small set of diamond bench stones because I have a tendency to overestimate my need; bit of a waste but I do like having the options. That being said, your suggestion of a 1000/6000 combination stone is spot on (though I might recommend something more like 700/2000 if you can find it, just personal preference. No idea if that combination exists though). I have exactly the problem you describe though, I over-compensate for my sub-par sharpening with a strop. I also think I've experienced the tear-out you mentioned with some of my D2 knives, so I'll have to look out for that. Interestingly, that's exactly a topic I discussed with Cliff.
I can't imagine having enough sharpening experience to know the particular methods for each individual steel (or abrasive, if that also changes the technique), and I doubt I ever will, so I wonder, is there a method that is generally applicable to all steels or do I just have to research each one individually (or will it never matter unless I sharpen as often as you do?)
Speaking of which, are you a professional knife maker or sharpener?
Sep 1, 2016
KTEN
62
Sep 1, 2016
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No I'm not a pro sharpener. Not something I trained in at all, my background and education is nothing to do with craft and actually science based (biochem to be specific) but I switched into IT with some graphic design on side. Blade and leathercraft was only a hobby until few years ago when started turning into part time trade, through word of mouth mainly as people had seen stuff or heard through others etc led to lot of requests/demand plus friends or local community I'd done stuff for pushed me to offer it as service due to being happy with both product and process. Still consider myself a novice with MUCH to learn so it irks me when I see stuff with silly markup or poorly done (design, materials etc) from those who should know better.
The sharpening I do a lot of for blades I make as well as my own tools I use, especially leatherwork and woodwork stuff (and blades/tools of those I share workshop with). I sharpen regularly in batches anyway so if my stones are loaded from doing my things doing extra stuff for others is very easy thus I don't charge but will accept donation for large lot of stuff. I also sharpen for people who've had knives from me and want it sharp again or anyone in local community who has decent steels and knows I do that.
You'd be surprised how many professional chefs (not just su chefs but head chefs even) etc cannot sharpen btw, lot of people I notice only know soft steel that need constant steeling/ceramic rod swiping to unroll the rolled soft edge. When it comes to actual sharpening (eg. not using a steel) many seem lost when some proper heattreated decent steel knife they'd bought loses the factory/initial edge and they find their steel/ceramic rod wont help. By decent steel I don't mean stuff like vanadis 4e, k390 and so on but simply anything that will take an edge and hold a working edge for intended task duration, so in my book even 8Cr13MoV is decent in many uses if HT properly.
Sep 1, 2016
KTEN
62
Sep 1, 2016
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as for the knowledge of what for what steel like I say I am far from expert and not a sharpening expert. That said I'd say there is little difference in general (there will be exceptions there always is) and what I do on one type is same/similar on another save for time it takes. Thing to learn is more edge geometry for the task, so a kitchen slicer would get different angles and stuff* to an outdoor gen purpose blade or work knife. Stuff* meaning stuff like convexing the edge or secondary microbevel, true zeroing like common in kitchen slicers not used in heavy chopping and so on.
This is assuming the right steel is chosen for the intended purpose. When I start designing a blade I start with its function. This dictates what steel is used as well as the other stuff like blade shape, grind style, handle shape/material, weight, cost field servicability and so on which are related. You wouldn't make a kitchen knife intended for very delicate slicing or daikon paper shaving etc out of a ultrahigh carbide pm steel formulated for toughness and wear resistance because you'd have problems with such a shallow angle edge due to carbide stability for one. Ignore the carbide tearout = microscopic sawteeth since it is NOT true. I mean true in real world use. Although it is actually a fact it does, it makes very little difference, Cliff goes into that somewhere I believe.
So I'd stretch to say despite not qualified to say this, if lets say a kitchen knife is designed properly for a particular specific task no matter what steel it is you'd sharpen it the same. If you didn't it was made in an unsuitable steel probably. Again there may be exceptions of course. There are some cavats in that stuff like doing lots of high wear resistance modern PM's on soft bond stones intended for pure carbons like shirogami or low alloy steels will both take longer and wear the stones quick so you need to true them more often. Some technical stuff like carbide hardness could come into play but you're getting into the realms of theory over real world performance or specialist real world uses and so on.
Sep 1, 2016
MDDoge
295
Sep 2, 2016
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What's telling is I've heard both sides, that large carbide particles in the edge creates a toothy edge, and that when carbide particles are torn out it leaves a toothy edge. It's certainly possible both are true, but it just sounds to me like people are just having a hard time sharpening and looking for answers :P Everything you said makes sense to me based on my limited knowledge and discussion with Cliff, so thanks again for being willing to share your information.
Sep 2, 2016
Kaozer
274
Sep 2, 2016
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KTEN covered it a lot better than i ever could. But ill share a bit of personal experience. I personally use a sharpmaker from spyderco. Very very easy to get a good edge and usually strop my blade to maintain said edge. I dont have experience with s35vn but i know s30v fairly well and they are very similar. It isnt that hard to sharpen and seeing the shape of the blade it should be pretty straight foward to get a great edge on it.
Sep 2, 2016
sgrantcarr
1
Sep 3, 2016
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To answer your question about r/knives... It only has one mod who went on a power-trip once and started banning people that didn't agree with him. Several folks got together after that and made r/knifeclub, which has multiple mods as a sort of checks and balances system. It's just more friendly and welcoming in general, imo.
Sep 3, 2016
AdeptusIgnus
4
Sep 7, 2016
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Try being someone who heavily trains in a martial art with bladed weapons, and then the mall ninjas want to geek out about their "tactical carry" scenarios.
>_________________________________________________>
Rule #1 of Knife Fighting DON'T Rule #2 of Knife Fighting DON'T Rule #3 You are going to get cut.
Sep 7, 2016
MrWolf
24
Sep 25, 2016
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once upon a time ago there was 4 or 5 mods. You would get banned for no reason at all, and there would be no response as to why. That was about 6 years ago. Second time I got banned asking a question I stayed away from that sub until last year and found knifeclub.
Sep 25, 2016
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