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Showing 1 of 16 conversations about:
Daisy_Cutter
1288
Sep 27, 2017
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This is a reaaaaaally sexy looking knife. However, I've noticed that the Cold Steel Master Hunter in CPM 3V can be had for around $120 and the Lion Steel M4 in M390 can be had for about $155, both of which are cheaper than the respective 3V and M390 versions on this drop, and they seem to be comparable bushcraft knives.
Anyone care to sell me on the Guardian 4? (Note: I want very much to like it. It looks sooooo goooood)
Sep 27, 2017
Sling
53
Sep 27, 2017
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Daisy_CutterThe Cold Steel knives in 3V are a real bargain when you get them at highly discounted prices. There are some suggestions that CS runs its 3V pretty hard, and therefore they aren't as tough as other 3V, but I don't have any direct knowledge, and it's still going to be very good steel. If you want to get some 3V at the cheapest price you can, CS is probably the way to go. However, the master hunter is still a rubber-handled knife with a coated blade. 3D micarta slabs on a stonewashed blade (as per the G4) are considered upgrades. Micarta is more comfortable for extended use, and virtually indestructable, and a uncoated blade will cut with less friction. Fit and finish will be higher on the Bradford, and the heat treat is a known quantity. The M4 is in M390. F&F will be comparable, if not even better - the leather sheath is probably a little better than the G4, and you have a choice of attractive wood handles. If you want a high quality 4" blade in M390 for the lowest price, then the M4 is probably the way to go. However, you might still opt for the G4 on design grounds - it's a larger knife (4.25 vs 3.75 cutting edge), a leaf shape rather than a traditional drop point, and has a more sculpted handle with a deep finger choil - the M4 handle is again more traditional. For me personally, the G4 is just about the perfect design for a compact 4" blade. I really like the leaf shape. I might, however, grind off the last 0.5" of the handle (after the second pin) just to make it even more compact. The only downside for me is the sheath, but it may work for you - it's light and functional. Also, the G4 it doesn't have the very latest 3V heat treat protocols like the knives being made by Survive! and CPK, but it's a challenge to get hold of knives by either of those makers, they are more expensive, and the new HT shouldn't make much difference in a knife this size.
Sep 27, 2017
eksuen
748
Sep 27, 2017
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SlingMinor point, but per the specs listed on Brad's site, the G4 has a cutting edge of 4.125 inches.
Anyway, I own a G4 and it's one of the most comfortable knives I've used. While the drops here on Massdrop are limited to a sabre grind, I like that Brad offers different grind options when ordering direct, albeit at full price. Given the quality of these knives, I think it's worth it regardless. And at this price, it's quite the deal.
Sep 27, 2017
Daisy_Cutter
1288
Sep 28, 2017
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SlingGreat breakdown, thanks!
As an aside, which Guardian 4 would you stick in your bug-out bag? 3V or M390?
Sep 28, 2017
Sling
53
Sep 28, 2017
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Daisy_CutterFor a BOB, I would go with 3V all the way, just for that extra sense of security if you have to put it through rough treatment. Don't get me wrong - you could put a M390 blade through a lot and probably never have any issues, but why not have that extra bit of insurance? The only real advantage of M390 is if you expected the blade to be left in wet conditions for long periods of time (rust isn't a problem for 3V in normal use), or if you wanted that extra bit of edge retention (but then you run the risk that it'll be harder to field sharpen if you do need to).
Sep 28, 2017
JonasO
197
Sep 28, 2017
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Daisy_CutterThe Guardian 4 in black wash just look sexier. And it comes with micarta scales for a bit extra (which is my favourite) over G10 or wood.
Sep 28, 2017
Daisy_Cutter
1288
Sep 28, 2017
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JonasOInteresting, you prefer micarta to G10? You don't find it too rough on the hands?
Sep 28, 2017
JonasO
197
Sep 28, 2017
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Daisy_CutterNo I don't. But I typically like gripper knives. The carbon looks cool, but I found that way too slippery on other knives I tried. G10 is my second favourite for grip but micarta is at the top. And with heavy use, it will get a really nice frayed look to it which I really appreciate.
Sep 28, 2017
Daisy_Cutter
1288
Sep 28, 2017
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SlingThanks that's super helpful, and I was thinking along similar lines. All things considered, would you say there's a significant difference in edge retention between 3V and M390? If so, does that difference matter in real world usage?
Sep 28, 2017
Daisy_Cutter
1288
Sep 28, 2017
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JonasONice, I do appreciate that worn-in aesthetic. After prolonged use though, do you find either Micarta or G-10 becoming slippery at points of wear? This was my experience with a composite handled knife many years ago, but I don't know if that was Micarta, G-10 or something else.
Sep 28, 2017
Tigerman
412
Sep 29, 2017
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Daisy_CutterMy perspective is that they're all great knives in their own way, and if you could hold them you'd probably prefer one. But, since we're shopping on the net, the thing that separates them is who makes them. Cold Steel knives are made in a factory somewhere; Lion Steel, a factory in Italy; and Bradford, in USA partly by Brad Larkin himself. You can also do some research on the owners. There are some colourful characters and stories in the knife industry. See what appeals to you! (I'm not saying made anywhere is better than anywhere else. Personally I like to support small businesses and people who come onto these forums to talk about what they make.) That's my take on choices like these. Also see my blah about steel: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/bradford-knives-guardian-4/talk/1754485
Sep 29, 2017
Daisy_Cutter
1288
Sep 29, 2017
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TigermanGreat perspective, thanks! From all reports Brad seems to be an all round great guy, and all things being equal I do like to support smaller outfits where I can put a face to the product.
Regarding steel, good points in your other comment, which I agree with! Toughness is frequently overlooked, and 3V really addresses that (though at the cost of a little edge retention and corrosion resistance). On the other hand, I've recently read elsewhere that for a sub-5' fixed blade, 3V's toughness is not really necessary, and M390 is good enough.
I'm beginning to suspect that these super-premium steels are more than adequate for virtually anything a 4' blade will be put through, and the particular qualities in which they excel will almost never get put to the test in normal usage. After all, ESEE still mainly uses 1095, which is markedly inferior than both 3V and M390 on pretty much all fronts, and their knives are still perfectly usable.
Sep 29, 2017
Tigerman
412
Sep 29, 2017
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Daisy_CutterWell said! Oh and ESEE - mmm... I'd say life isn't complete without at least one ESEE knife.
Sep 29, 2017
eksuen
748
Sep 29, 2017
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Daisy_CutterRegarding 3V not necessary for sub-5" fixed: that's interesting. I guess that explains why the Guardian 5 and 6 are only offered in 3V.
Sep 29, 2017
Tigerman
412
Sep 30, 2017
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Daisy_CutterWe often forget that the blade grind has at least as much influence on edge holding. And, if a blade is ground down really thin, then the edge that you need to sharpen is much thinner. Imagine sharpening a razor vs. sharpening an axe. I have a carbon steel kitchen knife with a very thin edge that literally takes a couple of strokes on each stone to get really sharp. Since it's a pleasure to sharpen, I don't feel reluctant, and it's always shaving sharp. Ironically, my pocket knives with fat blades and fancy tough steel usually get really blunt before I summon up the time to sharpen them.
Sep 30, 2017
Daisy_Cutter
1288
Sep 30, 2017
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TigermanOh absolutely. I have the same experience. I have a set of carbon steel Tsukiji Masamoto kitchen knives that sharpen up real quick and go through food like nobody's business. They don't hold an edge extremely long, but I've found that a quick strop after every use lets them go months without touching a whetstone. When the whetstones have to come out, it's still an enjoyable experience because of how responsive the steel is.
On the other end of the spectrum, I have a Fallkniven F1d with a convex grind, 4.5mm thick blade. Though it pops off arm hair and will probably continue doing so for a good long while, it's still a royal pain to push through cardboard thanks to all that thickness behind the edge. I hardly use it because I dread the day that edge eventually dulls, and I have to spend ages trying to hone that convex edge by feel, hoping I don't screw it up.
For most day-to-day cutting tasks (opening boxes and packages, breaking down cardboard, etc), I find that the full flat grind on my Spyderco Native 5 S110V hits the sweet spot. Despite S110V being notorious for being hard to sharpen, for regular maintenance I've found it responds very well to stropping with diamond paste.
Sep 30, 2017
Daisy_Cutter
1288
Sep 30, 2017
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eksuenInteresting! This is a good indication that Brad Larkin knows what he's doing.
Sep 30, 2017
Tigerman
412
Sep 30, 2017
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Daisy_CutterOk, now I worry you'd feel I was lecturing you on what you already knew. That's a great description of three different knives. I've never tried a fallkniven... I worry my life is not complete.
Sep 30, 2017
Daisy_Cutter
1288
Sep 30, 2017
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TigermanNot at all! I'm glad I'm not alone in not liking to sharpen "indestructible" knives.
Hm Fallkniven... I like my F1d with its laminated CoS steel. It seems really solid and well-constructed, but then I haven't really had the chance to put it to the test. I also worry that Fallkniven's flagship fixed blades (F1, S1, A1) are overpriced and behind the curve. Their prices have gone up dramatically over recent years but they're still made with VG10. VG10 was considered a superb steel 10 years ago, but apparently it has issues that have all been addressed by more modern steels.
Honestly, if I were in a real survival situation, I think I would want a couple of Moras and a fine/medium diamond whetstone. That would probably be the best balance of usability and ease of maintenance. I would not want to try and hone a convex edge in the field.
Sep 30, 2017
Tigerman
412
Sep 30, 2017
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Daisy_CutterThat's interesting to hear. I've never tried a mora either. And agreed about VG10.
Sep 30, 2017
JonasO
197
Oct 9, 2017
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Daisy_CutterI haven't experienced any of my G10 or micarta knives become more slippery over time, but maybe I just don't use them as hard as you do. Maybe the slippery points of wear that you experience are ingrained oils from your hands? If so, maybe some degreaser might return the micarta to its original state. Or maybe sand the smooth patches with some rough grit will help too.
Oct 9, 2017
Daisy_Cutter
1288
Oct 9, 2017
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JonasOGood thinking! It could well have been grease.
This was actually a machete I carried during military service. It had passed through many hands before mine, and I highly doubt any of my personal knives will see anywhere near the same levels of use or abuse.
Oct 9, 2017
JonasO
197
Oct 9, 2017
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Daisy_CutterI'd say that sweat, greasy hands and grit would have smoothed the handle over time which would explain why it was super smooth. I'm pretty sure you'd be able to fix that with a clean and surface treatment. Or new scales! :-)
Oct 9, 2017
Daisy_Cutter
1288
Oct 9, 2017
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JonasOBy now it's probably been retired from service! If not though, I wish I could pass on your advice to the poor cadet who's slogging through the jungle with that thing on his belt.
Oct 9, 2017
Tigerman
412
Oct 9, 2017
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Daisy_CutterI have had micarta get smooth, dark and less grippy, after it got grease and soot rubbed in. Later I scrubbed the bejeezus out of it with detergent and it came back to looking and feeling surprisingly fresh. But as you said, none of my knives have seen anywhere near what you saw. I reckon micarta is more receptive to change since the holes are larger. It seems to get dirty easier but clean up easier too. I'm curious how the carbon handle on this Guardian 4 will work. When it gets wet it seems to get really grippy, almost sticking to my skin, but I haven't used much, I only tried some quick tests in the kitchen. I fear it can't be as practical as micarta.
Oct 9, 2017
Daisy_Cutter
1288
Oct 9, 2017
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TigermanI ultimately went with the G10 on this one. Looked too gorgeous to my eyes to pass up!
The carbon looked interesting too, I can't say I've ever seen carbon fibre done in that particular pattern. Let me know how it pans out!
Oct 9, 2017
Tigerman
412
Oct 9, 2017
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Daisy_CutterWill do!
Oct 9, 2017
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