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azendel
30
Mar 6, 2014
Hey, I have an audioengine N22 amplifier, do you think that would be a good amp for these speakers? http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Amplifier/N22-Desktop-Audio-Amplifier
Also, I love the amp, and if you are building one, I would think to look into that design and specs. Its really great with a variety of speakers!
Sonido
60
Mar 6, 2014
azendelI noticed this N22 amp has a headphone out, but upon further research, it has a separate headphone amp section that works for all headphones. @CEntrance I really hope if you guys do decide to build in a headphone output, that it will draw 100% of the power of the speaker amp and not use a separate headphone amp section. Drawing directly from a speaker amp is what makes it sound amazing with planars. Now, I'm sure doing this would make it less versatile for all headphones, but the headphone amp market at that price point (~$200) is very saturated, and, with all due respect, it would be difficult to create a very notable speaker and headphone amp at that price point. But not many speaker amps for headphones at that price, other than the Emotiva. Even the Lepai at $20 makes the HE-500 sound really good imo, and provides that speaker amp slam for planars. The problem with the Lepai is that it requires balanced cables for headphones to work or it will short and create magic smoke, hence my original question on what your implementation on the grounding will be. Of course should you decide to output 100% of the speaker amp power through the headphone output, you wouldn't want people to be plugging in just any headphones. More sensitive ones like IEMs may blow up. Perhaps adding resistors for attenuation is the answer. People in that link on the Emotiva have discussed putting resistors on the binding posts to attenuate the volume and give more headroom. Now resistors will mess up the frequency response in headphones without a flat impedance curve, and also mess up damping factor for dynamic headphones, but planar magnetic headphones have a flat impedance and damping factor is not an issue with planar magnetic technology.
Some more information on planar magnetics and damping factor: http://www.head-fi.org/t/617902/effects-of-damping-factor-on-planar-magnetics-orthodynamics
azendelYep, that's what we are talking about. But we are thinking, like, 4-5 times smaller yet. Really small.
SonidoI see an issue with using a standard 1/4" jack to pump out 25W per channel. Could we use a different jack? What about balanced cables? Is that a thing with planars?
If our HiFI-M8 is any indication, many people like to re-cable their headphones for balanced operation. This way, we could avoid the unfortunate inevitability of people plugging IEMs into the 1/4" jack and blowing them up to pieces...
Evilhippie
35
Mar 6, 2014
CEntranceUsing a 4 Pin XLR jack wouldn't be a bad idea, as most people who are attempting to hook up their headphones to speaker taps are going balanced anyway to safely use with most amps, barring special cases like the Emotiva Mini-x. While I do agree with the previous poster that a 1/4" jack would be convenient, if safety is a concern using a 4-pin jack is probably a better idea.
However, I don't believe that most people looking for a 1/4" jack in such a product would even attempt to plug their IEMs in. Judging by the number of people who are modifying 1/4" jacks into their Mini-x, there's clearly a number of people looking for that setup as well. Considering most people aren't even looking for these types of amps to power dynamic headphones even, I doubt it would take more than a strongly worded disclaimer to keep people from plugging their sensitive phones into the jack. Of course, a 4 pin XLR jack would eliminate this problem completely, but may be a pain for some, especially for mini-x users who are running single-ended setups (running everything balanced myself).
Sonido
60
Mar 6, 2014
CEntranceThat would be a good compromise. Not as ubiquitous as the 1/4" plug, but lessens the chance of people blowing up unsuitable headphones. Of course, many headphones don't come standard with XLR cabling. I know Hifiman does sell 4-pin XLR cables for their headphones. Not sure about Class D technology, but if you can't avoid separate grounds without blowing the amp up, XLR may be the only way to go. I know though the reason the Lepai doesn't get used much for headphones is because it requires balanced operation, and it also requires an adapter from speaker taps to XLR such as the HE-Adapter from Hifiman. Custom cabling and adapter for a $20 amp just doesn't sit well with audiophiles. Funny thing about us audiophiles, we are driven by price; the higher the price, the better it must be, and we'll psychologically convince ourselves as well when listening. Give an amp a proper balanced output, give it a balanced input, and it's okay to charge whatever. I really hope this stays low in price though, but you'd be surprised when people pass on your amp just because they'll believe a $250 balanced amp can't truly be good.
But anyways, making the headphone out XLR is better than no headphone out at all, but there's still the matter of needing an XLR cable for your headphones. The way cables are priced, a $150 cable plus a $250 amp puts it outside of value range, and opens up more competitors' options. Also, the cheaper offerings of planar magnetic headphones (HE-400, HE-500, LCD-2) from companies like Hifiman and Audeze doesn't even include the XLR cable. And Alpha Dogs make you choose TRS or XLR. So people owning those would have to buy a separate XLR cable. Those owning the higher end planars (HE-6, LCD-X, LCD-3) that come with a balanced 4-pin XLR cable would likely prefer multi-thousand dollar amps instead.
That's my take on this anyways. In my opinion, a standard 1/4" would give the most ubiquity and cater to people with midrange planar magnetics looking for a value amp. But of course you don't want people who don't know what works with this special headphone jack blowing up their headphones. If you can make it safe for all headphones through resistor attenuation that would be the best in my opinion. Even if it won't sound good for dynamic headphones, and only work well for planars, at least it's not blowing up people's headphones. Heh, if you really feeling ambitious and want to please everyone, add a second 1/4" jack that's set up with a discrete headphone amp like the N22, and label it appropriately, one for planar magnetics only (still have this resistor attenuated to prevent damage), the other for everything else. That way people can't complain the headphone out sucks for their headphones because they're not using planar magnetics, and give negative reviews even though they're not using it correctly.
Maybe at the end of the day, it's best to not have a headphone out at all, but have it have common grounding, so people can use it the way they do with the Emotiva with a $20 cable to go from speaker tap to 1/4" jack. (http://www.head-fi.org/t/629352/he-500-lcd2-d5000-dt770-sr80-on-a-speaker-amp-emotiva-mini-x-a-100-project/2955#post_10111998) Maybe make it easy for modders to add their own 1/4" jack: stub out internal wires for this mod, and have steps to do this mod on your website, with the purpose of use with planars and a disclaimer written out. I figure anyone who could open up an amp and perform such a mod will be informed enough to use the proper headphone for the amp. Or maybe have the 1/4" jack hidden and requires taking off a plate or something to reveal it. Once again eliminates people who don't know what they're doing or skip reading the manual and any disclaimers.
I really hope you do consider this option! Planar magnetic headphones are becoming quite popular in the Head-Fi community, with the recent releases of the Audeze LCD-X and LCD-XC, and the MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs. Hifiman is coming out with the HE-400i and HE-560 this or next month. Oppo has one coming out in the PM-1, and I think Fostex is even redesigning their classic T50RP.
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