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santoskuma
17
Nov 16, 2016
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the price is insane.
Nov 16, 2016
pwade3
329
Nov 16, 2016
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It's expensive, but it's not unjustified.
Nov 16, 2016
Juka
180
Nov 16, 2016
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What is the justification? It is small form factor and doesn't even include cherry mx as standard keys, that should have dropped the price. Also 100+ just for key caps lmao, not even PBTs
Nov 16, 2016
pwade3
329
Nov 16, 2016
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The justification is that this clearly isn't some easy-to-machine design.
And GMK caps are always expensive ffs.
Nov 16, 2016
vaxus7
97
Nov 16, 2016
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You got too much $ to burn.
Nov 16, 2016
pwade3
329
Nov 16, 2016
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I haven't even committed to this, I'm just saying that just because this is expensive doesn't mean it's unfairly priced.
Nov 16, 2016
vaxus7
97
Nov 16, 2016
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It reminds me of WhiteFox which cost me $210 or so, and VA68 as well. But this one has to go up to $300+ for similar configuration.
Nov 16, 2016
pwade3
329
Nov 16, 2016
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Sure, they're all aluminum cases, but neither of those two have the plate integrated into the case itself.
I'm no expert, but I'm gonna guess that's not cheap to do.
Nov 16, 2016
Vigrith
4092
Mech Keys Moderator
Nov 16, 2016
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You should probably leave before you start seeing the $700 boards and $200+ GMK full compatibility sets that pop up elsewhere. You can educate yourself on what the justification is if you'd like, but given the way you just worded that one reply I'm fairly certain you will not accept it one way or another, probably best to not bother, just leave it be and enjoy the boards you do have/care for and can/want to pay for.
Everyone is money gated, so long as there are buyers you will see things go for prices you find absurd, here and anywhere. Unless you are Warren Buffett you will need to accept that and work accordingly with your needs as well as means. If you don't understand/need this, let it be.
Nov 16, 2016
DukeDimwit
126
Nov 16, 2016
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The White Fox was a fantastic deal that also benefitted from economy of scale - thousands of units were produced, which brought the cost per unit down and made the low price point possible. I could be wrong, but the VA68 also benefits from having a large company producing it. Again, economies of scale come into play.
Having said that, both use cases that are very cheap and easy to produce. They are not comparable to this at all.
Nov 16, 2016
Juka
180
Nov 16, 2016
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Nah I can justify spending a lot of money on something that actually matters. Fyi 2 of my headphones costs $700 each and 2 of my amp/dacs cost $500 each. I don't mind forking that much since I understand where my money is put on: engineering and RnD. From the replies before me, it seems like the best thing this got for it is the case and backplate? That's just some contractors job IMO defo not worth it.
Nov 16, 2016
pwade3
329
Nov 16, 2016
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Go get a case exactly like this milled for cheaper, please. Oh and get a PCB too while you're at it.
The top case and the plate are one solid piece, based off your reaction, you're not realizing just how uncommon this is. Massdrop had issues getting a quality CNC job done for easy-ass Planck cases IIRC. A design like this isn't cheap to get done right.
It not like this didn't take time and effort to be designed too. I'm pretty sure Skully didn't just pull a case and PCB design out of his ass.
Nov 16, 2016
vaxus7
97
Nov 16, 2016
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They don't seem to come into one piece to me, as they are separable from these pictures. I tend to believe in that economic scale theory partially. Actually, I wish stainless steel cases would be a part of the benchmarks for high-end mechanical keyboards, rather these made of aluminum. Then I'll gladly pay $200+ for the entire board.
Nov 16, 2016
Matt.L
57
Matt - Clueboard
Nov 16, 2016
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The top and bottom of the case are two distinct components, but the plate is integral to the top half of the case.
Nov 16, 2016
Vigrith
4092
Mech Keys Moderator
Nov 16, 2016
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That was the exact opposite of what I was trying to convey, as expected. What matters to you may not matter to the next person and vice versa, if this does not matter to you then let it be, if you do care and want to understand why this costs more than you believe it should then educate yourself - not by replying to me with how much your audio chain costs but by delving into the field yourself. Or don't, in which case this is irrelevant to you which by extension renders your uninformed opinion on the matter completely void and that is perfectly okay.
I'm not here to convince you you should spend money on this or why you should do it. I merely responded to a rash statement that should've had more thought than "lmao" put to it. Continue to allocate your money toward audio equipment rather than mechanical keyboards, no one here should judge you for it, same as you should not judge them.
Perspective.
Nov 16, 2016
Juka
180
Nov 16, 2016
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Uncommon designs doesn't justify pricing, it shouldn't anyways. From the looks of it, this is a pretty doable job. It is just a slab of metal you need to cut at specific points. All you have to do is ensure your measurements are precise. Nothing to it other than finish. PCBs are a two week job at the most. I know this since I have done this before.
Nov 16, 2016
pwade3
329
Nov 16, 2016
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Again, go get it done yourself for cheaper.
I wish you good luck.
Nov 16, 2016
Juka
180
Nov 16, 2016
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Um you brought up $700 keyboards not me, I replied to you about how much my audio cost because I do UNDERSTAND perspective lol No clue how you missed that or the part where I explained it is justifiable to spend so much on an item, which explains how my purchasing decisions work: EDUCATION. Ok I will stop using "lmao" just so your feelings don't get hurt.
Nov 16, 2016
Juka
180
Nov 16, 2016
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Thank you
Nov 16, 2016
Matt.L
57
Matt - Clueboard
Nov 16, 2016
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Hi Juka,
I've been quite closely involved in the development of the Clueboard/Clueboard case and I'd like to share some perspective on the complexity of the manufacturing process and the corresponding benefits.
One of the big distinctions between this case and the norm is that it features an integral switch mounting plate. Typically, cases are essentially frames for the plate, which usually starts as 1.5mm stock, and is usually cut using a 2d fabrication process like laser cutting, water jet cutting, stamping, etc. This design approach has a few draw backs when it comes to the tactility of the product. Specifically, plates tend to be quite flexible due to the thinness/material removal that is mandated by the switch mounting geometries. This means that they can move relative to the case/frame in use, contributing to issues like the dreaded ping, as well as an overall reduction in sensation/feedback from the switches themselves. In the Clueboard, the mounting plate is machined directly into the top case, which starts life as a half inch thick piece of 6061 Aluminum. We remove material where necessary to provide proper clearance and mounting geometries for the switches, and we create local reinforcements wherever practical, some of which are more than twice the nominal thickness of a typical keyboard plate. Additionally, the through holes for the switches are individually profiled using a tiny end mill, driving up machining time, but yielding a fantastic surface finish and precise snap fit geometries.
That isn't where the complex machining ends. For instance, the entire outer profile of the case has been machined using tapered end mills, which are primarily used by the tool and die industry. Rather than using feet that have to be separately installed, the tilt of the keyboard is directly integrated into the case. We have also heavily iterated on the surface finish of the case, arriving at a light bead blast with a slick, satin surface.
In concert, these elements come together to create a keyboard that is, in my opinion, sensorily unparalleled. The tactility and noise of the keyboard are fanastic, the keyboard really does a great job of bringing the best out of any switch you put in it. It is by no means the cheapest keyboard to produce, but that wasn't our goal. Our goal was to create something world class, and I hope that you'll give it a try.
-Matt
Nov 16, 2016
Juka
180
Nov 16, 2016
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Thanks for the excellent insight in your product. You should have that whole thing in the product page. All I got from the current product page is the small form factor, programmable and aluminum plated keyboard. Not much different from other similar small form factor products IMO
Nov 16, 2016
Matt.L
57
Matt - Clueboard
Nov 16, 2016
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Thanks for the feedback Juka. I'll pass it along to the parties that are managing the drop.
-Matt
Nov 16, 2016
sanstitre
257
Nov 17, 2016
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Speaking of that wonderful sound signature, may we get a nice typing sample uploaded somewhere and linked in the description?
Nov 17, 2016
Matt.L
57
Matt - Clueboard
Nov 17, 2016
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We'll try to get you something like that soon.
-Matt
Nov 17, 2016
sanstitre
257
Nov 17, 2016
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Great!
Nov 17, 2016
Neblin7
546
Nov 17, 2016
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After reading that description I'd really like to get some hands on experience with something that has such tight machining tolerances. So tempted. I agree with Juka that you should have more of your above description listed in the products description page, otherwise some consumers won't dig deep enough into comments to find the valuable info you've just listed. Just ask MD to link your above comment into the descriptions page in case some prospective customers would like to know exactly what they are buying. =)
Nov 17, 2016
Matt.L
57
Matt - Clueboard
Nov 19, 2016
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Here is a link to a typing vid with blue switches. I can potentially take one of my board with linear switches/ O-rings if that would be helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtiZoZ0bOJU&feature=youtu.be\
Let me know if you have any other questions.
-Matt
Nov 19, 2016
sanstitre
257
Nov 19, 2016
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Thanks for the typing test. I would not mind another sample with linear switches, as this is the kind I will be using in my clueboard build.
Nov 19, 2016
Matt.L
57
Matt - Clueboard
Nov 19, 2016
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Here is a link to a typing sample that I shot last night. The board has Gateron Blacks with 55g springs and OEM profile PBT caps with thin O-rings.
Nov 19, 2016
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