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RayF
17115
Sep 3, 2018
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Made in El Salvador--currently the Murder Capitol of the World.
Would be very hesitant to purchase anything from this particular country without knowing who is benefiting. El Salvador's two major gangs and what passes for El Salvador's government have been at war for generations and have managed to corrupt nearly every facet of life in one of the poorest countries in Central America. Hard to imagine someone isn't being exploited somewhere along the line of this knives manufacture, delivery and sale. There are plenty of crappy knives in the world to chose from without the possibility inadvertently making someone's life more crappy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/22/el-salvador-worlds-most-homicidal-place
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2018/05/29/el-salvador-special-reaction-forces-gang-war-npw.cnn
Sep 3, 2018
Maugust09
44
Sep 4, 2018
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If youre worried about people being exploited so you can enjoy knives, you should see how theyre exploited so you can eat. I truly hope you don't enjoy bananas. If you live in america like i do, our livestyles only exist thanks to the exploitation of others.
Im just saying, not trying to diminish your point, but if youre worried about knives, there are worse things to buy that exploit people in worde ways.
Sep 4, 2018
RayF
17115
Sep 4, 2018
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Never confuse "Woke" with "Worry", mon ami!
Sep 4, 2018
Maugust09
44
Sep 4, 2018
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I probably don't understand but i suppose thats a fair point. Id imagine most metals come from exploited countries being mined into oblivion anyways.
Sep 4, 2018
RayF
17115
Sep 5, 2018
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I was disagreeing with the under current of your comment. It's sort of runs along the line of "we can't do anything about (fill-in-the-blank) so why worry about it. Or the other line: "Well, everything causes cancer, doesn't it?" Or the much worse: "You only live once" adage used to rationalize idiot-behavior. Not accusing you of any of that, but I was reminded of that kind of thinking. I may not be able to do anything about what's fucked up in the world, but I'm not going to pretend those issues don't exist, or aren't important.
"Know whud'ah mean Vern?"
Sep 5, 2018
Maugust09
44
Sep 5, 2018
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I guess my point was while it is commendable you are cautious about the origins of the materials used in this knife, it seems a bit out of place to mention it here. Perhaps actually contacting the company with your concerns? While people have the option to boycott goods created by exploiting others, this forum isnt really the platform for change, especially under the pretense of unverified claims. Your comment is really just moot and falling on deaf ears here. Im just an internet weinie so i felt the need to understand why you were so adamant about the origins of the knife material...
Not saying you cant fact check yourself and actually try to make real change for the peoole in el salvadore, but otherwise continuing to debating the importance and validity of your comment is fine to!
Sep 5, 2018
RayF
17115
Sep 5, 2018
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This forum is exactly the appropriate place to mention the issue I've raised (and for whatever issue I chose to use it for in the future). Yes, you are an internet weinie, one of many, I might add, and even thought you weren't the audience I was initially addressing, by now even you, and your dim-witted weinie brethren know a little more about the issue (and me) than you were likely to ever discover on your own. If all I've accomplished is that, then I'm half-way certain it was worth our little exchange. If I was able to get any of you to even ponder for a moment where El Salvador is located on the globe, I'd award myself a Teacher of Year pin.
As to your suggestion that anything I've mentioned so far is pretense, or unverified (even after I gave you the fucking links), you have removed that last fig leaf you've been hiding behind, only to reveal your true self, as the sloth-like, knuckle-dragging Cretan I suspected your were all along. I always say: if you walk like, talk like and smell like the Fox-watching, Trump rally attending, fake news subscribing, reality denying, conspiracy theory preferring, dick you sound like--then you must that dick!
See you at the polls this November, Comrade--don't forget your hat ;- )

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Sep 5, 2018
Maugust09
44
Sep 5, 2018
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Lol don't forget your tissues
Sep 5, 2018
RayF
17115
Sep 5, 2018
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I won't--your gonna need 'em.
Sep 5, 2018
Maugust09
44
Sep 5, 2018
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Sorry i meant toilet paper. For your booty burns!
Sep 5, 2018
RayF
17115
Sep 5, 2018
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Like I said, you're gonna need 'em.
Sep 5, 2018
Maugust09
44
Sep 5, 2018
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The ol i am rubber defense eh? Guess i cant beat that. I look forward to seeing the statue they build to you for your bravery in liberating el Salvadore via an empty massdrop forum!
Sep 5, 2018
RayF
17115
Sep 5, 2018
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Yeah, blow me very much, Comrade.
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Sep 5, 2018
Maugust09
44
Sep 5, 2018
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Nooo for real, youre making big changes! The people of el salvadore have benefited greatly from the links you shared and the discussion we had!
Sep 5, 2018
RayF
17115
Sep 5, 2018
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Start'n to think I remember you now from the rally...yup, now I'm sure of it!
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You were the "moran" holding up "go usa" sign!!!
Sep 5, 2018
RayF
17115
Sep 5, 2018
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In that case, let me share a few more with you...
United States DEPARTMENT OF LABOR Bureau Of International Labor Affairs
In 2016, El Salvador made a moderate advancement in efforts to eliminate the worst forms of child labor. The Government approved regulations to facilitate the enforcement of the Special Law Against Trafficking in Persons, including on the referral of criminal child labor cases between law enforcement and social service agencies. The National Council for Children Table 1. Statistics on Children’s Work and Education Figure 1. Working Children by Sector, Ages 5-14 El SalvadorMODERATE ADVANCEMENT and Adolescents designed a mechanism to monitor the
implementation of the National Policy for the Protection
of Children and Adolescents. In addition, the Government
passed the Educated El Salvador Plan, which aims in part to
increase security in schools and improve access to education
for vulnerable groups, including children engaged in child labor. However, children in El Salvador engage in the worst forms of child labor, including in the harvesting of sugarcane and in illicit activities, sometimes as a result of human trafficking. Law enforcement agencies continue to lack sufficient resources to fully enforce child labor laws, and no penalties for child labor violations were issued in 2016.I. PREVALENCE AND SECTORAL DISTRIBUTION OF CHILD LABORChildren in El Salvador engage in the worst forms of child labor, including in the harvesting of sugarcane and in illicit activities, sometimes as a result of human trafficking.(1-6) Table 1 provides key indicators on children’s work and education in El Salvador. ChildrenAgePercentWorking (% and population)Attending School (%)Combining Work and School (%)Primary Completion Rate (%) 5 to 145 to 147 to 14 5.9 (68,431)92.36.1104.6 Agriculture 47.5% Services 38.2%Industry 14.2% Source for primary completion rate: Data from 2014, published by UNESCO Institute for Statistics, 2016.(7) Source for all other data: Understanding Children’s Work Project’s analysis of statistics from Encuesta de Hogares de Propósitos Múltiples (EHPM), 2015.(8)
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El Salvador: Child Labor on Sugar Plantations Foreign Firms Use End Product of Children’s Hazardous Work June 9, 2004 8:00PM EDTBusinesses purchasing sugar from El Salvador, including The Coca-Cola Company, are using the product of child labor that is both hazardous and widespread, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today.Harvesting cane requires children to use machetes and other sharp knives to cut sugarcane and strip the leaves off the stalks, work they perform for up to nine hours each day in the hot sun. Nearly every child interviewed by Human Rights Watch for its 139-page report , “Turning a Blind Eye: Hazardous Child Labor in El Salvador’s Sugarcane Cultivation,” said that he or she had suffered machete gashes on the hands or legs while cutting cane. These risks led one former labor inspector to characterize sugarcane as the most dangerous of all forms of agricultural work.“Child labor is rampant on El Salvador’s sugarcane plantations,” said Michael Bochenek, counsel to the Children’s Rights Division of Human Rights Watch. “Companies that buy or use Salvadoran sugar should realize that fact and take responsibility for doing something about it.” Up to one-third of the workers on El Salvador’s sugarcane plantations are children under the age of 18, many of whom began to work in the fields between the ages of eight and 13. The International Labor Organization estimates that at least 5,000 and as many as 30,000 children under age 18 work on Salvadoran sugar plantations. El Salvador sets a minimum working age of 18 for dangerous occupations and 14 for most other forms of work.Medical care is often not available on the plantations, and children must frequently pay for the cost of their medical treatment. They are not reimbursed by their employers despite a provision in the Salvadoran labor code that makes employers responsible for medical expenses resulting from on-the-job injuries.El Salvador’s sugar mills and the businesses that purchase or use Salvadoran sugar know or should know that the sugar is in part the product of child labor. For example, Coca-Cola Co. uses Salvadoran sugar in its bottled beverages for domestic consumption in El Salvador. The company’s local bottler purchases sugar refined at El Salvador’s largest mill, Central Izalco. At least four of the plantations that supply sugarcane to Central Izalco regularly use child labor, Human Rights Watch found after interviewing workers.When Human Rights Watch brought this information to the attention of Coca-Cola Co., the soft-drink manufacturer did not contradict these findings. Coca-Cola has a code of conduct for its suppliers, known as the “Guiding Principles for Suppliers to The Coca-Cola Company,” but it is narrowly drawn to cover only direct suppliers, which includes sugar mills but excludes plantations. The guiding principles provide, for example, that the Coca-Cola Co.’s direct suppliers “will not use child labor as defined by local law,” but they do not address the responsibility of direct suppliers to ensure that their own suppliers do not use hazardous child labor.“If Coca-Cola is serious about avoiding complicity in the use of hazardous child labor, the company should recognize that its responsibility to ensure that respect for human rights extends beyond its direct suppliers,” said Bochenek.In addition, children who work on sugarcane plantations often miss the first several weeks or months of school. For example, a teacher in a rural community north of the capital San Salvador estimated that about 20 percent of her class did not attend school during the harvest. Other children drop out of school altogether. Some children who want to attend school are driven into hazardous work because it is the only way their families can afford the cost of their education. El Salvador is one of five countries in Latin America to participate in an International Labor Organization Time-Bound Program, an initiative to address the worst forms of child labor. But officials in the Salvadoran Ministry of Labor told Human Rights Watch that most children who cut cane are simply their parents’ “helpers.” Human Rights Watch urged El Salvador’s sugar mills, Coca-Cola Co. and other businesses that purchase Salvadoran sugar to incorporate international standards in their contractual relationships with suppliers and require their suppliers to do the same throughout the supply chain. They should also adopt effective monitoring systems to verify that labor conditions on their suppliers’ sugarcane plantations comply with international standards.
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“There’s exploitation behind every piece of clothing made in El Salvador” Iñaki Makazaga 7 MAR 2017 - 16:18 CET
Montserrat Arévalo, from Mujeres Transformando (El Salvador), during her recent visit to Bilbao. I. M.
El Salvador has more than 200 textile factories located in 17 free zones, and which employ more than 70,000 people. Out of all the workers, 80% are women. Montserrat Arévalo, who heads the association Mujeres Transformando (Women Transforming), has spent nearly two decades denouncing inhumane working conditions, training union leaders, building ties with international organizations and documenting pressure campaigns against brands “that sell a lifestyle that respects the environment, yet exploit their own workers.” Arévalo is in Spain to develop new awareness campaigns about responsible consumption in Europe, in partnership with a group called Paz con Dignidad (Peace with Dignity). “Behind every article of clothing made in El Salvador, there is a story of exploitation,” she claims.Question: What does the average woman who works in El Salvador’s textile industry look like?Answer: At the factories, you have women aged 18 through 35. The extenuating workdays of over 16 hours and the high production targets mean that after the age of 35, these workers are no longer profitable for the industry. So most of them are young, uneducated women and homemakers. Their low education level and precarious situation forces them to work in this sector, as there are no formal job alternatives in the country. Behind every article of clothing, there is a story of exploitation in my country. We need to tell this story in Europe, in order to encourage greater awareness and more responsible consumption that will help change these inhumane production conditions.Does the vulnerability of these women play against them?
After the age of 35, these workers are no longer profitable for the industry
It is no coincidence that the factories are in El Salvador, nor that it is mostly women who work in this sector. There is a perverse breeding ground there: the state is very weak and very permissive when it comes to violations of its people’s rights. It is the state itself that encourages the creation of these companies through economic incentives such as tax exemptions, and that is why they easily look the other way while rights are systematically violated. This complicity between businesses and the state is very difficult for these women to break.Without your presence, would these women be completely alone?We should give things some thought, in order to end state-sponsored competitiveness programs based on precarious jobs for the population. We are now in a favorable period, with a leftist government in power, but we are just now emerging from a culture of complete lack of respect for people, with companies setting up and operating any way they like. We urgently need to implement strong changes to our legislation. The way things stand today, there is a complete culture of zero respect for people’s rights. These factories bring companies millions in revenue, while women work 12 hours to make 1,500 items a day, yet it does not lift them out of poverty.What are your main goals in this process?
The factories bring companies millions in revenue, while women are not lifted out of poverty
Our main goal has always been to organize workers. After 14 years, we have 16 organized workers’ committees in the country. We want them to be increasingly strong, to know their rights and to be able to demand respect for them. We work with them through training and empowerment, and conduct campaigns with a political impact through research and documentation. We have taken reforms to Congress, and now we are contributing new proposals to reform national labor policies.At the same time, you are behind international awareness campaigns.A very important initiative, and one that has a lot of political value, is documenting the track record of transnational brands in our country. Through organized workers, we find out what is happening inside the free zones where women work surrounded by walls, barbed wire, security guards and rifles. We have managed to get women to document which brands are being produced in places where rights are being trampled. The same brands that carefully tend to their public image are inhumanely exploiting their own workers. And documenting this reality means attacking their weakest flank, the brand image. International pressure is more effective than national justice. In modern-day El Salvador, being a poor woman means that justice will be neither swift nor well served.What brands have you documented in breach of workers’ rights?
The complicity between businesses and the state is very difficult to break
There are Puma, Adidas, Old Navy, GAP, Reebok, Columbia, The North Face, Patagonia, Tommy Hilfiger and Lacoste, besides much of the equipment made for the American NFL. In 2011 we complained about the inhumane production conditions to make NFL shirts on the same day of the Super Bowl, and in just a few hours over 1,500 people had written to one of the teams to demand changes.What were those inhumane conditions?We collected evidence that the drinking water for the workers was contaminated with up to four different types of bacteria, including fecal coliform bacteria; we showed that they were working in rooms with no ventilation or emergency exits, at average temperatures of 36ºC. We also gathered evidence that their contracts forced them to work extra hours, accept wage discounts, and meet abusive production targets of 1,500 shirts a day. They were being paid eight cents of a dollar for every shirt, which sells at retail prices of $25. We showed how all this was happening with the shirts being produced for the Dallas Cowboys, and also with shirts made for Puma, Adidas... This forced them to sit down with us and make improvements to the water, the ventilation, the contracts...And middle management was trained to treat workers humanely, without using physical force. This was the only conflict that was resolved without any loss of jobs, thanks to pressure and international interest and the work carried out by employees.What is it like to be a human rights activist in a country with 14 homicides a day and an impunity rate of 85%?For my female colleagues, it means persecution and layoffs. For those of us who defend human rights, it means periodical death threats and constantly watching out for our own safety and mental health. The country’s backdrop of violence means that the powers that we are fighting hide behind the gangs. All the threats are signed as though they came from gangs, but we know it comes from them. But we cannot stop, the fight must continue. If we stop, change will never happen.You need Europe to join the fight through more demanding, responsible consumer habits...Responsible consumption is the key to change, and international pressure is our own life insurance: the more international attention we attract, the fewer threats we will receive. Everyone should find out what conditions their clothes have been manufactured in, and demand detailed information. That way, brands will not only care about their environmental image, they will truly respect the lives of the people who make their clothes.English version by Susana Urra.
Sep 5, 2018
Maugust09
44
Sep 5, 2018
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Ctrl c and v skillz are immaculate. Still have yet to make a connection between this knife and exploitation there though. And aside from copying and pasting, what else have you done?
I also never doubted the exploitation of the people in el salvadore. I merely said that it was pointless to cry about it in a place like this with cretins like me. Maybe your copying and pasting skills would do better in an academic environment? Peacecorps? Anything??? Wait youd actually have to do your own research, copying and pasting in school is called plagiarism! Ugh maybe well get you a plane ticket so you can hit the ground running... for your life bc you just landed in crazy ass el salvadore!!! Haha jk, youd have to stop copying and pasting the hardwork of others to accomplish... something besides wasting time here with me. Atleast i dont have delusions of who i am as a human... you think bc you know stuff and google things youre making a difference.
Btw, the guy in the pic is my dad i took it of him for our 'fridgerator!
Sep 5, 2018
RayF
17115
Sep 5, 2018
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What I think, is that because I spend the time to learn "stuff" I am making a difference--to both myself, and to the world at large. I say that, because in my opinion, one less ignorant bastard in the mix is a win for all of mankind.
On the other hand, the battle to end stupidity in the world, must be fought, one dumb-ass muther-fucker at a time, and admittedly, that's going to be a long, slow process (as you have so kindly volunteered to demonstrate).
In the interim, until that goal is reached, let ignorance and apathy be your sword and shield in your great and glorious struggle, to blissfully never know, the driffeacne between your own ass, and a hole in the ground. Onward, onward, ever onward!
Class dismissed, you got an F, by the way.
Sep 5, 2018
Xymnslot
376
Sep 5, 2018
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Conscious and ethical buying practices absolutely make a difference. I'll agree that it's not possible to trace the impact of an abstained purchase through Massdrop on a situation as terrible as what's happening in El Salvador, but by the same rationale, it's hard to trace the impact of a single vote in a national election. Doesn't mean that the votes don't make a difference.
Sep 5, 2018
RayF
17115
Sep 5, 2018
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Here, here!
Sep 5, 2018
Maugust09
44
Sep 5, 2018
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Yes you can rest happy one day knowing you obtained so much knowledge and did absolutely nothing with it. They will build great statues to your intellect, rayf the man who... learned things? What did he do again? Oh right cried on an internet forum.
Yes yes yes you are making a difference, one less ignorant person at a time and all i get it. What a hero youll be someday, maybe. Maybe one day youll step down from your high horse to actually help us mere mortals instead of hiding behind google searches. Atleast i can plead ignorance, theyll say rayf you knew all this and you still squandered you intelligence in massdrop forums!?
You can make a difference. If you do something more than whine on massdrop forums! I believe in you!
Sep 5, 2018
Maugust09
44
Sep 5, 2018
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Rayf made an unverified claim correlating the situation in el salvadore to the production of these knives. I simply challenged him to talk to the company to actually find out what the deal is, otherwise hes just talking shit on the internet like i am. Instead of doing this he claimed some holier-than-thou shit, and googled shit related but not actually backing his original point, instead of actually putting effort into investigating his case.
I decided to troll him today, with apparent mild success.
Sep 5, 2018
Maugust09
44
Sep 5, 2018
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And votes dont count if they arent related to whats being voted on, you vote up and i vote down, rayf is voting cucumbers!
Sep 5, 2018
RayF
17115
Sep 5, 2018
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And still people continue to exaggerate the height of my high horse--most curious!
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Sep 5, 2018
Maugust09
44
Sep 5, 2018
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Why did you steal my baby pics lol :(
Sep 5, 2018
Maugust09
44
Sep 5, 2018
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Sorry i meant my current facebook profile pic...
Sep 5, 2018
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