DarkVoice 336SE OTL Headphone Amp Discussions | Drop

Mar 10, 2019

I'm a newbie to the audiophile scene and have my first pair of hd6xx's preordered. After tons of research I've decided on the darkvoice after seeing so many glowing reviews paired with the 6xx's. But I do have two questions. While checking out do I want to select the 110v or the 220-240v option? And also if anybody could recommend good tubes paired with the 6xx's that are all around good or at least help beef up the bass that these headphones tend to lack at times? Sorry if these are noob questions, and thanks in advance!

Mar 10, 2019

jgp1212

291

Mar 10, 2019

Colbyjack1441You're country's voltage will differ to the rest of the world. Make sure to buy the right one.

Mar 10, 2019

mbvjmc

188

Mar 10, 2019

Colbyjack1441110v for the US and the 220-240v for Europe. Check this list: https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plug-voltage-by-country/

Mar 10, 2019

Mar 10, 2019

LociintheskyIf that's a joke, you're funny. If you're serious, you're sad.

Mar 10, 2019

Mar 10, 2019

Colbyjack1441Thanks. For what it's worth, I'll be one more voice saying the DV is beautiful with the 6xx. It is my only experience with a tube amp, but I find it vastly preferable to my SDAC/O2 for all Sennheisers. It is common knowledge, or common opinion at least, that you should turn your source up to 100% unless there is some risk of peaking, but probably not lower than 90% volume. My laptop has some updated audio components, so on its own, it gets quite loud. I don't think I could listen to more than perhaps 40% volume on its own. This means that I have the option of turning either my computer or the DV up. All listeners would agree that having the computer's volume up restricts the possible space that any given sound is in. And as far as detail on the highs, there is more discernible texture. So I think most people would agree that that's the way to go. Nevertheless, turning my computer down so I can crank the DV has interesting sonic effects. The positions of sounds are slightly more difficult to pinpoint, similar to locating a subwoofer based on the sound in the room (but only by a matter of degree). It is bassier. It is "tubier". And where bass is critical, I take this route regularly and without apology. Don't know if that may be helpful for you, but you have to admit it's pretty fucking cool either way. Can't do that with solid state,. Also, the one tube I have bought is the RCA 6SN7 GTB. The Sylvains seem to be more highly regarded. I got it off of ebay for $10 + shipping. People tend to say that the biggest difference you can make with a tube is by swapping out the power (smaller) tube. So if you're going to spend some money and buy just one tube, go there. The slight difference I heard after swapping in the RCA was an increased warmth and (therefore) bass. To my ears, the warmer something is, the more _bassish_ the sound is, even if the actual volume of the bass is not higher. This may be unique to me. After getting my 6xx's, my 600s started to collect dust. This is in spite of them being technically superior. It appears to me that most people prefer the sound of the 6xxs, and I am fairly confident that you would be in this camp. You claimed that the 6xxs characteristically lack bass from time to time. I agree with you, but not everyone does. Once I swapped out the tube, I started listening to my 600s instead. It gave them that little bit of warmth and bass that they were always missing, making them sound similar to the 6xxs, but resolving a little more detail. The bass on the 6xx is slightly sloppy. When it is accentuated, the bleed into the low-mids where bass should be distinct is more frequently audible. The DV is warm, the 6xx is warm, and the RCA 6sN7 GTB is warm. The trifecta is a bit much for me, but could be what you're looking for. For ten bucks, it's probably worth a shot. Cheers

Mar 10, 2019

Mar 10, 2019

LociintheskyWow, thanks for all the info. You seem to be well educated on what tubes go well with the hd6xx's. I dont mind to spend a little bit more money if needed. I would like more bass but not at the cost of it sounding sloppy and bleed into the low-mids. So I would ask what your most recommended tubes are for both tubes? Most people say the stock ones suck so I just want to upgrade right away. So basically I'm asking what do you use? Because I'll most likely go with that.

Mar 10, 2019

Vote

Mar 10, 2019

Colbyjack1441Did you also get the Magni3? Have you seen the Topping DX3 Pro DAC/Amp combo? I have that in addition to my Darkvoice 336SE. I couldn't be happier with both of these devices both paired and as separates. I got my Topping DX3 Pro from Massdrop. It even has Bluetooth input that sounds great. http://en.tpdz.net/products_detail/productId=39.html I tried communicating with Schiit but they ignored my emails and they don't want you to call them (just try). I'm not putting up with that Schiit! I was ready to drive to their showroom but wanted to get a couple of answers before making the trip. I'm not taking any more Schiit. I'm interested in the JDS Labs Atom Amp https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-amp/ I might pair that with a Topping D10, or better still their D30 DAC. I use my Topping DX3 Pro in DAC mode out to my Darkvoice. I'm sorry but I can't offer any suggestions at this time on tube rolling with the Darkvoice.

Mar 10, 2019

Vote

Mar 11, 2019

Colbyjack1441Np. The RCA is the only tube I've bought, and I know next to nothing about them, sorry. Just giving you an account of the little experience I have. I say the bass is "sloppy" as an attribute of the HD6xx, (and as a term relative to the Sennheiser line, which I hold in high regard) not the tube, and am supposing that there may be no way to increase the relative bass volume and tighten it up. If that is thI would never suggest that someone should skip the 6xx because the bass isn't "good enough," but having the 58x and the 600 to compare side by side with them, I know that Sennheiser has done better here. In sum, it's a tube that turns into the spin of what the darkvoice and 6xx are already doing, so I'm sticking with my suggestion that you should pick up this tube if you can get it shipped to you for under $15 based on the question you asked unless you already feel the pairing is too warm. As I said, it improved the sound of my 600s by bringing out the bass a bit, and it did no harm. Whether it's an "improvement" is purely subjective. To my ears, there is a little more warmth, and a little more bass, and the tube does not distort or damage the sound.

Mar 11, 2019

Vote

Mar 11, 2019

LociintheskySounds like I'm gonna go with that and shop around a little bit afterwards. Thanks so much for the helpful info.

Mar 11, 2019

Vote

Mar 11, 2019

UsehernameI did purchase the magni3, mainly because my darkvoice wont be here until may, and my hd6xx's will be here in April and I cant wait that long lol. So I may keep the magni3 depending on how much I like it, if not, I'm selling it once the darkvoice comes. I've yet to buy a dac yet. I'll be playing music through my phone and I'm not quite sure how that would work with a dac. The bluetooth on what you recommended would be perfect, but i dont have another 200 to drop at the moment.

Mar 11, 2019

Mar 11, 2019

Colbyjack1441I don't at all regret owning my Darkvoice 336SE. I bought it on eBay and it came with the stock power tube plus two of the other tube which are not stock, and I'm satisfied with those. I did pick up a second power tube just so I have a pair of each in case one fails. I'm not in a hurry to buy any more tubes. I have been seeing where people recommend skipping tube amps and buy SLR instead. I just received this message today from a cable manufacturer, that also recommended this: "To save money, I recommend getting an XLR amp. The tubes are fun but I would go with XLR first. Add tube amp later, or get an XLR tube amp." Too late, buddy. But now I have something to look forward to in the future. Another nice feature of my Topping DX3 Pro is that it's line out feature has two modes. It can pass full DAC line out signal to your amp line in, or as a preamp and the line out can be raised or lowered using the included remote or the volume knob on the unit. I usually run it DAC line out to my Darkvoice but in some cases I like being able to raise and lower volume with the remote. That is especially useful if you want to control the volume of a pair of powered monitors. I'm also still new to this hobby and I appreciate the advice I've gotten from other members either directly or from reading their comments. Cheers!

(Edited)

Mar 11, 2019

Mar 11, 2019

Colbyjack1441I use my computer for accessing the music I listen to. I started out with an original Micca Origen, and liked it so much that about a year ago I got the Micca Origen G2 ($109) which is a USB DAC/amp https://youtu.be/SwwiamsQXoQ It drives the HD6xx's just fine on low gain. It served as my DAC initially when I got my Darkvoice. After getting my HDxx's I decided to purchase better gear, so my Micca Origen G2 is now retired and kept as a backup. My Topping DX3 Pro improves upon this by a lot and also adds bluetooth, which also makes it easy to use my phone as the music source. The Micca Origen G2 is USB powered but it also has power input from an optional wall wart power supply if you are connecting it to your phone so it doesn't run the phone battery down as quickly. Now the only time I use my phone as music source is via the Topping DX3 Pro's bluetooth feature. Hope this info is useful. Cheers!

Mar 11, 2019

Vote

Mar 11, 2019

UsehernameYeah I dont have a computer so I'm gonna use my phone for the source. For now I'm gonna wing it and see what it sounds like without a dac, but somewhere down the line I'm gonna have to figure out how to use my phone with a dac (from what I understand it's annoying and it kills your battery) or I'll buy a laptop and use that. Thanks for the info though I'm gonna keep the dx3 pro in mind when I shop around.

Mar 11, 2019

Mar 11, 2019

Colbyjack1441Yet to buy a DAC? Well what do you know? I just logged back on to recommend a DAC. It's kind of ridiculous that you bought a magni, but... I understand. I hear it's great. But there's no way you're going to keep it. When you sell it, get rid of it on AVexchange on reddit. You don't have to pay fees like on ebay. So why would I recommend a DAC? Well I think it's quite uncommon for a DAC to raise the bass volume substantially. It isn't night-and-day, but it is definite. That's actually just the way it goes with DACs. When you spend a few hundred on a Topping later on, that may be a different story. My laptop has the x-fi 5 motherboard and enhanced sabre DAC. My O2 has the SDAC (note: modular amp/dacs can be a really good buy. It's cool being able to bypass either one so I can mix and match with new gear). I have the E17. The DAC on my samsung S8 is quite good. I have the Audioengine D3. So for entry-level DACs, I think I know what I'm talking about. Anyway, the treble's texture is enhanced as well, without any increase in "shoutiness" that may cause discomfort. If anything, the highs are smoothed out a bit, not that that is really needed with the 6xx. It's a DAC/AMP combo that can't be bypassed, but the amp sucks so much (as far as adding VOLUME -- amps are about much more than just volume, though.) that using it with the darkvoice almost doesn't count as "double-amping." Right now I'm listening to my Hifiman 4xx thru my cell phone and O2, and I just swapped out the SDAC part for the D3 (I swap things around constantly) and I'm thinking "helllllll yeah". Gives me that bass kick I was hoping to get out of the 4xx before I bought em, and just sounds cleaner and more detailed, kind of like the difference between a 58x and a 6xx (which to my ears is substantial). I know the reviews are lukewarm but look, it was released at $200. So yeah, it's a 3.5 star dac/amp for $200, but now you can get it for $45 on their website. Refurbished, but with 30 days money back. If it's defective, I think you'll figure that out within 30 days. $45 bucks man, and it will raise the bass volume, much more than is the case for the tube, or any other DAC I've heard of. Plus, the Darkvoice has the quirk of decreasing the bass volume of headphones as you move down under 300 ohms. So if you get one of the many sub-100 ohm heaphones later, like the hifiman 4xx which aren't so, so different from the 6xx, but they have a punchier bass and for $30 less I'd even say their value is nearly on par with $200 for the 6xx, and I wouldn't say that about the 58x. Hey by the way, want to buy a pair of 58x? Haha, just kidding. Unless you want to buy them. I'd love to hear your counterargument to a $45 that'll do precisely the thing you asked for.

Mar 11, 2019

Vote

Mar 11, 2019

Lociintheskywhat is available for $45? Please provide a link, thanx. Cheers!

Mar 11, 2019

Vote

Mar 11, 2019

LociintheskyYeah I'm a little confused as well. Is it the o2 you're saying you can buy refurbished? Could you link us exactly to what youre talking about? Thanks for the info though, I'm getting a lot of help through this community and I'm loving it.

Mar 11, 2019

Mar 11, 2019

LociintheskyI was thinking about using a chromecast as a sort of dac. From my understanding, and I could be wrong, i would have to use a certain app in order for that to be my source and plug that into a dac. I have the samsung s8. And if I use a chromecast I could play music via bluetooth and use apps like spotify.

Mar 11, 2019

Vote

Mar 11, 2019

Colbyjack1441Plus I've heard that plugging your phone Into a dac completely drains your battery. I dont know if theres a way around that besides setting your phone on a wireless charger. And even with that I'd imagine that your phone would die fairly quickly.

Mar 11, 2019

Vote

Curlycat

Mar 12, 2019

Colbyjack1441As far as the replacement for the pre-amp tubes (6SN7) are concerned, a very nice tube "all round" tube, but very good for bass is the KEN RAD JAN CKR 6SN7GT VT-231. I have many tubes and for my ears this tube has has the best bass. Another very good tube, not NOS that you can buy new is the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z. As a side note, I have always been amazed by the sound quality and enjoyment I get from Westinghouse tubes. I would buy any Westinghouse tube in a flash, if I was looking for some more tubes, but I have enough tubes to last me two lifetimes. As for power tubes I like the Mullard 6080 tubes (Nos or second hand)

Mar 12, 2019

Vote

Mar 12, 2019

CurlycatThanks for the recommendations! I purchased the Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB To start me off with but I will be looking into getting those next. Thanks!

Mar 12, 2019

Mar 13, 2019

Colbyjack1441When I suggested the "Sylvain" I actually meant Tung-Sol. Oops, see I don't know my tubes. Let us know what you think later on.

Mar 13, 2019

Mar 13, 2019

The person I bought my Darkvoice from threw in two 6SN7 tubes, a Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB and a Sylvania branded one. The Tung-Sol is a new tube and I don't know if the Sylvania was NOS or used. He did tell me that he felt that the Sylvania is the better sounding of the two. I agree with him. I'm not good at describing the characteristics. To me the difference is subtle and isn't always obvious from song to song type. Of these two that I have I prefer the Sylvania. The Sylvania logo is printed in yellow and I can just make out 6SN7GTB printed on the glass. Sorry for the crappy pic.

(Edited)

Mar 13, 2019

Vote

Mar 13, 2019

Colbyjack1441re: drains your battery There is no shame in using the 3.5mm out. RCA is what the darkvoice receives natively anyway. But that's neither here nor there. Elitist pigs may disagree with me though. Sorry for that stupidly confusing post. I see two of you (at least) left with no clue about what I was trying to say. No actually I expressly non-recommend the o2 for the 6xx, and incidentally, the o2 is an amp, not a dac (though mine is the modular massdrop version which comes with the SDAC. It's fine. The O2 with my sounds fantastic with my hifiman 4xx though -- when I use the Audioengine D3 to bypass the SDAC. As good as my Senns even. So the D3 is quite respectable IMO and for the 4xx beats everything more expensive that I have. It is easy to recommend something where they'll give you your money back just because you ask for it though (no broken hardware needed). Whether or not you'll like it... there's just no way to know. It changes the sound signature, brings out some detail in the highs, pumps up the bass, that's all there is to say I think. Chromecast as a "DAC"? I haven't heard about anything like that. But sure, if you go into your settings on the S8, you can change the bluetooth connection to hi-fi. There's also a really cool feature in your options which plays a bunch of beeps, dozens, and you press a button saying whether or not you can hear the beep. It then equalizes your phones sound output according to your own hearing's shortcomings. With a wireless charger, a fast one, I doubt your phone would die at all. Samsungs quick-charging is...well...it's quick. But not all chargers are equal. https://audioengineusa.com/refurbished/

Mar 13, 2019

Vote

Usehernamehttps://audioengineusa.com/refurbished/

Mar 13, 2019

Mar 13, 2019

Mar 13, 2019

LociintheskyThanks for the link! I got to listen briefly to a D3 connected to my HD6xx's when I bought my Darkvoice. I liked what I heard, and $45 is a good price. I wouldn't mind having one in my laptop bag. It's USB powered so it's not a hassle connecting it to your computer but in the case of using it with an iPhone you will need an Apple USB 3 camera adapter, and a power supply power enough to power the D3 and your device. Apple's USB C Fast charger is recommended. I did experiment connecting my Micca Origen to my android phone through USB using an adapter cable. It worked fine but it didn't allow me to simultaneously connect a charger so it drained my battery fast. Cheers!

(Edited)

Mar 13, 2019

Vote

Mar 13, 2019

LociintheskyThanks for clearing that up, its something I'll look into when I have the money. But yeah, chromecast audio is pretty neat. It's worth looking Into for convenience alone and only costs 30-40 bucks. Lots of music streaming apps support it. It supports optical, rca, and 3.5mm input, and you connect to it via wifi so there is no bluetooth compression. And like I said the dac in it is pretty decent, nothing crazy, but I feel it will get the job done until I get an external dac.

Mar 13, 2019

Assimilator702

184

Mar 13, 2019

Colbyjack1441A good preamp Tube is the Tung Sol 6SN7GTB and the 6SN7GT is also good. They both have a detailed but not overly done treble and solid bass. Another good one is an RCA 6SN7GT grey glass. A bit more refined in the midrange and treble that’s the Tung Sol tubes. Anything really from GE, RCA, Tung Sol, Sylvania, Raytheon which are th most common brands tou l find are good tubes. Occasionally you’ll find one that’s noisy or a bit rough in the treble but that’s part of the game. Out of 15 to 20 6SN7 tubes that I’ve acquired ver the past 2 months only 4 have been noisy, and only one hasn’t gotten quieter and seems like a lost cause. But some guys that are tube experts say that for every year that a tube has been sitting on the shelv unused it needs 2 hours of on time. So 3 out of the 4 tubes reducing hum levels is not bad. Grab yourself a GE 6080 output tube and you could also try the more rugged military versions with the suffix at th end. RCA uses WA, Raytheon uses WB, Sylvania uses WC. The 6080 tubes really are better than the regular 6AS7G since they have more current output which is necessary when driving lower impedance cans. The Tung Sol 7236 is another option which I believe is a long life tight spec computer grade 6080. $36 on EBay. I have 7 output tubes and leave each one in for a few days then swap to another. When the tubes are NOS they tend to have a foul odor which is the getter coating that needs to gas off after sitting in a warehouse for 50 + years. Used tubes usually don’t have this issue.

Mar 13, 2019

Mar 15, 2019

Colbyjack1441Sounds like a good decision to me. You know I'm always swapping cables around with my stuff, etc., since you have an S8 like me, and you are planning on using it as a source, I ran the D3 between the s8 and the DV and found actually that I should come back and rescind my recommendation. On my 4xx, the little D3 alone sounds much better than anything else I own. So I stand by it and know it is a great device if purchased under $50. For your case, I would say, definitely, no. It doesn't destroy the sound, it just changes the sound a bit not in an interesting way and is basically pointless. So looks like that is immaterial now but just wanted to let you know.

Mar 15, 2019

Vote

Mar 16, 2019

LociintheskyWell shit I appreciate the heads up. I've got everything I need for my setup except for the hd6xx so I'm (impatiently) waiting for those. I'll let ya'll know how I like it when it gets here. Cheers!

Mar 16, 2019

rastus

1391

Mar 16, 2019

Colbyjack1441Many higher sq options other than CC, my take: https://www.mass drop.com/talk/8876/uh-little-help-please/2152621

Mar 16, 2019

Vote