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There are a lot of people that said their Darkvoice had build issues and static problems. Has Massdrops version avoided those issues?
Partypooper81
49
Jul 7, 2019
turbomustang84I don't think this is a massdrop specific product. I think it's just the same as the others in the market.. so issues are the same. I have one, the sound performance is good but power LED gave up after a few days already...
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mbvjmc
188
Jul 8, 2019
Partypooper81"but power LED gave up after a few days already..." Provided that nothing else is affected, I'd call that a blessing in disguise.
FluxAtlas
3
Jul 9, 2019
turbomustang84For what it’s worth I got mine a couple weeks ago on the latest drop and despite break in and following most tricks I could find I couldn’t get rid of severe static in the right channel. Bought a Tung Sol 7236 power tube off eBay thanks to the suggestion of a fellow drop user and the static is gone, immediately. Obviously mine came with a junk or damaged power tube. The rest of the amp works great though and I am not noticing any build issues to otherwise.
Partypooper81
49
Jul 9, 2019
mbvjmcFortunately nothing seems to be affected. From what I understood from pictures I looked up online, the LED is connected to the heater circuit, not the audio channels. So I'm hoping it will never affect the sound quality. One day I might simply disconnect it to be sure...
Schizoid
98
Jul 15, 2019
Partypooper81I think the LED it comes with is pretty bad in quality, mine gave out about a month in, replaced it with one I got on mouser and it works fine.
(Edited)
Partypooper81
49
Jul 15, 2019
SchizoidThanks for the tip! Do you mind sharing a part number? I might order it...
Schizoid
98
Jul 15, 2019
Partypooper81https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/lumex-opto-components-inc/SSL-LX3044USBC/67-1747-ND/468021 Just found the static bag with the reference number, this is the one I used. Bought it since I also bought some LED's for cathode biasing at the time as well. Also forgot to add, I don't think the orientation matters too much (Where the Cathode and Anode inside the LED point) since the heaters are AC, but keep that in mind just in case you do try to solder it. Also forgot to mention that the cathode probably points to the connection that also leads to the negative point on the capacitor, but again, I don't think it matters too much since technically the heaters never touch the positive terminal on the capacitors that feed the anodes (which would kinda mess with the anode a bit if the capacitors at that point in the circuit also saw any form of AC, probably?) if that were the case, seeing how the rest of the circuit besides the grid and heater relies on DC instead of AC. So I guess disregard most of this comment and just do whatever orientation with the LED in this case?
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Schizoid
98
Jul 15, 2019
turbomustang84 From my experience with the amp, the only few notable issues are that if you live in the US (My Case), the Transformer has a 110V primary, meaning that the 135/6.3 volt secondaries will be a bit higher if you use US Voltage, around 145/7 volt secondaries in my case due to the primary winding. For some people it may be higher, for others may be lower, give or take 5% from the usual 120 out of the wall socket having a range around that percentage. Issues with that is, while the 145 AC voltage doesn't really hurt the Anodes (In some cases that extra voltage when fed into the bridge rectifier, which also isn't damaged due to this, gets converted to a higher DC voltage, which may make the Anode produce a different sound, may be better, may be worse, depends on the tube and your preferences too) the 7 volts to the heater is scratching the recommended maximum the heater should get, which for both stock tubes, and most interchangeable tubes, is ~6.9 volts max. This is what mostly causes the need for the 72 hour burn in of the pre-amp tube. You may have seen on forums and older posts due to noise in one of the channels, which can be rectified permanently doing the "Hum-Fitz" mod on the amp, 72 hour burn in for the particular tube in question (which isn't as permanent, but works in most cases), somehow drop the voltage on the heater rails (I'll leave that up to anyone who has the idea, but I did see this post on converting the rails from AC to DC by placing a bridge rectifier and capacitor on the heater rails too, which supposedly worked for the guy in the post, but since rectifiers kinda output higher DC than the AC coming in, depending on the rectifier ofc, I kinda have to imagine he had the the 220V mains with a 240V primary transformer, since if it was the other way around, he would have damaged the tube filaments that way, I think, idk, maybe that'd be a good topic of discussion?), or just straight up switch out the transformer to the correct primary, keeping the same secondary values (unless you want to increase anode voltage, in which case, don't over do it and make sure you understand the circuit well enough). The heaters tend to be the main issue, other small issues include, LED on the front giving up (common-ish), dead channels (that's a bit rarer, and can happen with any product tho), burning smell (tends to be the tubes themselves, but still worries people from time to time), channel imbalance/noisy pot (relatively uncommon since the potentiometer is rather reliable, in my case at least), broken power switch (less common now, but can still happen, since it's basically a very long silver stick-thing which can snap at the joint, either replace it if it's broken or send the entire amp back and get a new one), and excess heat (with the 110 transformers and users here in the US, I haven't really seen a case of this, but the heat could also come from a bad wire wound resistor, so if the amp case is burning you from touch, turn it off). TL;DR of this is, the heater rails tend to be the biggest problem due to channel noise, "Hum-Fitz" mod or 72 hour burn in are the most common and easiest solutions. LED failure on the front panel is the second issue, which some people actually prefer since the blue LED may annoy some, and to others, it may never even happen at all, and this LED doesn't affect audio quality btw. Third most common are snapped power switches, which sucks, but the only solution are to replace it yourself, or send it back for a replacement. All the other minor issues tend to be rarer or may not be as bad as the three stated here, so you don't have to worry about those. The Darkvoice is a pretty good amp, and all of those issues can be fixed in different ways, and it tends to be cheaper than it's alternatives, specifically the Crack by Bottlehead. Also, as Partypooper81 has stated, "Drop" doesn't really have a hand in this product's quality or design, and make sure to see what their return policy is if you're worried. I have a bit of hands on experience with the amp tho, so if you have any issues with it, you could comment and I might be able to give you some solutions or tips for the amp if it's having any issues, besides, you might be able to learn how to tweak the Darkvoice to sound a particular way and make it more your "own" amp.
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mbvjmc
188
Jul 15, 2019
SchizoidThere appears to be an alternative to the Fitz mod and 72-hr 6SN7 tube burn-in. I used two 220uF caps (Nichicon FG) in parallel for my Fitz Mod. Despite eliminating the heater circuit hum and avoiding any bass roll-off from the use of lower capacitance caps, the Fitz mod introduced a noticeable volume gain that drops the listenable volume range close whose bottom end experiences some channel imbalance. Another head-fi'er performed a different mod that appears to significantly reduce the heater hum and avoid gain issues with the Fitz mod (see links below). Apparently, the mod involves cutting the heater connection to the left channel earth and creating a virtual zero at the start of the heater wires with two 220 ohm resistors. I wonder if this affects the amp in any negative way. Also, the pictures of the mod are not very clear, particularly with where to solder the ends of the two disc caps connected to the resistors. Are the two caps soldered directly to the chassis? (see pics below) https://www.head-fi.org/threads/darkvoice-336i-336se-tuberolling-partii.348833/page-120#post-14628672

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/darkvoice-336i-336se-tuberolling-partii.348833/page-120#post-14630773

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(Edited)
Schizoid
98
Jul 16, 2019
mbvjmcSorry, I had something really well written, and my phone decided to die on me, so atm, typing from my computer. To keep it brief, cutting the ground at the point he did was done to move the ground closer to where the other grounding points for the rest of the circuit tends to meet at (Where the Ceramic Caps are). Also those 4 caps near the tubes don't affects anything at all when it comes to the actual audio signal, those caps are there to regulate voltage and charge to the anode, which does affect the audio signal, just not directly like the red coupling caps on the PCB. The effect of putting those resistors and caps where the PCB connecting the transformer to the heater rails before they reach any of the tubes is that they're probably acting as dropping resistors, basically lowering voltage using resistors, and using the capacitors to possibly control the charge that goes into ground. All he did in cutting the ground there was to ground both rails at the same time instead of just one of them. The reason he may have lost that hum was that he reduced the voltage. Also since you mentioned channel imbalance with the caps, those caps connect to the cathode pins on the preamp, and hold a charge, in a way, this is one method to bias a cathode, at least from what I understand, The capacitor's ability to store charges affects the biasing of the left and right triode cathodes, which that biased potential difference, in respect to the anode, may affect how the signal is receiving gain as well as how much each side is gaining. Basically, the capacitor's aren't correctly matched and may be working very slightly differently, and causing that imbalance. The caps I use are Elna Silmic II, 25V, 220uF, and they seem to be well balanced, so maybe try those? Also, just a quick edit, but srsly, the Darkvoice's design is so weird, it has 200V 1000uF caps that receives the Bridge Rectifier's DC right? Then what do those caps do? They send that DC to smaller 350V (in my amp's case) 220uF caps that directly feed the anode. I feel like those 1000uF caps can be thrown out, and just replaced with 3 220uf caps and rebuild the circuit from there. The reason I think they might have done it with so many caps was to reduce ESR by using more capacitors, which I guess makes sense, but idk if it's really necessary in this circuit particularly, since it just adds more stuff to the circuit. Idk, I'd like some thoughts on this. I mean I left my design as is, but still tempted to try that out, since I'm almost 100% sure it's still function without blowing anything up.
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Schizoid
98
Jul 16, 2019
mbvjmcOk new idea, since I just got it looking at that picture you posted on cutting the ground from the heater rail and moving it somewhere else, what if you cut the ground from a different point? (Ignore those blue circles, just look at the X):
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See I was thinking, LEDs are diodes, so they would block AC from returning in one direction, basically making the AC exiting the LED into a form of DC, maybe half wave? Idk, point is, the LED's cathode also enters one of the heater rails and to ground in the normal Darkvoice circuit, so my question here is, if you cut the connection to the heater rail and LED there, the rail would still be grounded at one point, but won't have "DC" passing through it in a weird way due to the LED, and the LED would still work since whatever comes from one of the heater rails would simply continue to ground no? Idk, just some food for thought here, but I'm going to try it, and tell you how it goes. Worst case scenario, the LED won't work or there is no audible difference in doing this. Reason I thought of this was that I saw a pic of the Crack online (super common pic, nothing bad, there is also a discussion here on Drop that shows off the insides of the Crack too), and saw how that amp handles the heater rail, with no LED in the heater path and grounding on only one rail, which makes sense since it's AC.
mbvjmc
188
Jul 16, 2019
SchizoidHey, thanks for the info. As for the virtual zero, based on my 1yr of undergrad physics and lab, your comment makes sense, as introducing the resistors at the start of the heater circuit that then led into the rectifier would cause a voltage drop. This lowering of the voltage could be the reason for the hum not being as present as in the unmodded circuit. As for the rest of the post, I'll digest it after work today. Thanks for the wonderful information and your follow-up mod looks interesting as well. Apologize in advance, as I should have added the following reference head-fi post earlier (also, read the two follow-up posts): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/darkvoice-336i-336se-tuberolling-partii.348833/page-120#post-14628672
(Edited)
Partypooper81
49
Jul 16, 2019
SchizoidThanks for this info. I didn't look into myself. For the moment I actually have a 110V and a 220V on my desk. I bought the 220V since we move to Europe in October. I powering it using a step up transformer. I will sell the 110V, with or without a fixed LED ;-) As you mention there is indeed a difference in sound. I think the 220V sounds better than the 110V. There is welcome extra high and low end to the music. I honestly thought that there was already wear on the components. I couldn't come up with a different explanation for the moment. This is nothing drastic but it's definitely there...
Schizoid
98
Jul 16, 2019
Partypooper81The difference could be that they use a 240 volt primary transformer, and the voltages being provided to the system in the secondaries are lower due to the primary winding, so maybe the tubes you're using like that voltage, idk tbh, or maybe the voltages are fine and they use a 220 primary, idk.
Partypooper81
49
Jul 16, 2019
SchizoidI also don't know the real reason for the moment. I don't even know how many primaries this transfo has, I haven't opened it. Anyway, the effect is the same with basically all my tubes...
Schizoid
98
Jul 16, 2019
Partypooper81Ohhh I didn't see the part about the step-up transformer, if you stepped it from 120 (US) to 220 (Europe), if there is no noise, then I guess the transformer inside the thing is 220 I guess, idk if a 240 primary, which would be under the required voltage if fed 220 would also produce no noise in the heaters, since it'd be low voltage, not high voltage in this case, but using a step up transformer wouldn't change the current from a 120 main. Idk, tbh only way to know for sure is opening it up. Also the Transformer, just to let you know, should have only one Primary (Primary voltage winding is dependent on version, US Version is 110, and that affects the secondaries since the winding is receiving a different voltage than what they were wound for.), and 2 Secondary windings, being 135V (For Anode) and 6.3V (For Heater Filament) in all versions of the amp. If you have issues with the amp and have odd voltages than what the transformer should output, https://www.hdoofactory.com/ is the company that makes the transformer for the amp, same mounting and all. Here is my amp's new transformer:
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It cost about $50 shipping and all, but it came in a really well packaged box, all I did was install it and voila, almost every noise issue the amp had before is gone.
(Edited)
Partypooper81
49
Jul 17, 2019
SchizoidThanks for that picture of the transfo of the DV. I have actually been looking for this information. I was wondering if the DV had a "universal" transfo, like for example the Bottlehead Crack, where you can change the connections on the transfo to accommodate different mains voltages. It seems like this is not possible with the DV. A whole new transfo needs to be installed I guess... For your information, the step-up converter I'm using is a 110V to 220V and my mains is 122V (just measured it on the wall outlet). I'm pulling 73 watts without music playing but that shouldn't matter much. I've read it should be closer to 60W. If you really want to know I can measure the 110V model later. Anyway, I'm probably also having slightly higher voltages inside the DV because of the step-up being a 110V and not a 120V. Regarding the noise, I do not have tubes for the moment that are not burned in already so I can't really tell. The tubes that hum on the 110V DV also hum on the 220V DV... burning those in didn't make a difference. Some tubes are just that bad I think. DC heaters would probably solve all issues regarding hum.
turbomustang84
156
Jul 17, 2019
SchizoidI am very impressed with the detailed answers I've gotten to questions about products sold on Massdrop . In some ways this is how I wish Head Fi was . Thanks for taking the time to reply I'm now going to purchase this amp with confidence that even if there are issues they will be easily addressed by following what others have done previously. It's kind of a bonus that this is an older product that there really should be no surprises that have not been addressed already . Again thanks
Schizoid
98
Jul 17, 2019
turbomustang84Yeah the amp having some age and forum posts just about everywhere gives it the benefit that it'll probably not have some random hidden quirk no one has heard about. A secondary benefit is that the amp has a similar design to other amps, most closely resembling the "Crack" amp in build, albeit the Crack having more room to mod and fewer capacitors feeding the anode/power supply in it's base form, and a different preamp tube but with the same heater voltage design, which affects how they both sound when compared, and to an extent, the Woo WA6 (Non-SE), since while it uses a rectifier tube instead of diodes, and is transformer coupled (they fit 3 transformers, one in the box, two for output inside the chassis for impedance) there are certain design aspects that can be understood and even applied to the Darkvoice to make it better (Hum Fitz, LED Cathode Biasing, Heater Rail Dropping Resistors, etc) due to these amps being so similar and working on similar principles. I mean true you could always build a Crack tho, but if you want the tube sound now without having to build an amp yourself, the Darkvoice is a great option, and can work later on as a great start in amp building if you ever try to hammer out some of the kinks the amp has (basically what happened to me and I'll probably start working on my La Figaro 339 since my Darkvoice has been modded with everything I can think of and is dead quiet now).
mbvjmc
188
Jul 22, 2019
SchizoidHey Schizoid, can you post a pic of the innards of your modded Darkvoice? Thanks in advance!
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Schizoid
98
Jul 22, 2019
mbvjmcStill not 100% done (Gonna get lower ESR caps for the 1000uf Chemi-Cons and a quieter shunt pot/attentuator but other than that it works pretty well atm)
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(Also excuse some of the black marks but this is the first amp I ever worked on so there be some visible artifacts of me being a soldering noob, I'm way better now I swear ;-;)
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Partypooper81
49
Jul 22, 2019
SchizoidDid twisting the heater wires help a lot? I was thinking about doing this one myself...
mbvjmc
188
Jul 22, 2019
SchizoidCool, thanks! It appears that you swapped out the volume pot. To which one? I was thinking of swapping out the 250K volume pot with a 100K logarithmic Alps Blue Velvet (if I can find them in stock, e.g. https://www.partsconnexion.com/ALPS-64605.html).
Schizoid
98
Jul 22, 2019
Partypooper81Less noise but idk if it was the heaters or the transformer swap tbh, wouldn't hurt to do tho.
Schizoid
98
Jul 22, 2019
mbvjmcThe volume pot was Bourns at 100KOhm (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PDB182-GTR01-104B0?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtC25l1F4XBUzdugALayiIkz9AM0NL35xE%3D) although I'm going to swap it again for a DACT type stepped attentuator at 100Kohm (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pcs-DACT-Type-SMD-Stepped-Attenuator-21-step-Free-ship-/190954520387?txnId=1643639973009). The Bourns one is super quiet tho, so I can recommend that one, but gonna try the DACT to see if it's better.
(Edited)
Partypooper81
49
Jul 23, 2019
SchizoidYou did more than one mod at the same time? You should know better, my friend ;-) I have another question: I was wondering why you removed the preamp outputs completely. Why not simply remove the resistor to ground to take the caps out of the loop? I don't think you need to remove everything... or I'm I missing something.. We should start a new thread :-)
Schizoid
98
Jul 23, 2019
Partypooper81The RCAs have an insulator inside that melted after reassembling the amp so many times, I wanted to keep the preamps, but since they melted (I rebuilt the amp from scratch 7 times due to adding new sockets/transformer and learning how to improve my soldering, the red/white part melted and the center became loose, fair enough tho, prolly too much heat since I sucked hard with an iron at the time and soldered that output 7 times) I just yeeted them out to test the loading issue from the SBAF Forum post, and yeah, they do in fact have loading. Instead of buying new RCA sockets and removing the caps from the board after just having installed the tranformer, just plugged them, since either way they're effectively out of the system. Either way the amp sounds better without them.
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Schizoid
98
Jul 23, 2019
mbvjmcYeah from the top of my head, the mods that I've done/will do more of when I get the parts tomorrow are as follows 1) Belton Octal Micalex Socket Replacement 2) New 120V "Correct Heater" Transformer 3) Dale 25W 1000 Ohm Cathode Load 4) LED Preamp Cathode Biasing 5) Elna Silmic MkII 220uF 25V Cathode Bypass 6) Removed Pre-Out Loading 7) Soon to be DACT 100k Attentuator/Current Pot is Bourns 100k Pot (Super Quiet Either Way but I'll edit this with the quieter Pot/Attentuator) 8) F&T "Tube" 220uF 450V Anode Caps 9) Z-Foil 1000 Ohm resistor 0.01% Grid Stopper 10) Mundorf Coupling MCaps and Evo Silver/Gold Oil Caps x4 10uF Mcaps & x2 ~5.1uF Evo S/G Caps 11) New 2w10 Rectifier Diode 12) TDK EPCOS 68 ESR @ 25°C 1000uF 200V PS 13) Dale 10W 200 Ohm Filter Resistors for PS 14) Brand New Blue/Clear Glass LED for Front Panel And If I had Space I'd use an Inductor instead of Filter resistors for the Power Supply and Maybe try out the Crack's "SpeedBall" mod, I just don't wanna waste 150 on a mod I'm still not sure would even fit inside the Darkvoice, altho I'm still working out if I wanna do it in the first place, idk SpeedBall seems to make the amp faster and more dynamic and a bit brighter (then again the preamp tubes are different types but they might react in a similar way), which while good to some, I like the more smooth and slow sound mine has atm which helps tone down the Beyerdynamic T1 mkII's Highs on it's own, so idk if I wanna change that. Also, using this Darkvoice as a testbed for mod ideas I might apply to the bigger La Figaro 339, which has a bit more room for mods, since I'm using it as my more Treble oriented amp, with the Darkvoice being Bass/Mid oriented due to the tubes/components. Also the Darkvoice is a preamp to the La Figaro since the La Figaro's Treble and Dynamics due to the tubes, while great with the HD600/HD800 "Super Dunpot", can be a bit too much with the T1s, and even the HD800s, but with the Darkvoice preamping straight from the headphone out, the Darkvoice tones down the treble just enough without killing the dynamics of the La Figaro's tubes, almost a perfect balance between slow and smooth and fast and dynamic. Like a "Tube Neutral" I guess?
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Schizoid
98
Jul 25, 2019
SchizoidAlso quick little brain storm, but let's say you wanna do the Crack's CSS "Speedball C4S" Load mod on the Darkvoice, well for the anode load, you could remove the normal resistors and mount the small PCBs on both sides using the case holes of the amp to hold them, and the cathode load, well since part of the mod is removing the old resistors to use the C4S load there, seeing how the Speedball places it's PCB for the cathode of the Power tube, what if one were to cut the PCB in half, and place each half where the old gold resistors in the Darkvoice were, and bend out the transistor to place the heatsink closer to the outer side casings to disperse heat safely on the sides? Reason I say cut in half is since I think both sides of the big PCB don't really communicate with eachother, so cutting it in half might work, I'd have to see the bottom of the PCB tho to make 100% sure but it seems to be doable. Hypothetically speaking of course since the mod is $115 on their site and it may not fully work with the 6SN7 vs 12AU7 Tube pre-amp, although they are similar enough to reasonably think it is possible, and the Power tube part of the mod are most likely compatible both being 6080/6AS7/G, so idk.
Partypooper81
49
Jul 25, 2019
SchizoidThere is only one way to find out: go for it! ... and let us know lol. I think the preamp tubes are interchangeable; you can buy an adapter for the crack to mount 6sn7 tubes...
mbvjmc
188
Jul 25, 2019
SchizoidThat's quite an impressive list of mods there. As for your volume pot replacement, I see you got rid of the PCB. I see most volume pots having a 6-pin layout vs. the 8-pin layout on the PCB. I think 2 pins of the PCB are null. Regardless, it looks like you simply removed the PCB and directly soldered the wires to the appropriate pins.
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Schizoid
98
Jul 25, 2019
mbvjmcYeah honestly it's easier for me to point solder the new pots instead of using a PCB, besides most pots are 2 gang 6 conductor and 7mm diameter screw so the PCB is irrelevant anyhow.
Schizoid
98
Jul 25, 2019
Partypooper81Yeah but I'm not gonna use the 12au7, the anode boards will work fine using the 6sn7, since looking it up, the boards are just really sophisticated loads using transistors to maintain constant current at fluctuating voltages from the power supply, the Darkvoice does something similar using 2 220uf caps per anode and a resistor, but the Speedball ups the ante using a transistor to more tightly regulate current and LEDs for the voltage.
Schizoid
98
Jul 25, 2019
SchizoidMan, ngl, 50/50 wanna get the Speedball mod just to test the effects, It'd probably only take 15-30 minutes to install, even if the cathode load board doesn't work as I expected, I can still install it normally by doing the same as my other comment but preserving the board in a single piece, 115 tho, idk I'll try to save up I guess to test it out.
Partypooper81
49
Jul 25, 2019
SchizoidYes, that's what I meant; it will work with the 6sn7's because it works in the crack with the 6sn7's as well .. 115? Didn't they used to go for 150?
Schizoid
98
Jul 27, 2019
Partypooper81Yeah now they're 115 on their site, still sad news, the size is still too big taking more precise measurements, Only way it would fit would be to also remove at least one of the capacitors on each side of the anodes nearest to the PCB to fit the Transistor's heat sink, which the only other option I've thought of is to cut the heat sink by about a third and stick it as close as possible to the casing to use the fact that it's made of metal to the heat sink's advantage in cooling off, but that may not be the safest idea and also at that point my Darkvoice would basically be a Crack with Speedball using 6SN7 instead of 12AU7 if I did remove those caps, so idk, kinda ruins the whole point of having a Darkvoice if I just made a Crack in Darkvoice clothing . . . BUT there is some better news still, what if I were to tell you, that instead of Speedballing the Darkvoice I were to Speedball . . . THE LA FIGARO 339!? See the La Figaro actually has the Perfect space for the heat sinks, specifically, the center Grill, where the board can be cut in half and placed in the exterior of the amp right in the center in open air, obviously I wouldn't touch them since you know, hot . . . but I would have a secondary issue, specifically, I would need to save up some cash since this mod for the La Figaro would require 2 Speedballs instead of 1, due to having 2 set of 6AS7 tubes and 2 sets of Pentode 6SJ7 tubes, which I may rip out and convert the wiring to 6AS7 since the transformers can handle it, so technically those boards for the La Figaro would ideally have to be sliced into 4 parts, two of the parts into the Grill square thing of the La Figaro, and more complexly, two more parts floating slightly below the first two parts to have all 4 heat sinks floating outside the amp to get maximum coolage? Idk so far just a theory, but it might work all things considered, either that or I'll think of something else, but the La Figaro seems to have space, just some minor concerns if the heat sinks on the transistors would radiate heat and damage the tubes nearest to it? I know the transformers can 100% handle the mod, just if the heat will affect anything around it. See it's actually gotten kinda awkward between me and my Darkvoice and La Figaro, since i modded my Darkvoice to be a good Pre-Amp to my La Figaro, and now . . . I think my Darkvoice is better ;-; even though it's the smaller amp. So I need to step up my La Figaro's game somehow, that's why I'll start modding it since I've literally done everything I can think of to benefit the Darkvoice without retreading or modding pointlessly with little to no benefit sonically or to the tubes duration. So that's why I'll be doing a few mods to it to ready it up for some Speedball, specifically, if my wallet can handle it, Swapping Transformers from 115 to 120, replacing the 6SJ7 Pentodes with 6SN7 by rewiring, Bigger and Badder Attentuators instead of Pots, Better Caps, Resistors and Schotkey Diodes (unless I do my "Side Bet") all around, LED and Bypass caps on the 6SN7 tubes once I replace the 6SJ7, and finally, the Speedball, and see if It really has enough space. Obviously this'll take some time tho, since I need to crack open the amp completely and reach the Transformers just to make 100% sure they really are 115 Volt and not 120, and then check their secondary winding voltages. Also, idk if this is asking too much, but as a "Side Bet", lets see what would be more fun to have, I can either do Speedball, or once I get to the Transformers, I can them with a 5 volt secondary besides the 6.3 volt secondary to have a tube rectifier rather than a solid state rectifier, which would require me to redo the Filter Caps since usually tube rectifiers put out higher DC than Solid State, so I'd probably have to increase the voltage possible on those caps. Honestly I prefer the Speedball over the Rectifier although I can do both, just that the Rectifier would be much harder to implement, unless i really stretch it and use a thinner 5AW4 tube rather than the typical 5U4G which has that fatter coke bottle shape and then redo the filter caps in the back as well as the filter caps nearer to the tubes, etc. Also I wanted to use a mini 9-pin rectifier but those are rare and have a really high current for their size which wouldn't make for the most reliable rectifier. So idk, I wanna see what ya'll prefer, Rectifier or Speedball, either way I'm going to try to do one of them, so all this means is not how pimped out my La Figaro will be, but how I'll pimp out my La Figaro, for they shall be both equally pimped in their own unique and very special way. Basically I'll end up with either a La Figaro "Speedballer" or a La Figaro "Side Bet Rectified". I'll start cracking it open toady/tomorrow and order the basic parts by the end of whatever day it is probably, including the transformers since I finally figured out how to more effectively remove the transformer's back box thingy where the Transformers/Filter Caps are for the amp with the Darkvoice as the example. Oh also if anyone wants to give me some advice on whether to replace the 6SJ7 Pentode wiring that comes stock with the amp or keep it since Pentodes may sound better than dual Triodes I mean, I'm all ears. Oh also also, I may keep the sockets of the La Figaro since they are nice stock compared to the Darkvoice's stock sockets, idk yet.
(Edited)
Schizoid
98
Aug 4, 2019
SchizoidOk small update, I need 2 Speeball boards and 1 C4S board for the La Figaro due to the dual transformers, and me changing the pentodes to triodes (6NJ7 to 6J5/Apdapter 2C22). Since I have one C4S left over I decided to implement it into the DV for shits and giggles and oh boy the DV is now even quieter (Also now has a 10kohm DACT pot, since 100kohm is too big ;-;). Testing it atm for heat, it's 10 P.M atm for me. 30 minutes in and nothing catastrophic, prolly will play music through it after about an hour.
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(Edited)
Schizoid
98
Aug 4, 2019
SchizoidOk smaller update, the board works but distorts, you have to change the large orange resistors on the board to 180kohm-200kohm resistors (2 Watt) since the 12AU7 (Crack) has a different Anode current than the 6SN7 (Darkvoice), so yeah if you wanna C4S the DV with a 6SN7 Pre, you gotta raise that resistance there or your audio will sound like ass, Ima order 4 190Kohm for the DV and La Figaro. Ok small Edit here, those resistors did nothing (or maybe the resistance was too low, or maybe the right resistance in the wrong place, idk but I got a new theory), thankfully I realized that when before I ordered some due to some further testing (Jumped the Gun with the Post). Looking at both designs (DV vs Crack), there seems to be a 270kOhm resistor in the Crack at the final Power Supply Capacitor's positive terminal leading to the anode and connecting to the negative terminal, so me thinks that resistor has something to do with why the C4S seems to distort in the DV, maybe it drops current here, I'll see if I can go down to the local parts store and get some resistors to test. Either that, or the resistors on the HP output may be the cause. Idk, also just finished converting the La Figaro from 6SJ7 to dual 6J5 tubes, will test tomorrow and see how that goes, basically wired each tube as in my DV, with LED Cathode bias and a bypass Cap too. Also since the voltage on my DV is 6.3 now, I removed the caps from its Cathodes to make more room for the C4S, from what I can tell, no noticeable difference removing them, maybe a bit more air (?) and maybe a tad bit less gain, since people complain about that with Hum-Fitz. Idk. Also I don't think the Power Supply Capacitance (1000uF nearest Rectifier in DV vs 220uF nearest Rectifier in Crack) is affecting the C4S but If both my theories fail to produce results I'll test with PS Capacitance then. Either way I need to test here or else the La Figaro (Essentially wired like 2 DVs with slight differences) will have the same or similar issues, although the Speedball board may be fine, then again, Capacitance there is directly 1000uF instead of going through the two 220uF Caps. I'll check that later. I'll be damned if I don't get this to work somehow, even if I do end up making a Crack in a Darkvoice Shell. . . Besides I could make a guide later for anyone who wants to add a Constant Current Source to the Darkvoice and maybe even the La Figaro now that I've read up on Transistors a bit more. Oh also I finally ripped out the 47uF and 1MOhm resistor from the pre-out, just yanked them out and threw them in the trash, since they were literally doing nothing, also flowed some more solder on the Output caps just to make a better connection somewhat.
(Edited)
Schizoid
98
Aug 12, 2019
SchizoidOk so small update, just ordered the parts for the La Figaro, rebuilding it like Dual Mono Cracks essentially with high end parts and Speedball in SET configuration using 7193/2C22 tubes as the Pre-Amps with internal Configuration to 6J5. Finally got the DACT pot to work with the Darkvoice and it sounds great (Better than the Pot), Also the reason the DV was having issues with the C4S loads wasn't Capacitance, it was due to the Grid Stoppers that the amp usually has (1000 Ohm, which I replaced with Vishay Z-Foils), which I don't see anywhere on the Crack, well, basically I decided to opt out of the C4S loads (Too Bright I Guess, idk?) and instead replaced the resistors it came with with high quality Vishay resistors, and dropped the resistance to the Anode resistors on the Preamp from 30kOhm to 27kOhm which simply gave it a bit more gain, nothing amazing just a bit more gain. It does sound cleaner though that may be due to the high quality resistors and DACT pot instead of a normal pot, and maybe the reduced resistance to the Anode, idk. Still The La Figaro has been tested removing the 820uf Caps from the Power Supply and configured similar to the Crack's PSU and it functions as intended, just need to tweak the resistances there a tad bit. Might Mod in a Stereomour II Shunt Regulator for use with the Crack's C4S board in the La Figaro and tweak from there to make them function, or die trying. Idk with that yet. Just waiting for the components to begin the La Figaro's Rebuild at least, also since I want the La Figaro to be better than the Darkvoice, I'm Doubling down on the components and increasing everything, Mundorf Caps for the PSU as well as the Output, Low ESR and ESL, Higher Capacitance on the Output than the Modded Darkvoice to get a bit of a better bass response (Though that doesn't matter much since my Headphones are all above 150 Ohm, but who knows, I have friends who use Planars/Low Impedance Dynamics, might borrow theirs for testing). Also Not gonna use Attentuators in the La Figaro since the benefit of Dual Pots is to very specifically get a good Left/Right Channel Balance, so just gonna go for really good Mono Pots, stuff that hopefully doesn't get dirty/scratchy easily. Oh also rebuilt the Darkvoice again with a bit more nuance and made the wiring at the socket level so I couldn't singe any of the wires and twisted all possible wires into pairs. Darkvoice sounds great, using a Bendix 6080 JAN Redbank Slotted and Carbon Plates, and a RCA 5692 Red Base.
(Edited)
JKDjEdi
13
Jun 23, 2020
SchizoidThat link no longer has that transformer from what I can tell
tim_herremans
45
Nov 9, 2020
Schizoidthanks for your contributions. anymore updates coming?
takeyama
4
Nov 19, 2020
SchizoidNice Mod, Schizoid. I am not electronic expert. Do you mind to tell me the position of each part you replaced, preferably annotate it with picture? I am thinking to do the same mob as you .... thx for your time.
scottlu
346
Feb 18, 2021
mbvjmcis the virtual ground connected like this?
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scottlu
346
Feb 20, 2021
mbvjmcthis is the best way and only way to remove the hum without change the sound. other methods mentioned change the amp a lot.
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