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bfitz
667
Jan 20, 2019
Which pair to bring some warmth to the HE-4xx? Also stock pads are incredibly itchy...
Eli35
653
Jan 22, 2019
bfitzbump, I'm also interested
bfitz
667
Jan 22, 2019
Eli35You find them a bit "overall" to bright as well? I found the same thing with M1060c with open cups. Some tracks, especially rock/jazz can cause ringing from some of the piercing treble.
Eli35
653
Jan 22, 2019
bfitzIMHO, HE4XX are a bit off-tune, when compared to other well balanced sounding headphones (like HD6XX), I'll explain:
  • low end is perfectly fine for me, considering they're open back. There's a clear roll off, not gonna lie, but bass has enough presence to not disappoint me, and with some nice EQ work this is not a problem for me anymore. At the end of the day, planar headphones are easily a step above most mid-fi dynamics in terms of bass quality, since the bass is much faster and better textured than any dynamic I've tried so far. If you really crave for bass quantity, fully open back headphones aren't your thing, so better look elsewhere (MD x Fostex TR-X00?).
  • mids are where things get groovy, because in the midrange there seems to be some frequencies that are somewhat recessed while others are a bit enhanced for no good reason. This can turn some male vocals a bit cold while some other female vocals might sound a bit too bright. It's actually hard to explain, and to be honest you can get used to it quite easily, but switching from the HD6XX to the HE4XX I can tell it's there. They don't reach "annoying" levels of sibilance, although around 1kHz there's a clear spike that might be a bit distracting.
  • high end is good, there's a bit of recession in the low-highs that sometimes takes some detail out, but no big deal. They're ok for classical, although giving some extra power in the 4-5kHz range via EQ definitely improves their sound.
(Edited)
bfitz
667
Jan 22, 2019
Eli35Not looking for bass.. All my cans are open, except the M1060c(no longer have). K701, HD58X, HD800(not really used alot), TO400, and now HE-4XX. Maybe the peak in the mids is what I am hearing?. I just find it odd that my ears seem sensitive to something the hifiman are doing that does not happen on hd800. I don't want to change the sig as they are very good cans for the $, and I may be happy enough with them that I can offload hd800. I would prefer a non eq solution, that is why I am looking at different pads.
(Edited)
Eli35
653
Jan 22, 2019
bfitzAccording to my readings, and my very limited hearing skills, the odd bump on the HE4XX that might be bothering you (and me as well, until I EQ'ed them) is located around 1kHz. If you find any good pads that mostly sticks to the stock sound signature while reducing a bit the 1kHz response, you might enjoy them more than stock. Some bump in the 500-700Hz range is welcome too, since it might give a bit more warmth and presence to voices. And if you find any pads that also boost a bit the low bass & sub-bass response, while sounding open & airy like stock, let me know because I might be interested too hahaha
Eli35
653
Jan 22, 2019
bfitzA link that might interest you: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Massdrop%20x%20Hifiman%20HE4XX This guy created EQ presets for 1000+ headphones (including HE4XX, HD58X, K701, HD 800...), which might be insteresting for you in order to check what FR curve you should be looking for when pad swapping. Good luck with that! IMHO, EQ done right makes huge difference on planar magnetic headphones and works quite good, so if your amp has enough power to give a nice gain to a low-ish output gain source (price to pay when applying digital EQ) you're all set. It's easy, free, 0 risk... why not trying? I did and I'm not coming back to no-EQ audio on PC. (note: I speak about global EQ, no per-app EQ, those are usually shitty and it sucks because you have to equalize each app independently).
(Edited)
bfitz
667
Jan 22, 2019
Eli35I will check that link for sure. And if I do find pads that don't alter sig too much or at all but also fix that "bump" I will let you know 👍
Solderboy23
297
Jan 24, 2019
Eli35The pads your are looking for will not be found here or from dekoni. What your are looking for can be found exactly by purchasing a specific pair from zmf. Try out the zmf oval pads. Specifically in Sheepskin or cowhide. Either one will work. I own two pairs of each and currently am using the cowhide pads and Absolutely love what they have done to the sound. It's magical. The next best choice is from mrspeakers the alpha dog pads which I'm currently using on my original he400's (hard to find now days) and can be seen in the pictures as well
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Solderboy23
297
Jan 24, 2019
bfitzOh and by the way just for reference I've literally tried or own just about every pad on the market that can be bought. So it's not like the pads I listed are the only ones I've tried. I own legit thousands and thousands of dollars in pads alone. I got 5 of these bins full of them lol.
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Eli35
653
Jan 24, 2019
Solderboy23I have a pair of ZMF Ori Lambsking pads installed on my T-X0 (which turned out to be great headphones after pad swapping and EQ, I might mod them in a future but right now they don't sound anything like stock), and I can tell they're a BIG improvement on both sound and comfort. However, I don't have the inner ring for the HE4XX, so I can't put them on. Any suggestion on where to buy the rings? I've seen some on ebay but I'm almost sure they're counterfeits and don't wanna risk breaking it and losing some expensive pads in the process. Thanks for the info!
Solderboy23
297
Jan 24, 2019
Eli35https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00VV2JYXK/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_4?smid=AQG144I0DN37H&psc=1 Buy those right there. They are legit and work fantastic. Better quality rings come with these pads than the stock ones that normally come on all hifiman headphones. The velour pads are not all that great but that is fine. You only need the rings that come with them and for the $11 you get the hifiman adapter rings and a spare set of velour pads in case you ever need them.
bfitz
667
Jan 24, 2019
Good one Shakespeare 👍
Eli35
653
Jan 25, 2019
10/10 comment, wow, next level
Eli35
653
Jan 25, 2019
Solderboy23Great, I'm buying right now, thanks a lot!
bfitz
667
Jan 25, 2019
So this, http://www.zmfheadphones.com/pads-and-cables/zmf-oval-earpads and this? http://store.hifiman.com/index.php/earpad-mounting-rings.html . And I should be good? does the HE-4XX not come with rings on its pads?
Eli35
653
Jan 25, 2019
Indeed, not feeding the troll lol. I see you're quite an expert on pads, good to know! Any suggestions for upgrade pads for my HD6XX? I find the stock ones quite good, but maybe I'm missing something better. Also, for the HE4XX, aren't ZMF Ori pads supposed to fit better than ZMF Oval? In fact, at the ZMF pad guide, they say Ori pads are designed to fit all Hifiman full sized cans, while Ovals aren't supposed to fit any Hifiman model. Here's the link: http://www.zmfheadphones.com/zmfpads/. Final question, suggestions to replace the crappy stock pads on Superlux HD668B? I bought some cheap velour and pleather pads on AliExpress, but of course they're not very good (better than stock, but they're itchy, quality is bad and the inner foam is kinda hard). I don't wanna spend big, at the end of the day these are cheap cans, it makes no sense to spend more on pads than the headphones itself... or does it?
(Edited)
Eli35
653
Jan 25, 2019
bfitzFor the rings, YES, those are the rings you're looking for. Take a look to the Amazon link that @Solderboy23 shared, for $11 you can buy cheap velour pads that come with original rings attached, so you basically buy the rings and get free pads. For the pads, I just commented that according to this (http://www.zmfheadphones.com/zmfpads/) the proper pads for Hifiman headphones are ZMF Ori. I have one set of Ori pads installed on my T-X0, and I'd say that they'll fit my HE4XX like a glove, can't say about Oval pads.
bfitz
667
Jan 25, 2019
Eli35I am in Canada, those pads from amazon.ca are $40 😐 lol I will check the Ori pads 👍
Eli35
653
Jan 25, 2019
bfitzCheck shipping cost from amazon.com directly, to Spain I can tell you it's like <$5 (usd-eur exchange rate helps too, in your case maybe it's a handicap). Same pads from amazon.es are 25€, from amazon.com it's 14€ w/ shipping.
(Edited)
Solderboy23
297
Jan 25, 2019
bfitzYes to both of those. But the rings you linked cost $10 and come with Just the rings plus you pay shipping. The ones I linked are free shipping and are better quality rings plus come with pretty much a free set of velour backup pads for only $11
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Solderboy23
297
Jan 25, 2019
Eli35The oval rings fit just fine and have absolute zero trouble to put over the adapter rings. The ori pads fit as well but those are not the ones you want. Trust me when I say you want oval Sheepskin or oval cowhide
(Edited)
Solderboy23
297
Jan 25, 2019
Eli35For the superlux hd668b I would have to know what sound signature you want with them before I recommend a pad. Do you want a more sealed off sound or wider sound stage? Do you want deeper bass response? Reduced treble? Higher treble? Also, your budget for them?
(Edited)
bfitz
667
Jan 26, 2019
Solderboy23Rings end up cheaper from HifiMan so I grabbed a set.. Also got the Cowhide Oval pads from ZMF.
Solderboy23
297
Jan 27, 2019
Eli35If you want to change the pads on your hd6xx I highly suggest you come to this website by modhouse audio and buy there custom 3d printed sennheiser pad adapter rings. I have them and they work incredible. They allow you to basically put any pad you want on your sennheiser's. It's awesome. Here is the link. You'll want to get the hd580/600/650 adapter rings. These things are legit and make pad swapping on sennheiser hd58x/6xx/580/600/650 as easy and customizable as one could ever wish for. https://www.modhouseaudio.com/sennheiser-earpad-adapters/fz5hnljhxcvpcrybgsum5drj41umx0
Solderboy23
297
Jan 27, 2019
bfitzAwesome man. Your gonna love the zmf oval cowhide pads. They are extremely comfortable. Look awesome. Sound incredible on hifiman headphones and the texture of them actually match the he4xx headband identically. I promise you will absolutely love them. They will slip right over the rings no problems. Just make sure the stitching line on the thin angled side match up like this when your done installing them. Which I'm sure you know/or would figure out but i figured I'd post the pic anyways. These are the cowhide pads and this is what your headphones will look like.
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bfitz
667
Jan 27, 2019
Solderboy23I'm excited to hear the change. The only reason they don't get as much head time as 58X is due to fatigue. I don't know what it is the 4XX are doing, but certain songs/albums cause a ringing in my ears, HD800(v1, no mod) do not do this, M1060c didn't either(can't be a planar thing). One track that is particularly offensive on the 4XX, but fine on other cans, is Atmosphere by Joy Division. @ 1.20ish into the song when the chimes ring out... Hope these pads can work some Sonic magic, cause for their price, the 4XX do everything better than the 1060c, clean and detailed, just the right amount and texture of bass, excellent separation(especially at this price point), comfort/weight, just as fun as 58X, but not as surgical as HD800.
Eli35
653
Jan 28, 2019
bfitzI can feel a bit of fatigue with the HE4XX too, I think it's caused by the little emphasis in the 3kHz range that these headphones have, compared to others like HD58X/HD6XX/HD800. On the other hand, HE4XX have a bit of recessed mids, specially low-mids between 500Hz/1kHz, so they encourage to raise the volume a bit more than flatter/more balanced headphones in order to hear voices better, which usually leads to fatigue too. However, coming from v-shaped IEMs they sound quite relaxed in comparison. With EQ, I can tell you I got rid of any fatigue, bring up the mids, and corrected the whole FR to sound much more balanced (while also adding a bit of sub-bass rumble, which was almost nonexistent). I encourage you to at least try, it's easy & free, 0 risk... Why not? Check this link in case you're interested into EQ: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Massdrop%20x%20Hifiman%20HE4XX
Eli35
653
Jan 28, 2019
Solderboy23(edit: this post was about Sennheiser HD6XX) Ok so I'll try to print my own rings, which pads you suggest me? I saw modhouse recommends HM5 flat velour pads for all Sennheiser models, but I don't know if other pads will fit and/or sound better w/ my HD6XX. I like the stock sound, but a bit more detail and/or sub-bass (hard to get on open back headphones, I know) would be appreciated. Any suggestions?
(Edited)
Eli35
653
Jan 28, 2019
Solderboy23(edit: this post was about Superlux HD668B) I'd like them to sound as open as possible, but without sacrificing bass (and some sub-bass would be appreciated), so I guess pleather/leather or hybrids would do better, right? Treble response is ok, a bit too hot sometimes, and mid-bass sometimes sounds a bit too boomy, so I guess a flatter FR would be better for them, bringing up the mids and taming up the highs and mid-bass, while extending a bit more in the low end (if possible).
(Edited)
Solderboy23
297
Jan 28, 2019
Eli35https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07FN78WBS/ref=ox_sc_act_image_42?smid=A1C7GMECJNJNQ0&psc=1 Or https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Cushions-Compatible-SteelSeries-Sennheiser/dp/B07FN2Z5V2/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1548700352&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=LTYIVABHTTW&dpPl=1&dpID=51INBJ1hlcL&ref=plSrch Check these pads out. I highly recommend them for what your looking for. I use them on my hd6xx and 58x. Judging by what I've read from your comments you and I have extremely similar preferences in sound. So knowing that I can't recommend these pads enough. Of course though they will only work if you have the 3d printed adapter rings
Eli35
653
Jan 29, 2019
Solderboy23Those are for the HD6XX, or for the Superlux HD668B? I'd rather replace the Superlux pads right now, because the ones I have are cheap & shitty, while the stock HD6XX pads are pretty good IMHO so no need to replace them for now. BTW I edited my two previous comments so it's clearer what I'm looking for with both headphones. Thanks a lot for all the info!
(Edited)
LowFi42
263
Jan 29, 2019
Solderboy23what the fuck
Solderboy23
297
Jan 29, 2019
Eli35For the superlux if your willing to spend the bigger bucks on your pads then stick with zmf and get the eikon or auteur pads. I suggest the sheepskin or perforated Sheepskin for the sound your looking for. The Sheepskin will keep the bass more pronounced but the perforated will keep it more open sounding while keeping more bass than velour will do but less than non perforated Sheepskin will. So your choice there. If your looking to save a little money then just go with brainwavz XL Round pads. Get either pleather, micro suede, sheepskin, perforated or hybrid pad.. Stay away from there velour pads. The micro suede is extremely comfortable and seals off quite well around the ear while maintaining a nice open sound. I would suggest these ones. If you don't want them then I would suggest next to go with either the hybrid or perforated. Your choice as well though. All will give you what your looking for in slightly different ways.
Eli35
653
Jan 30, 2019
Solderboy23Ok I'll probably go with the Brainwavz XL round pads, I'll try to find the micro suede ones for a reasonable price, and if not I can always buy the hybrids from Amazon Spain. Micro suede looks pretty sweet, like a premium velour, I hope it doesn't sucks all bass out like velour lol. I made the big mistake of buying Brainwavz velour pads for my old M50x... they became treble cannons and leaked A LOT of sound, literally 50%+ of the SPL went out from your ears, I had to almost max the volume to reach loud volumes. I'll never replace pleather for velour again, unless I'm completely sure it's a good idea (like after modding some headphones). Thanks a lot for all the info, wish there was more people like you around, cheers!
(Edited)
Solderboy23
297
Jan 30, 2019
Eli35The micro suede does not suck the bass out. The material seals off considerably better than velour does while maintaining a very soft comfort. They are exceptional pads. I use them on a pair of my akg k712 headphones. They keep the sound open and the bass tight and enclosed. Very nice pads. If you can get a hold of them you will love them. No problem what so ever with the help. i enjoy helping my fellow audio fanatics. I could talk about audio gear all day long lol. If you ever need any suggestions don't hesitate to hit me up anytime. Take care bud.
Eli35
653
Feb 1, 2019
Solderboy23Cool, if you looking for some Little Dot or DarkVoice tube suggestions let me know, I also rolled some opamps on my LD I+ long time ago and it sounds just right for me, better than O2 in both power and sound signature (but has some serious background hiss, not suited for sensitive IEMs even on low gain). BTW yesterday I saw some Sennheiser (I think they were the HD558) at the mall, and it had this micro suede pads, couldn't hear them but I wore them for a few secs and they felt real nice on the skin, something between pleather and velour, I think I could like it.
Solderboy23
297
Feb 1, 2019
Eli35The pads you saw on the sennheiser's were velvet pads. Most commonly found stock on the sennheiser hd598cs there are several companies that sell them of good quality. They are nice pads for sure. I like the material as well.
bfitz
667
Feb 5, 2019
Solderboy23Rings and pads came. Pads feel great, easily the most comfortable pads I have ever used, and I wear glasses, plastic ray ban wayfarer style frames, incredibly roomy inside( I have huge ears ). Rings seem a bit flimsy, I assume the ones you linked are the same as on the stock pads, much stiffer and overall a more quality feel, however I found the flexibility of the rings I got to really help in attaching the pads as the pads themselves are quite large,, Once they are on though, they are nice and snug. The real change is in the fatigue and harshness I was getting from certain frequencies, where before I found a slight shilling sound that would lead to ringing, and a harshness in cymbal crashes and other like frequencies, it feels now as though there is a softness and warmer quality to the sound, but level of detail and overall tonal quality remains pretty much the same to my ears. Overall, for the small investment, I am really happy with the pads. Both comfort and sound, 100% improvement for these cans.
Solderboy23
297
Feb 5, 2019
bfitzAwesome bro. I'm glad you like them and that I was able to help you out. The pads really are great. They are also of extreme quality and will last you for many years. You said you got the cowhide ones right? Some time down the road I suggest you try the same pads but in the sheepskin covering. Have one of each. The Sheepskin is a little softer but has more give to them. Both work equally as good as the other however. I use the cowhide on my he4xx and sheepskin on my he560's. Don't hesitate to hit me up anytime.
(Edited)
bfitz
667
Feb 5, 2019
Solderboy23Thanks again for the recommendation. Really really happy with the result.
brlkin
5
Feb 14, 2019
Solderboy23Been stalking the thread and followed the same exact recommendation. I must say I can't thank you enough :D A couple of questions though, what difference exactly did you notice between the oval and round ZMF pads? Also is there virtually any sound sig. difference between the oval lambskin and cowhide? I thought that the material contributes most to the sound sig. but if they work as good as the other as you said I'm interested in grabbing the lambskin version as well. The stiffness of the cowhide tempts me to press the headphones against my head lol.
Solderboy23
297
Feb 14, 2019
brlkinThe oval pads have considerably more thickness and depth to them over the Ori pads (round). Which lifts your ears further from the driver creating more spacial environment giving the illusion of increased soundstage and also giving more warmth to the sound. A more responsive low end in other terms. The ori pads are great as well. Just depends on what sound signature you want. I use the ori pads on my sundara's and the he400i which are my gaming set. As far as the material goes I would highly recommend you get a pair of the cowhide and the Sheepskin. They are both fantastic in their own ways but give no Sonic difference in sound. As far as I can tell any ways and I got great ears lol. They only provide difference in comfort. The cowhide provide a more rugged and stiff exterior with a slightly longer lasting and tougher material. While the Sheepskin are a little softer and smoother. As I said, it would definitely be worth your time to invest in getting a pair of the oval cowhide and Sheepskin as well as later on down the road trying out the Ori Sheepskin. Their suede material/coverings will give a more airy sound with increased high end.
Solderboy23
297
Feb 14, 2019
brlkinYou might want to look into the mrspeakers alpha dog pads as well. Which are just as good as the zmf pads. They are slightly thicker and softer though. With a much more forgiving memory foam in them. I find them to be the most comfortable out of the bunch but I normally don't mention them because a lot of people find them to be to thick. Not me though, I Absolutely love them. Most comfortable pads on the planet with an incredible low end response. You can check them out here: https://www.mrspeakers.com/shop/accessories/alpha-pads-genuine-lamb-leather.html The pictures are of both the zmf oval Sheepskin and mrspeakers alpha dogs. Zmf on the right and mrspeakers on the left in the pictures.
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(Edited)
brlkin
5
Feb 14, 2019
Solderboy23Thank you for the insight! I think I've found the sound signature I'm looking for, so maybe I'll skip the Ori for now. I like the cowhide but I already miss the soft touch of the lamb(sheep?)skin so very tempted to get my hands on those in the near future. The oval cowhide has been a complete upgrade over my Dekoni Sheepskin. Mid-bass hump is now gone and the thickness of the pads means that the headphones do not need to rest on top of my head anymore since the pads now do all the clamping. Awesome! Thanks again! My 4XX now feels like a new set altogether xD
Solderboy23
297
Feb 14, 2019
brlkinWell then if you really like the thickness of the pads and you want a serious upgrade in comfort trust me when I say the zmf oval Sheepskin is definitely more comfortable but the mrspeakers alpha dog pads are a whole new level of comfort. Try those ones out. They'll give you the sound signature your looking for as well.
bfitzMost popular for this is the hybrid pad which which is closest to the stock in sound, plus some upgrades to comfort & real sheepskin :)
bfitz
667
Feb 17, 2019
Solderboy23Brother, I cannot thank you enough... these are now my absolute favorite headphones, 👍🍻 cheers!
Solderboy23
297
Feb 17, 2019
bfitzOf course bro. I'm pumped you love them. Lol leave it to dekoni to come in Long after the fact and drop some information that has literally nothing to do with the conversation or the original question 😂😂
madugo
0
Apr 6, 2019
Solderboy23Hello, I been reading all your comments, and would want to swap out the pads for my 400i, either with the zmf or the alpha dog. looks like you said the sound signature are about the same between the two? also, do you know which one of these would be better reduce the clamp force for the 400i? i think i have a fat head that the clamp force is too much to handle for me, give me headache. I would imaging with a thicker pad it would help it loose up a little? Thanks a lot!
Solderboy23
297
Apr 11, 2019
madugoGet the Alpha Dog pads in your case. They are extremely plush and soft. Like two pillows softly resting around your ears. This will help with your clamp problem. They are worth every penny
Philimon
59
Jul 7, 2019
Solderboy23Hi solderboy23, Why the zmf oval over the zmf ori? Would you please explain in detail?
Eli35
653
Jul 11, 2019
PhilimonQuoting @Solderboy23 : "The oval pads have considerably more thickness and depth to them over the Ori pads (round). Which lifts your ears further from the driver creating more spacial environment giving the illusion of increased soundstage and also giving more warmth to the sound. A more responsive low end in other terms. The ori pads are great as well. Just depends on what sound signature you want. I use the ori pads on my sundara's and the he400i which are my gaming set. As far as the material goes I would highly recommend you get a pair of the cowhide and the Sheepskin. They are both fantastic in their own ways but give no Sonic difference in sound. As far as I can tell any ways and I got great ears lol. They only provide difference in comfort. The cowhide provide a more rugged and stiff exterior with a slightly longer lasting and tougher material. While the Sheepskin are a little softer and smoother. As I said, it would definitely be worth your time to invest in getting a pair of the oval cowhide and Sheepskin as well as later on down the road trying out the Ori Sheepskin. Their suede material/coverings will give a more airy sound with increased high end." I can't tell about the Oval pads, but my Ori Lambsking pads work wonders on my OG T-X0.
YungBouillon
0
Apr 28, 2020
Solderboy23I'm a little late to this thread but if I wanted to use my 4XX for competitive gaming (6XX for the tunes) what would be a good pad choice for that usage?
MoonGuy
17
May 19, 2020
Solderboy23Hey there, couple of questions. What would you think would be the closest to stock sound for the Sundara; the stock Pali Pads (or the new revision), the Dekoni Elite Hybrids, or the Dekoni TH-900 Elite Hybrids? A bit long, but thanks!
MoonGuy
17
May 19, 2020
Solderboy23Oh, and what’s your Head-Fi!
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