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andrewebay1
259
Aug 20, 2020
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Are these bio cellulose drivers like the THX00 series? Also is the impedance 16, 32, 50, or 75 ohm? Can't find it even on Denons site..they show it plugged to a receiver.
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Aug 20, 2020
Evshrug
3770
Community
Aug 20, 2020
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andrewebay1From the second sentence of the product description: “The first installment in the brand’s “premium” line, the AH-D5200 features Denon’s proprietary 50-millimeter FreeEdge dynamic drivers...” Finding the sensitivity was a bit more tricky. Read a review on Head-Fi that said they had no trouble powering it from an AK70mkII or a Shanling M0, which are small DAPs, and a world of turntables review that describes the sensitivity spec as 103 dB/mW, 24 Ω. That’s a high sensitivity, and low impedance. So, in the tradition of Denon’s headphones, they’re relatively easy to drive to good volumes and beyond, but they will reward clean power. If they’re using it coupled to a Denon receiver (and that AVR’s headphone jack is just the main speaker amp with a big resistor to reduce the volume for headphones), then for it to perform well the headphone probably has a very linear impedance curve (kind of like a frequency response curve, sometimes a headphone has the impedance vary depending on what frequency is playing, this can magnify the effect of low impedance dampening). Probably. I have not heard this headphone myself.
Aug 20, 2020
andrewebay1
259
Aug 20, 2020
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EvshrugGood stuff Evy. Tempting as I have not purchased a headphone in quite some time, these would fit the bill. Also was looking at the Elegia at a recent sale that seems common for them. Need to read more no the 5200s, I really enjoy the bio-celulose driver sound but I really like the build quality of this Denon (over Fostex).
Aug 20, 2020
Hyde
1119
Aug 21, 2020
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andrewebay1Yeah these are Denon's its own bio cellulose driver. Previously during D2000/D5000/D7000 it was made by Fostex but afterwards they split and Denon's been making their own driver. So D5200/D7200/D9200 are their own design. I'm not too sure the impedance but it's very easy to drive like the Fostex variants. EDIT: Apparently the new Denon drivers are not bio cellulose, but rather a nano-fibre/paper diaphram type.
(Edited)
Aug 21, 2020
Evshrug
3770
Community
Aug 21, 2020
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HydeApparently 24 Ω impedance, and 103 dB sensitivity (I assume at the usual 1 kHz). Thanks @andrewebay1 , and I appreciate you taking my comment well. I realize my tone came off as a bit... dry. But! I also haven’t gotten a headphone in awhile, in fact I would say I don’t have a high-end closed headphone, and there have been several times where my Momentum 2 or Mobius have been nice but I wished for something higher (that doesn’t run on batteries). I heard the D7000 and TH900 on “super overkill” ideal setups, and it’s amazing how rich they can sound compared to being powered off of something modest (Like Fostex had an $7k tube amp that looked like an 80’s microwave next to an HP-A4, and the TH-900 was like a whole different headphone on the two setups). Literally one of two “shivers up my spine” tingling experiences at my first CanJam.
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Aug 21, 2020
andrewebay1
259
Aug 21, 2020
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EvshrugTried the d2k and thx00 on Project Sunrise/Horizon. Excellent synergy They do really take a different life on different amps, very fun
Aug 21, 2020
andrewebay1
259
Aug 21, 2020
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HydeAre you sure on biocelulose with these 5200s?
Aug 21, 2020
Evshrug
3770
Community
Aug 21, 2020
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andrewebay1See! I always thought the Project Sunrise/Horizon/Amber tube amps from Garage1217 looked appealing! They went into great detail about what went into their construction, and they’re kind of like premium (I’m not going to spell this right) Sidjusae SET tube designs, and I expect them to be great! (I don’t think it was directed at me, but I have no idea if they’re still bio-cellulose diaphragms... seems like something you would advertise, but Denon is being very light on the actual specs on this headphone. A wide frequency range no longer sells headphones, we’ve learned that that basically tells us nothing reliable about a headphone)
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Aug 21, 2020
Hyde
1119
Aug 21, 2020
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andrewebay1lol after more research I think you could be right, the official words are "nano-fibre/paper diaphragm". So I guess it was my mistake to assume it's bio cellulose driver, my bad lol.
Aug 21, 2020
Malin
66
Aug 22, 2020
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Aug 22, 2020
Amnesia1187
544
Sep 11, 2020
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Hydeisn’t cellulose an obtuse way to say paper?
Sep 11, 2020
Hyde
1119
Sep 11, 2020
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Amnesia1187It's entirely possible I'm not too sure LOL.
Sep 11, 2020
Realizer
99
Sep 27, 2020
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HydeBio cellulose just means it's eco friendly, biodegradable, particle paper. I'm not sure but probably Fostex has the Bio-cellulose name trademarked on headphone drivers, so Denon says Nano-fibre because it sounds cool and different. Same thing though. I have the d2k's and 7k still, I've heard these 5200 and they are decent but I can't say I'd pay $600, which is what I paid for the 7k brand new before they were discontinued.
Sep 27, 2020
Hyde
1119
Sep 28, 2020
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RealizerDamn now I feel like I should've bought D7000 back then, though I found out about the Denon line way after they've all been discontinued. I only have D2000, how do you find D5200 compares to D2000? Also thanks for explanation on the bio cellulose driver lol.
Sep 28, 2020
Realizer
99
Sep 28, 2020
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HydeYeah if you can find a D7k still in good condition I'd grab it, the Fostex TH- here on drop are very good just slightly different tunings. My favorite are the D7k then the EM-U Teaks, then the probably the Ebony. I started with the D2k as well it was my first can over $200 back in 2008, and as long as the drivers function I'll keep it lol. As far as what I'd recommend, these newer Denons are decent but for the price EM-U teaks are better and $150 cheaper than these Denons, if you order directly from EM-U.
Sep 28, 2020
Hyde
1119
Sep 28, 2020
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RealizerLOL to be honest I might be the odd ball here, I actually started with D2000 and was looking for an upgrade. Then I jumped on the E-Mu Teaks and didn't like it (vocal too distant, imaging isn't as accurate). Then I tried TH-X00 Mahogany and I think tonality wise this might be my favourite out of all of them. Very warm and rich sounding, except it felt really in your face I think not enough space between instruments / layering. Which prompt me to try the TH-X00 Ebony but I find the presentation too cold/metallic. D2000 while it's not the best but I think as a whole I still like the widest sound stage and accurate imaging (good sense of space) and also the forward vocal (I tried to mod it and un-mod it later, maybe changed something) and deepest sub bass. Which is kind of why it prompt me to try D5200, but then again there are no local store for me to demo this unfortunately, so I just took the best guess based on all the reviews I read. There is still a chance I might try the D5200 then go back to D2000, I guess there's no way to find out until I try LOL.
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Sep 28, 2020
Realizer
99
Sep 28, 2020
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HydeSounds like your already quite far along. If that's the case and you didn't like the Teaks, try these D5200. Or step up to the various Fostex TH-9 series. Btw did you try running the the teak balanced? I love them through my Geshelli Erish, of course not with everything. Sometimes you just want to hear a planar instead. lol Just remember your source can make a difference in enjoying a certain driver, and not. I don't use them with many other amps anymore. From what I remember, these D5200 didn't wow me enough to buy them, but I wasn't able to try them on my own equipment. In-store demos aren't always the best, you might like them, as they are more warm than the Ebonys. I can't say you'll get Ebony level of detail though. Just keep in mind none of these Fostex style cans (that I've heard) are perfect, they all have their pros and cons. I'm sure one of these days I'll pick up the HP-3, because of the build quality more than anything else (they do sound good though). My most recent pick up is the Zeos reviewed Sivga Phoenix, and I'm keeping them surprisingly. They sound like a better D5k to my ear and they aren't even fostex style drivers. I got the Erish because of his review also and he wasn't lying, it's good. I've had almost as many amps as cans, around 15+ in last few years. EDIT: The D2k is probably still my favorite headphone sound, but I normally contribute that to nostalgia. Maybe we are in a similar boat there lol
(Edited)
Sep 28, 2020
Hyde
1119
Sep 30, 2020
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RealizerOps omg I can't believe I missed this, just saw this message now. But yeah at this point I definitely agree with you I think all the Fostex cans all have their pros and cons so it's more like what would you rather have. Which might explain how I end up keeping the D2000 so far. Haha now I'm too scared to try new one because I feel like I'll just end up disappointed. As for sourcing you could be right, I'm just running off Dragonfly Red so I'm not too sure if that's the right amp for it. But so far I like how it sounds. Initially I was wondering if I should branch off and try other headphones but at the end I figure if I like the Denon house sound maybe I should stick to it as the safer option. There's still 3 days left in this drop so I'll probably think about it. If not I can always order from Amazon Japan later too anyway. I'll keep you updated!
Sep 30, 2020
Realizer
99
Sep 30, 2020
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HydeYep, they all have their pros and cons. If there's anything I've learned from this hobby it's not to chase the "best" because it doesn't exist and never will. Everyone has preferences, and different shape ears lol. Just go for what you like and can afford. There's nothing wrong with the dragonfly red, but it's more for portable use and lacks the power and higher end dac chip of a decent desktop setup. Depending on how your listening setup is I'd say try a decent desktop setup that can power multiple types of cans. The Geshelli Erish is a seriously good place to start especially if you're going balanced, which I also recommend for maximum enjoyment. I'm hearing good things about the Schiit Magnius as well. I don't own one yet but I have various other Schiit amps, Magni 2 Uber, Valhalla, Hel and all their stuff is great for the price. Dac's are a bit more straightforward imo, just buy the highest end chip you can in your budget. Topping, SMSL, Schiit all great dacs for around $100-$250. Make sure to start collecting high quality flac copies of your favorite albums/songs as you go if you haven't already, and use Foobar2k and research the plug-ins. For me Planars and Fostex bio-cell style drivers are the way to go for fun listening. Standard mylar and poly driver dynamics are mostly boring for me these days but I've tried hundreds of them at this point, there's only a handful I really like, and only 4 of them are under $500. haha Anyway hope your search goes well, and yeah keep me posted especially if you find something that wows ya. Btw for what it's worth it seems from you describing the d2k that you might really enjoy the sound signature of the Phoenix for a safe blind buy if you don't have a large size head and ears. Imagine open back soundstage, but keeping the D2k sub bass, with detail on par or better. Still doesn't dig quite as deep in the sub bass as the d2k but the width in soundstage makes up for that, and it has more neutral mids than the V shaped D2k.
Sep 30, 2020
Hyde
1119
Oct 1, 2020
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RealizerLol I haven't try balanced on the Denon/E-Mu yet but I've heard conflicting results regarding the Fostex drivers. Some say they need lots of power some say they are 25 Ohm and doesn't benefit too much from more powerful amp. I think one guy found not too much difference between his Jotunheim vs his laptop lol so I don't know. Though before I was considering Asgard since it's suppose to be a warmer sounding solid state amp. As for dac I was looking at Topping D10S since in general I've been a fan of sabre DACs. But yeah I'm still not sure yet might upgrade headphone first LOL. Sivga Phoenix looks interesting and review seems good. Though unfortunately I have a huge head that's partially why I like the Fostex headphone design since it can extend quite far. Also I'm working at home now and my desk is next to my wife's, I think she'd appreciate me using closed back more LOL. But yeah now I find we have too many options in this hobby it's making it harder to decide. But I'll think I'll figure out soon lol. Thanks again for all the suggestions.
Oct 1, 2020
Realizer
99
Oct 1, 2020
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HydeAh yeah I don't doubt not hearing any difference on a low qual amp to a high qual amp if you're boosting a sub-par signal in the first place. That's why I say make sure to start collecting high quality copies of your favorite music as soon as you can. D10S is a fine starter imo, sounds great for the price. As long as it lasts you more than a year it's a decent buy. Most cheaper dacs don't tend to last long before they start developing popping issues or other problems, so if it's a USB input only dac it's a better option to buy cheap. Only buy pricey dacs if they have also have coax and or spdif inputs along with usb, this way pc drivers won't be the main cause of failure. Oh darn big head eh? Skip the phoenix probably then, or get them bend them try and and return if you can't make them fit haha. The sound signature from them is worth it. Shh I didn't say anything. They do leak a bit more sound than the D2k though. I think you would be pretty surprised with the upgrade to the D10s, and an Erish, it's not the power that makes it special it's the unique sound signature it provides along the entire listening range, and trust me it works great with the D2k. It's just different in a really good way, tough to describe even with many other amps to switch back and forth with.
Oct 1, 2020
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