Showing 1 of 28 conversations about:
FatherOfZane
14
Jan 30, 2017
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Interesting steel. I'd be interested in playing around with/sharpening the knives to understand their edge sharpening/retention capabilities. But that profile is hideous. I guess if you are a classically trained Western chef then the profile might work, but today's more diverse cutting methods precludes such a belly. For this price, better options available.
If anyone got these and needs them sharpened, reach out to me and let me check one out/sharpen it for you. All my sharpening is performed by hand with Japanese water stones, with the exclusion of the very lowest grits (for edge re-profiling/minor chip removal for which I use diamond stones).
Jan 30, 2017
Deaomega1214
470
Apogee Culinary Designs
Jan 31, 2017
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Being that I am the designer of this line, and the man who started Shun, I will respect fully disagree with your assessment. After doing this for 30 years, the hardest thing I've had to learn is that the best knife is the knife if you like the best. We put more curve in these knives for people who have a tendency to chop into the board. They also work better for people who like to do backward rocking motion. Clearly you like a straighter edge, so make sure you check out dragon fire that is coming in April. I think you'll be very happy. The purpose of designing dragon was to address all the different ways people use knives. You will notice the 10 inch knife has a very straight edge, this is because people who buy a 10 inch cooks knife tend to have more culinary experience, and want a straighter edge.
Jan 31, 2017
FatherOfZane
14
Jan 31, 2017
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I respectfully respect your opinion and statement. I should have clarified mine by saying "to me the profile is hideous". I did not mean to imply that the profile is not good for everyone. What you're saying about the rocking method is exactly what I was implying since that is one of the more common cutting methods taught in Western culinary schools. I do prefer the profile of the 10" chef with perhaps less transition near the tip. I look forward to seeing the Dragon Fire!
Since I have your attention, may I pick your brain a little? What is your experience with the steel? How is the sharpening experience? What about edge retention? I've read that the fine edge tends to wear rather quickly, but then settles in to a nice biting edge with good retention characteristics. If the steel has a fairly coarse carbide composition then that makes sense.
Thanks!
Jan 31, 2017
Deaomega1214
470
Apogee Culinary Designs
Jan 31, 2017
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Hi father of Zane,
The edge you are describing was true for the old carbon steel knives. Unfortunately these knives rusted and people didn't like that even though they had a better performance. Unfortunately the only way to make steel stainless is to ad chromium. This ofcourse weakens the steel. The Japanese found that if you increase the density of the aloy and create a finer grain structure, as they did with VG10 and SG2, you can increase the HRC and get better edge performance. however it is still brittle and is prone to chipping. BD1N uses a nitrogen process to treat the chromium molecule changing it into what they are calling a nitride. These nitrides instead of weakkening the steel, actually seem to be enforcing the carbides giving the steel more strength and no rust. there are many nitrogen steels on the market today, most of them aren't so good. It all depends who made them and how good they are. There are also people who are using nitrogen in the heat treating process to cool the steel, and claim that is a nitrogen steel. it isn't. As far as expieriance is concerned, I have been using
this steel for over three years, and we have shipped over 20,000 dragon knives, and never had a chip or defective return. I can also tell you the three knife factories I work with are blown away by this alloy, and the top sharpener in the country has become a partner becasue of this steel. Ken Onion also endorses this steel. I have attached a link to a video that shows me using the first dragon knife. It is over three years old and has been throught he dishwasher on purpose over a hundred times. No I don't recommend you put a knife in the dishwasher. However we did it for testing purposes. I feel it is interesting that you can see how a knife will work after three years of use. Hope that answers your questions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMZnLAd-g68&t=12s
Jan 31, 2017
FatherOfZane
14
Jan 31, 2017
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Thanks for the great reply! Unfortunately the video doesn't seem to be working. On another note, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer and share your knowledge and experience!
Jan 31, 2017
Deaomega1214
470
Apogee Culinary Designs
Feb 1, 2017
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Your welcome, click on the link at the bottom.
Feb 1, 2017
HanSomPa
2
Feb 2, 2017
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Holy crap, thanks for all the information and your expertise. In a world where information is hard to find and costs money, I really appreciate your time and honesty. As a side note, I bought DALSTRONG Gladiator Chef Knife using HC steel and Dalstrong Shogun Utility Knife 6" using VG10 steel, for my mother. I am looking at these and considering buying them for my own kitchen, what are some of the differences I would notice? As far as the DALSTRONG knives my mother has, I've noticed some chipping in the edge already after only a few months of use. Obviously I'm not privy to how hard my mother is on her knives, but I'm curious nevertheless. Will these knives be more durable than the ones using HC and VG10 steel?
Feb 2, 2017
Deaomega1214
470
Apogee Culinary Designs
Feb 2, 2017
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Thank you for the compliment. First of all, HC stands for high carbon. It is not a specific formula like VG10. However, I do know the factory that makes Dalstrong. I use them myself, and for a Chinese factory, they do excellent work. That being said VG10, does have a reputation for chipping. TAKEFU, tried to reformulate it a few years ago, and called it VG-max, but it didn't seem much better. However, I own many knives and have designed many knives that use it. As long as you don't use it like a hatchet, you should be fine. With regards to dragon, we used the BD1N nitrogen steel specifically because it didn't seem to have this problem. After shipping 20,000 pieces, we haven't had any come back. So unless you are Atilla the Hun on knives, you should be good.
Feb 2, 2017
TheOneAndOnly
11
Feb 2, 2017
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Thanks for all the great information.
Feb 2, 2017
HanSomPa
2
Feb 3, 2017
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Again, thank you for your time and for the information.
Feb 3, 2017
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