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Bobraz
2631
Nov 21, 2019
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I wish, oh how I wish this was a so-called True GMT (or Traveler's GMT), in opposition to an Office GMT. You might find the latter more annoying to use than the former. I know I do!!! The True GMT refers to a watch where the half pulled position jumps the local hour hand by 1 hour increments as it does for the higher end GMT movements (Rolex, Omega, Tudor, Grand Seiko) - while leaving the GMT hand on the wearer's home timezone. In opposition, an Office GMT refers to a watch that uses the ETA GMT movement or clone (such as this Glycine), where the half pulled position turns the GMT hand one direction and the date wheel the other direction. With an Office GMT it means that every time you move to a different time zone you have to:
  1. Pull the crown out two positions stopping the watch, adjust the time of the watch to the new time zone moving all the hands on the watch.
  2. You'll have to use another reference time as now the watch has stopped and it’s no longer accurate.
  3. Next push the crown back in one position and wind the crown forwards to return the GMT hand back to where it should be (your home zone, or any other reference time you have to use).
  4. Next wind the crown backwards to change the date (if necessary).
  5. Lastly press the crown in again to finish setting the time and date, and screw the crown down ensuring its water tight once again.
With a True GMT, every time you move to a different time zone you have to:
  1. Pull the crown and change the main hour hand to the local time, while leaving the GMT hand for your home zone, or any other reference time you have to use.
  2. The watch continues to run and your time is still accurate. Only the main hour hand has changed.
  3. Next wind the crown backwards to change the date (if necessary).
The ETA based Office GMT are very frustrating if you have to change timezone several times in a short period of time... I know, I travel for work and I could not stand it any more. I deeply regret selling my Omega Seamaster GMT many years ago. I should have had it serviced instead! The ETA based Office GMT is really designed for someone who - for example in an office - has to track the same one or two other time zones in a regular and sustained manner, without needing to make changes too often... An Office GMT is really not very good for traveling where you'll need to change time zones every few days or so. Note: of course, with an ETA based Office GMT another possibility to minimize the steps when changing time zones, would be to use the GMT hand as your new local time (where you are traveling), leaving the main hour hand on your home time, same as when you left your home. But believe me, doing this induces errors such as nearly missing a train or a plane! If changing time zones often, with a GMT watch you really want to use the main hour and minute hands for your new local time where you are currently traveling, and use the GMT hand for your home zone, or any other reference time you have to use. That's why it's such a breeze to use a True GMT watch such as say, a Rolex Explorer or a Grand Seiko GMT, or an Omega.
(Edited)
Nov 21, 2019
A community member
Nov 22, 2019
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BobrazTrue GMT: Starts at $7,800 for the Omega, $9,250 for the Rolex, and $11,500 for the GS. And the Rolex, good luck finding one for MSRP, if you can even find one. Office GMT: in this case, $589 +36 for the extra strap, $40 more if you wait. There's a reason those so-called "true GMT" pieces start at 13x more than an "office GMT." But thank you for the detailed write up. We all need that clarity between attainium and unobtainium.
Nov 22, 2019
Bobraz
2631
Nov 22, 2019
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Many of the current well known True GMT are, and I agree, expensive affairs. What you say is true, but not entirely complete. There are quite a few Citizen and Seiko watches, all sub $700, that have True GM movement, albeit quartz. A few Alpina, Certina, Mido and Tissot share a True GMT movement (automatic). The Grand Seiko Quartz GMT, can be had for $2.5k (the most awesome quartz watch ever, I believe. Accurate to 10 seconds a year!).
(Edited)
Nov 22, 2019
A community member
Nov 22, 2019
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BobrazThe Mido and Tissot would be using a modified ETA movement, no?
Nov 22, 2019
Bobraz
2631
Nov 22, 2019
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Actually no! Swatch Group actually developed a new movement, the Powermatic, and it has a True GMT variant (Powermatic 80.661)! That's the basis for the Tissot, Certina, Mido and Alpina GMT watches. Let's hope more watches from the Swatch Group get this movement, as I am not overly fond of any of the current offerings with that movement - for now... (although, the Certina isn't that bad - but it's 43mm).
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(Edited)
Nov 22, 2019
A community member
Nov 22, 2019
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BobrazThat's funny, I was looking at that Certina a couple weeks ago. On the secondary market, it can be found for about the same price as this Glycine. No rotating bezel, but according to its spec sheet, it's built like a tank. I just found the Mido, it's in the Multifort series. Looks like one of them has a compressor-style rotating inner bezel. Not bad at 42mm. I like the Combat Subs at 42mm because they're not "tall" and not "high" and the lugs wrap around. I'll have to see if there's a place with that Mido in stock near me. I was under the impression that Powermatics were based on ETA 28xx movements but with less jewels and mods to the mainspring among other things I'm sure, reduced from 4hz to 3hz. There's another Certina out there, it's a 41mm DS Action that has an 80 hour movement and a review mentioned that. 3hz is Seiko territory--I like the 4Rxx movements, but they just don't have as much "sweep." I have a Hamilton khaki field with the H50 movement, and 80 hours is nice.
Nov 22, 2019
Bobraz
2631
Nov 22, 2019
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Please note, I made a mistake mentioning Mido, I think I was confusing with Certina. I believe the Mido Multifort has an ETA based Office GMT type movement. I am just hoping so much, holding my breath, for a 40mm diver / tool watch with this new Powermatic GMT movement! I would buy the Alpina, but I can't get past the fact that instead of a GMT hand, they used a GMT disk. I prefer a (long) hand, otherwise the rest (size, price, color, etc.) would suit me. Is that other 41mm Certina a GMT? If affirmative, can you give me the reference please?
(Edited)
Nov 22, 2019
A community member
Nov 22, 2019
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BobrazNo, it's not a GMT. It's officially called "DS Action Day-Date Powermatic 80." There are 4 references in the series, but the one I can't stop looking at has a blue dial--ref. C032.430.16.041.00. I think those Alpinas are pretty wild, but that GMT disc is kind of polarizing. Either love it or hate it.
Nov 22, 2019
Octoberprince78
78
Nov 22, 2019
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BobrazHonestly with the price point, Id rather go with the Certina. Just hear too many scary stories on Glycine QC after Invicta acquisition....
Nov 22, 2019
A community member
Nov 24, 2019
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Octoberprince78This price point is loaded with nice options. I've been having a hard time deciding what I'd purchase next for around $600. I wasn't looking for a GMT, but somehow one found me. My experience with Glycine is mostly pre-Invicta. My favorite Combat Sub that I own actually may be an "Invicta" model: it's a GL0081, two-tone on a bracelet with blue dial and insert. It still has the ETA based movement which is nice, but I do see a misalignment between the insert and the dial. Nice, but not perfect. But, you can see why I like the Combat Subs: they fit my 7 1/4 inch wrist nicely. I had a 42mm black dial Revue Thommen diver that I recently sold because it was just too "long," and kind of "slabby" on the wrist. I like these because their lugs are short and they curve around the wrist.
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Nov 24, 2019
mrsense
32
Nov 24, 2019
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BobrazDon't for get Alpina Alpiner 4 GMT. It has the True GMT. Alpina did it with a modified SW200-1.
Nov 24, 2019
Arjan
32
Nov 29, 2019
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BobrazI can confirm @Bobraz's observations. I own a Glycine SST (Office) and a Black Bay GMT (Traveler's). The SST is a beautiful watch, but the Black Bay is the one I would travel with for the stated reasons. Granted those watches (and the Rolex or Grand Seiko for that matter) have completely different price points, but the usability difference, once experienced, is very noticeable. For an Office GMT, I usually just set the 24 hour hand to GMT, keep the main hands at my origin time zone and adjust the bezel to tell local time. That's the most painless way I've found to make changes.
Nov 29, 2019
MattBrandon
20
Dec 4, 2019
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BobrazI've never heard the ”Office” vs ”True” before. Make complete sense to me they way you described it. Is this standard terms used by everyone? Do the Office GMT tend to have unidirectional bezels and the True bi-directional? Nothing quite so frustrating as to try to adjust a timezone one a unidirectional bezel.
Dec 4, 2019
Bobraz
2631
Dec 4, 2019
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MattBrandonThanks for the kind words. The terms usually seen in horology circles is 'True GMT' and 'Office GMT'. There are no official terms, but these words have kind of became ubiquitous. Normally these terms refer to how you have to adjust the main and GMT hands, without regards for the bezels. Many True GMT have fixed bezels or even no bezels - the second zone humerals would be found, in those cases (hahaha 'cases'), on the dial (e.g. Rolex Explorer has a fixed bezel, Grand Seiko has fixed bezels or no bezels depending on models).
(Edited)
Dec 4, 2019
tomc1944
2
Dec 6, 2019
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BobrazOr use the Longines VHP GMT where you can change either time zone instantly using app on Your phone on manually with smart crown.
Dec 6, 2019
Bobraz
2631
Dec 7, 2019
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tomc1944Indeed, for those who like the looks, it's a great alternative. I am not overly fond of the dial with the couple of pictograms, and it's a bit too large a watch for my tastes. I ended up buying a Grand Seiko GMT.
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(Edited)
Dec 7, 2019
AUTigerFan
148
Sep 25, 2020
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The Seiko MarineMaster 600 (SBDB011; Spring Drive; titanium case and bracelet; sapphire crystal; true GMT) is ~$3600. Nonetheless, your point is well taken that true GMT watches are typically more expensive than an office GMT.
Sep 25, 2020
AUTigerFan
148
Sep 25, 2020
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BobrazWhat a wonderful watch! Can you provide a reference number? Is the bezel fixed?
Sep 25, 2020
Bobraz
2631
Sep 25, 2020
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AUTigerFanThe bezel is fixed, so this is for two timeszones, i.e. the travel timezone (main hands, quickset), and home timezone (with the red hand). The reference is SBGN005. Wonderful watch! I have since sold it (to fund a Rolex Explorer) and because I do not travel for work anymore, but I'd buy it back in a heartbeat!
(Edited)
Sep 25, 2020
JAone
999
Dec 24, 2020
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BobrazThe Certina is a nice watch,and good size for me; currently just $600usd. or so at Jomashop. Very close to buying it currently!!! Your info. is very helpful,although I don't really have a need for a GMT of either type, but just wanted one for the collection. Thanks for the great info.
Dec 24, 2020
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