Drop + Grace Design Standard DAC Balanced Discussions | Drop

Jul 19, 2019

jaydunndidditI just ordered today lol awaiting the 789 and have the R2R already. Is the optical a normal optical but with the jack adaptor instead of the square shaped optical connection.

Jul 19, 2019

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Jul 19, 2019

LisasonictowerYup, that's correct. This is the adapter I use :

They include a cable adapter for coaxial signals so no worries in sourcing one there. I will warn though, space is VERY limited back there so if your cables are thicc AF, you may have a bad time for the unbal out. My RCA > 3.5mm cable has a fat plug and barely fits.

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Jul 19, 2019

Jul 19, 2019

jaydunndidditThat’s a nice stack set 😩

Jul 19, 2019

Jul 19, 2019

jaydunndidditThat’s great then as I do have the adaptor already but wasn’t sure if that was the actual type. My 3.5 to RCA cable is a fatish connector but I also have a 3.5 to RCA adaptor so one of those will fit. Thanks ☺️

Jul 19, 2019

Keth

760

Jul 19, 2019

jaydunndidditHow goes it compare to the Airist?

Jul 19, 2019

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cavillasenorl

Jul 19, 2019

KethI have the same question.

Jul 19, 2019

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jxliu

1267

Engineer

Jul 20, 2019

jaydunndidditSave some room for the rest of 2019 and 2020. >:D

Jul 20, 2019

Fayne

2585

Jul 20, 2019

jaydunndidditVery nice. Mine’ll show up this week and fit nicely in my stack along side all the other massdrop gear. ^^

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Jul 20, 2019

Jul 20, 2019

jxliuI’m done with MassDrop for the year. Currently waiting for my 789 AMP, Airist and Grace DAC and not to mention other drops I pre ordered like IEM’s and a few things for pc gaming but if Drop(dot)com came out with a MassDrop version of a EQ box like the schiit LOKI I’m all in.

Jul 20, 2019

Jul 20, 2019

GuNStArHeRoThey seriously need to do that, it is the missing piece.

Jul 20, 2019

Jul 20, 2019

LisasonictowerI wish they would do an interest check to if the community wants it.

Jul 20, 2019

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Jul 20, 2019

GuNStArHeRoWell I posted one a while back but there wasn’t much interest to be honest so my expectations are zero.

Jul 20, 2019

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Jul 20, 2019

GuNStArHeRoMy guess is it’s not cool or desirable to mess with the signal whilst many are on the path of everything needs to be perfectly flat and if not then I’m not listening to how the artist intended. Yawn

Jul 20, 2019

Jul 20, 2019

LisasonictowerBIG YAWN 😴

Jul 20, 2019

kimdeug

430

Jul 20, 2019

jaydunndidditYou are constantly impressing me with new pictures of your setup. Well done and nice gears. Regards, Kim

Jul 20, 2019

Jul 20, 2019

KethIt's early in my impressions but the SDAC is the more "neutral" sounding DAC. It's clean and does it's best to reproduce a signal without introducing it's own flavor. It's not "cold" or "sterile" sounding, but it has a black background and and just stays out of the way with music. I very much prefer using it balanced with an SS amp like the THX for a clean, no-nonsense listening session when I really am in the mood for picking apart music and pointing out all the intracacies in a passage. The R2R still has a similar level of resolution as the SDAC but sounds more "analog." It's still a clean amp as well, but it has a bit more flavor/character to it comparatively. Mind you, these differences are small and subtle but depending on the amp, changes my opinion on how much I enjoy the pairing with the R2R. While it seems backwards, I enjoy the R2R the most with my tube amps. It just creates such a warm, romantic, and intimate listening session that you can get lost in without fatigue. I can more readily and easily pick up smaller nuances with the SDAC/THX, but it lacks the mellow, laid back character of a tube amp and ladder DAC. Really, it depends on my mood and what I'm listening to. The R2R/tubes definitely highlight the lows a lot more and gives my cans a bit more life and body. The SDAC definitely sounds leaner, faster, more energetic (not bright or anything like that). For example, listening to the same track via both setups, R2R may make percussion, male vocals, bass guitar, etc. have more body so everything sounds more full. The SDAC makes strings, woodwinds, female vocals, etc. the star of the show without making the sound rounder or softer. I wouldn't call the SDAC sharp sounding, but next to the R2R, it does have that sort of "edge" that makes it sound more energetic. They both have good level of dynamics, no issue with staging qualities at this price point, both built well, and no pops/clicks/etc when changing tracks and sample rates. I guess to go with an analogy, imagine the R2R as vinyl and the SDAC as a digital source. All the same information is present in both, but they go about presenting it in slightly different matters. And which is "better" is all a matter of preference and the cans you use. Really, this is the biggest difference to me between the two. Do you prefer a sound leaning more towards analog, or like a more digital sound? It's like SS vs tubes. No right answer, and all about preference.

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Jul 20, 2019

Keth

760

Jul 20, 2019

jaydunndidditI'm currently running the standard SDAC and 789, mostly listening through a pair of T60RP Argons, or LCD2-F's, which already warm everything up enough that the last thing I need is a DAC or amp that color the sound. I appreciate the comparison! Now I just need to find a comparison between the balanced and single ended SDAC. It might be worth the upgrade just to get rid of that damned amber LED.

Jul 20, 2019

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Jul 20, 2019

KethI have the unbal. SDAC (with O2) so I could compare the two. It's at work though so I wouldn't be able to do it til next week. And yeah, I use the R2R mostly with the Elegia due to its more timid bottom end. The R2R and ZDT really give them some grunt and punch which pairs well with the Elegia's already tight bass. It also smooths out the mids and highs slightly on the Elegia and just balances them perfectly to my ears. The Elear here starts to get a bit too warmed up and can sound a bit gritty and rough. They lose their energetic character a bit too much for my taste but those that find the Elear/Elex bright may disagree with me here. With the Elear and SDAC/THX. I find the Elear to be more balanced next to the Elegia, so the more neutral pairing here does them justice. They're already an emergetic and dynamic can, so let the amp and DAC stay out of the way and let the Elear do its thing . The Elegia here is much more fatiguing and mid-forward. Still enjoyable to a point, but not nearly as much when paired with some tubes and the R2R.

Jul 20, 2019

rslatara

287

Jul 22, 2019

jaydunndidditYou get all the fun stuff :-), might be nice for a TA-20 or a weiliang e600.

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Jul 22, 2019

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Jul 22, 2019

rslataraActually, I've been eyeing the Cavalli/Monolith Liquid Platinum for this reason. I haven't read a single bad thing about this amp and it has gobs of clean, tubey power.

Jul 22, 2019

Fayne

2585

Jul 22, 2019

jaydunndidditThe Liquid Platinum is one of the next ones on my list. The design is very classic Cavalli, with a few cost saving measures in the power system. I've seen nothing but happy in all the forums. Every time I think about buying it MD ends up dropping things I want (like the Airist last month and the ZDT Jr. and SDAC Balanced which arrive later this week). While on the subject of Monoprice/Monolith and Cavalli, the Liquid Spark is a most excellent single-ended JFET/MOSFET amp. All the friends I've bought em for have <3ed them heavily, which totally tracks with what I've seen from the LCX and CTH. His designs are pretty awesome.

Jul 22, 2019

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mikkol79

Jul 23, 2019

jaydunndidditWhat a great comparison, thank u!

Jul 23, 2019

Jul 23, 2019

KethJust following back up on this, but it'll be short and sweet. Truthfully, I cannot discern any difference between the SDACs whether the old one and the new balanced version. I also couldn't tell any difference when swapping between XLR/RCA on the THX 789 (via the input button) sans a slightly louder volume on XLR due to the higher voltage. Volume matching brings it all together and they all sound the same; clean and neutral. So sonically, they're all the same. I'm sure the SDAC Bal is quieter, blacker background, lower distortion etc. when being fed a balanced signal but it must exist in the realm of inaudibility. They differ the most feature wise but I know that's the most obvious thing. Also, I much prefer them moving away from the micro USB. Although a dumb thing for me to care about, it just makes this lil SDAC feel a bit more premium and solid.

Jul 23, 2019

Keth

760

Jul 23, 2019

jaydunndidditThanks for saving me $150! I mean I couldn't care less about any input other than USB, I just wish they'd move to 3.0 for increased power delivery.

Jul 23, 2019

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rslatara

287

Jul 25, 2019

jaydunndidditI kept the D10 over the D30 although I would like balanced into this $100 powerhouse amp. Might get the sdac but I do wish the had used at least a 4490.

Jul 25, 2019

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Jul 29, 2019

jaydunndidditI was wondering if you have the same signals inputting into both the R2R and SDAC balanced per chance and if so what are you using? I’m trying to achieve inputting my optical signal into both DAC’s by using a 1 input 3 output powered optical splitter box. Then I have a USB powered hub and a non powered USB hub (I bought the wrong one initially so ended up with both but ironically need both also to come out of my Apple camera connection kit) Anyway the DAC’s won’t play happy set up like this. The R2R optical indicator flashes white/Red then stays red and won’t play and the SDAC indicator stays white and plays fine. The R2R will only go white when plugged direct leaving out the splitter. I’ve tried all port combinations and even unplugging the SDAC. The USB situation is a mess and again the SDAC plays fine and the R2R really only works if direct with no hubs and if I switch off the port switch to the SDAC and do any number of port switch presses to eventually play. I’m not sure if you can make any sense of this as I’ve tried to explain the best I can. Would you have any suggestions whether that’s with what I have or any other tips at all. My my aim was to have both DAC’s outputting into my passive pre to switch between both DACs into the same amplifier with all my inputs split into both DAC’s. I thought about the topping D10 initially but that only converts USB and in this equation I’m going to also need coaxial and ideally my laptop. So basically inputs required are and in order of preference and the first 2 are a definite must are Bluetooth (optical) Apple camera connection kit (USB) CD player (optical or coaxial, it does have RCA out too which I could use, but I’m trying to use it as transport only) Laptop (USB) If you do have any suggestions they are greatly appreciated if not thanks for taking the time to read this.

Jul 29, 2019

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Jul 29, 2019

LisasonictowerActually, I know exactly what you're saying. And yeah, unless you invest in am actual splitter, it may not be 100% as you want . I use a powered hub as well for the SDAC, and feed it and the R2R from my source (usually my phone). It feels like depending on which source gets the signal first determines how well it'll work. At worst, you have to unplug one DAC, start the other, then plug the 2nd DAC you're not using back in. If you happen to want to switch, you may get lucky amd turning off the R2R for example will not glitch the SDAC when it's time for it to perform. This has been 50/50 for me and I am not certain as to the hiccup that stops it from working every time. If you're trying to save some coins, then this method will work but is obviously cumbersome. I do use splitters where necessary (for my DACs) to feed into the THX which I have daisy chained to all my other gear. Otherwise, an RCA switcher is your best bet and a good one will run $100 or so. Much much more if you want balanced I/O but not in the realm of unobtanium. For coax/optical, I don't split that signal. Afaik, you would need a splitter for that. I rarely swap my optical so that's lower on my totem pole of items to finish up in my stack. Hope that helps!

Jul 29, 2019

Jul 29, 2019

jaydunndidditI’ll agree with your understanding and say mine is similar except it is the SDAC that takes priority. I do have a powered optical splitter and the ISB hubs only work with the SDAC mainly. Define an actual splitter, to split what? My single ended DAC outputs are going into my promitheus TVC, this has 4 single ended inputs and 2 amp out puts, I need the 2 outputs for 2 single ended amps of my portable in bed set up and single end into the THX when it arrives, then the balanced output will go into the THX direct, so I will be listening balanced SDAC for serious listening and then I can choose which DAC for single ended, all this side works flawless but it’s the digital side I’m struggling with due to splitting the digital side of things and to top it off my CD player is not outputting optical 😂. The theory in what I have done is solid but in practice it’s a disaster and this is my first foray into setting up all the digital side. Ho hum lol

Jul 29, 2019

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Jul 29, 2019

LisasonictowerCD player sorted 🙌🙌😅. I have a new plan. CD player has optical and coaxial output so Optical to SDAC Coaxial to R2R Bluetooth optical to R2R Im unsure on how to have both laptop and Apple CCK both simultaneously wired to both DAC’s though. If the powered USB hub can send and receive out of all ports then it is simple. 🤷‍♀️ Powered hub top Non powered bottom

Jul 29, 2019

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Jul 29, 2019

jaydunndidditSo the powered optical splitter works fine to both DAC’s from the CD player but not from the Bluetooth. So im going to output 3.5 single end to RCA into the passive pre.

Jul 29, 2019

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Jul 29, 2019

LisasonictowerA device like this is what I'm referring to when I'm talking about a switcher (I am prob being too general with that term): https://www.schiit.com/products/saga-s .

These are the splitters I use before summing everything to the THX (which is my main source for starting piggy backing for this stack): https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-ULTRA-RCA-Y-Adapter-Inches/dp/B005DL2OVE And https://www.amazon.com/Tisino-Splitter-Balanced-Microphone-Adaptor/dp/B07DHHF2BD/ For the moment, I just run the appropriate splitters as needed but I'm migrating to something like the Saga S for ease of use and it has a remote so I don't have to get out my recliner to switch devices. So, really, a splitter being fed to your additional devices should suffice enough since you have multiple I/O options already. I'm somewhat gimped and reliant on the THX to pass those signals after the fact but your method should be cleaner of you can figure how your wiring needs to be sorted. What I did was list all my devices and draw a diagram of how I wanted them to connect. From there, I calculated the least amount of splitters for sending signals prior to chaining off the THX. This works for my SU8 and SDAC-B for XLR, and I split RCA for the SU8, SDAC, and R2R all into the THX. From there, just turn on the amp and DAC you want and all is golden. The SDAC does act a little silly via the hub, but that could be just a USB issue (which I'm betting on). With a power brick and optical, it's smooth as can be operation and switching wise.

Jul 29, 2019

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Jul 29, 2019

LisasonictowerYou could also try a USB to SPDIF converter for the SDAC as well to get away from too many USB sources, especially with the SDAC being bus powered: https://www.schiit.com/products/eitr Also, I'm just linking the Schiit stuff for context and naming. Any similar device should fit the bill for your needs. I still think something like the Saga S would work the best and it's reasonably priced IMO. JDS labs has a smaller, cheaper version with fewer I/O options as well but no remote.

Jul 29, 2019

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Jul 29, 2019

jaydunndidditYes my promitheus TVC is the same as the schiit splitter you linked with volume control. Thats my my plan to use as little as possible and if I use a a USB to SPDIF I don’t think I have enough inputs of SPDIF but that was part of my thinking when I suggested the topping D10. I’m slowly figuring out what I need to do and it is changing every 5 minutes lol. Thanl you for bpuncing ideas around in this new to me realm of digital connecting. the SDAC and R2R sound exactly the same to me currently using both SE except for the SDAC is slightly quieter with the 0.3-0.4v less which makes my life slightly easier now. When I figure it out and I will I shall let you know my findings. I may be a while though as it depends on how things sound when the THX arrives but I’m next in line.

Jul 29, 2019

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