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View Full Discussion Review is up ! Thank you all for the patience
So you and Tyll like them more than the M1060, while Z, DM3, and a bunch of people on Head-Fi feel like the M1060 is a clear winner.
I am SO TORN
Where are the Z and DM3 comparisons to the 1060?
Thanks In Advance
M1060 new in Canada would be around $450 compare to these that would run about $275.Soulsik did a wider comparison with 5 different amps that has different signatures.Those who audition the Monoprice 1060 used a single amp.I heard the 400i and they sound similar to the HD 600 which I consider one the better headphones sub $400 if these are a bit better than the 400i I be a happy camper.Like the fact they changed the connectors and pads.I like the stealth look.
Thank you for the review!
I assumed Z's preference for the M1060 because of his gushing review of its sound on his YT. DMS3 reiterated his preference of the M1060 over the HE400i several times in the comments section of his 400i review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V73JQtMLYPk. Since 400i and 4XX are very close, I'm 99% sure DMS3's preference swings the same way here.
thank you for understanding my intentions of using 5 different amps
Hmm well Z seems to gush for 90% of things so I'm not sure how to judge from that... :P
Did I miss the part about the particular results with the different amps? Wondering if there was much difference between them and also if any amp was a better combo etc.
that was just for consistency so that I am not reliant on a single amp signature sound. the differences is irrelevant to the testing as it was used as a variable. but if you want to know, i do like solid states with planars because it doesnt hinder the highs. some may like the tube amps because it smoothens it out/ warmer.
Thanks for your review.
One thing I did not understand. You seems to say the HE4XX is better than the rest of HE4 family but at the end, you put it between HE400i and HE400s. Did you mean the HE4XX ranked THIRD?
the headphone were not in any specific order. In case you missed it, I said I placed it between 400i and 400s "in terms of sound signature"
also I do not say 4xx is better. I merely stated the differences and my opinions. it is for you to decide which one is best hence I asked in the "question of the day"
hoped this answered your questions.
Thanks for your instant reply and it clears all my questions.
Why he did this was to show the headphone are very forgiving with different amp signatures like the Senns HD 650 which sound great even with solid state or tubes.The fun part is finding the "unicorn" amp that does well on different headphones.SOULSIk sold me on these headphones.I love the all black look,the simple plugs and even the headband but it looks it could be a sweat magnet.
Personally, I have a very low opinion of Z as a reviewer. It feels like every single headphones he reviews is "the next best thing". Has there been any headphones that he has not gushed over?
That's a fair critique. I've learned to EQ his reviews, so to speak, but I watch his reviews mostly for entertainment. Honest to God he sounds like Louis CK complaining about life.
He's like an average guy reviewer and there's a draw to someone like that to people who aren't 'audiophiles' and just want to understand something in simple terms without following forums and whatnot. He's not the most credible reviewer IMO, but I do watch a lot of his videos and occasionally he'll turn me on...to new gear.
I understand why he may appeal to non-audiophile consumers, but I would argue that his type is the most damaging for something who is not an audiophile and looking to step into the world of good audio. They are the individuals who need useful information the most. When reviewing and reading/listening/watching reviews, the key points are always:
- What sort of consumer is the equipment is for?
- What needs does the equipment have?
- What type of music is the equipment for?
- To what other equipment are you comparing and contrasting them with?
For example, if someone needs a pair of headphones for office use, recommending a pair of open headphones that require a desktop amp is probably the worst thing you can do. if someone listens to hip hop or bass heavy songs, recommending the K7XX would not be proper.
For someone like Z who goes "Rah rah rah! This is the best thing ever! Rah rah rah!" that's not going to help Joe Smoe who everything sounds great to because he is coming from the crap foam headphones that came with his Sony Walkman and it won't be until a few years down the line that he potentially realizes that his cans are best used with an amp and aren't remotely the best fit for his taste in music. For me, Z is a poor reviewer that people getting into audiophile really should not be following honestly.
I don't think I'd agree with you completely. His Reddit breaks down recommendations based on price and use, then even advises how hard to drive each headphone he recommends is. Do his videos best explain this? Perhaps not. There aren't a lot of good hifi equipment reviewers. The smart/educated/informed reviewers lack personality and presentation or are too snobby to relate to the average consumer. Those who are most entertaining are lacking a lot of information. I just saw Soulsik mention in his review that our ability to accurately remember sound is poor which is why he was reading from notes. Now, there's a flaw here in that our ability to remember sound is SUPER short, like 30-45 seconds IIRC, so he'd have to compare short blips back and forth to formulate those thoughts, even if written down. He's one of the only people I've seen mention how poor our memory is when it comes to sound. This is incredibly important...just like it is to understand how cables affect sound, how to match amplifiers, etc. Audio and technology can be quite complicated, very few people are well informed on both.
Regarding audio memory, Z actually stated that in one of his reviews. He said 15s and comically did nothing for 15s and said he forgot what he was listening to sounded like.
That might be part of the problem then. I don't think I have ever read one of his Reddit reviews as I tend to stay away from Reddit. I've only seen some of his video reviews, all of which I very much disliked. I will take a look at some of his written reviews and see if my impression improves.
Elvin that wasn't a ranking it was a placement of sound signature of the 400 series line.He said it sounded more like the 400i than the 400s.We all know how well accepted the 400i was so the 4XX sounds like the 400i with slight improvements at the higher cycles.That was the reason I ordered these because I wanted the 400i "sound".
Yeah, Z is definitely not a reliable source. If I recall correctly, he said the m1060 are the best headphones under $1000. He loves everything except for the m50x.
What's funny is that he and metal571 are RL friends and they hang out. But metal571 is really picky in his reviews. They both listened to the same pair of M1060s too. (Metal listened to Z's.)
I like metal571's reviews. He has an NPR voice, is as comfortable on camera as Z is but his reviews are way more comprehensive and way less hyperbolic.
And yes, he REALLY didn't like those M1060s.
I have to say I only notice M1060 just now. My interest increases after watching DMS's and Z's reviews, almost claiming it the best headphone within $1000. I even have a thought to cancel this order and jump ship to M1060. Then I saw Metal571's and Master Switch's negative review. On 2nd thought, I would stay to this HE4XX for its lower price, better build quality and nearly HE400i sound quality.
BTW, I could get a pair of HE400i right away in China and the cost would be the same as HE4XX, which is around $185. But I think it would be wise to wait for HE4XX.
One thing is for certain, there are a lot of salesmen in this hobby. You have to learn how to distinguish the hoopla from the deserved praise.
And Metal is definitely one of the better reviewers. Too bad he's not as prolific as Z.
I'm not too familiar with Master Switch yet.
BTW, I like the 4XX's design better than the 400i, ... plus Soulsik said the 4XX is not as bright as the 400i. I'm trusting his review. It's the only thorough one available right now.
Im a terrible sales man, let me tell you that much. I major in neuroscience researching human hearing. If I was a marketing major, maybe
Awesome review, I just have a few questions I'm not totally clear on.
So in the video you say the 400i has deeper subbass and the 4xx has more subbass.
Also, the 400s and 4xx share a very similar midrange.
So is this basically a 400s midrange with the treble and bass of the 400i tacked on?
Because if that is the case this is exactly the Goldilocks headphone I've been looking for.
I watched his review and this is my summary:
400: Most bass, but boomy, lacks mid and treble clarity, notoriously uncomfortable
400s: Tight, more separated sub-bass than 4XX, same mids, laid back treble
4XX: Tight, more intimate sub-bass than 400s, more forward treble than 400S
400i: Very similar with 4XX but with slightly brighter treble
I think describing 4XX's sound as "a 400i with Focus-A pads" is apt because Focus-A pads are known to relax and smooth out the treble a bit. Structurally, you can describe it as a 400 with a better headband.
somewhat yes and no. I meant that he400i has deeper rumble from lowest frequencies but it is a little bit out far, while he4xx is closer to your ears and thus you hear more subbass in he4xx.
the rest of what you said is somewhat correct
I no nothing about audio quality. So I am wondering if I should wait for hd 6xx or buy these hifimanhe4xx? Which would be better?
Is there a point to get these if I own the HD6xx? I'm on the fence, very hesitant...
Do you have a proper headphone amplifier or something alike to drive your headphone? If not, forget the HD6XX because the sound quality would be bad without one.
I will be answering this on behalf of everyone whos been asking.
I will be doing a HE4xx vs HD6xx vs K7xx review + side by side demos in the future
I am not able to put spoilers everywhere
But my job is to help and if you are in the position where you must choose ONE headphone out of the xx editions and really need to talk about it, join my discord and talk to me. 1 vs 1 (again, I cannot guarantee I will be able to talk to everyone but I have a good record of doing that up until now)
My pc has a decent amp + dac built in to the motherboard. Msi z170a gaming carbon pro.
My phone is a lg g6 with quad dac
Would any of those suffice?
I goggle your motherboard but unfortunately, there is no specification about the dual headphone amplifier on your motherboard. I could not comment without such information.
IMHO, there is too much noise interference in any PC. Even there is enough power, the sound quality is not good.
For LG G6, there is a high impedance mode, claiming that it could drive up to 600ohm headphone.
let me tell you from my experience I also happen to have sager gaming laptop with ESS Sabre DAC and then another 4 year old HP laptop with unknown dac, I also happen to have planar magnetic headphones monolith m1060 rev. 2 and also I have sennheiser HD 650 as well. now when I use Senn with my gaming laptop it is loud enough to enjoy and can go to higher volumes but with my HP laptop the volume even at max level on my laptop is very tiny and doesn't get loud enough, on the other hand these monoprice monolith m1060 get very loud on my HP laptop and sounds great but when I run them on my sager gaming laptop the sound is very low and even at max level it doesn't go high, so I have found out these planar magnetic headphones will run high enough with any phones, laptop with regular dac's and don't need power to drive them, but the laptops that have built in quality dac's they don't seem to go all out as they should, I think that may have to be that gaming laptops which have decent dacs might have been designed for high impedence headphones and since these planar magnetic headphones have very low impedence they can be driven pretty much easily and also it wouldn't hurt if you do get a decent amp/dac for your headphones, like I have schiit jotenheium which runs both my m1060 and HD 650 with no issues. one little mention HD 650's won't run unless you have a decent dac, hope this clarifies little
I run an MSI Carbon Pro mobo too, with the dual 600 ohm amps. I was pretty disappointed to find it wasn't strong enough to run my 64 ohm AKG 7xx. The Hifiman may have a different result, as the AKG I keep reading are notoriously difficult to run.
lol what Z is good at is getting free stuff because he gushes over their stuff in his reviews. In fairness he does dislike some things and gives you an average joe opinion but certainly not the best audiophile critique.
Jumped on these due to your review. Consistency is critical in this hobby. Thanks again.
Z is great for people that like good audio opinions that aren't overly "Audiophile-y", when an audiophile guy starts talking all i hear is the equivalent of a wine guy going "And it has a slight undertone of chocolate"
Um... no? Z is great for people who have a lot of money, because if you rely on his reviews to figure out if you should buy something, you will buy EVERYTHING. Man literally gushes over each new headphones like they are the best headphones ever.
He gushes yes, but he'll complain to high heaven about the exact same product for ANYTHING they do wrong. If somebody goes through all his reviews and just buys things because he likes them just means said person has bad spending habits.
This is a pretty naive opinion. Let's start with your first assumption, that Z has a good audio opinion. Quite frankly, he does not express anything that suggests he has a good audio opinion. When virtually every video review you put out is basically saying how the headphones are the new best ever, that's really crappy opinion. It also means his "opinion" about audio is literally all over the place. There were literally some headphones he gushed over that he should not be gushing over based on his review of previous headphones that he gushed over. In fact, the vast majority of the headphones world considers his opinion, while somewhat entertaining, very poor or nonsensical.
So with that out of the way, let's discuss the second part of your argument of people who would buy headphones based on his opinion pieces. What sort of people actually watch Z? That would be people looking to be entertained by foolery (it's like Jackass, you know it's stupid but it's also funny because it's so stupid) and people who don't know any better and are watching him due to his high view count that are looking for advice. We can cross out the first group of people who would base purchasing advice on his videos, which unfortunately leaves us with the people who legitimately do need good advice and watching his videos. These are also the same exact people who should NEVER watch Z for advice on headphones.