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YanboWu
8474
Collaborations
Dec 21, 2018
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Hey everyone, we wanted to take a moment to address some of the questions and concerns that are popping up. Samples. When we were initially getting samples to reviewers, there were comments among the community that we weren't talking to the original Panda factory or that we are trying to pull a fast one. The initial samples that were sent out to @Quakemz were to show that we are indeed working with all the original manufacturers. They were sent as a proof of concept and we should've more clearly articulated that upfront to prevent confusion. Tooling. The Panda housing manufacturer has, as of this writing, already repaired the tool. A few pins on the tooling were blocked, but overall, the mould remains unchanged. We are confident that the end product will be the same as the original. The goal was always to get the production version of the switches to reviewers for further verification pending tooling repair. We expect them to arrive soon. We’ll keep everyone updated on the progress of the samples and subsequent production to make sure we’re as transparent and communicative as possible. Thanks!
Dec 21, 2018
Gondolindrim
91
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWuI don't want to beat a dead horse here, since I'll be joining the drop, but I feel really compelled to give my two cents. Pardon me if I get a little acid. I genuinely want to give you the benefit of the doubt and some constructive criticizing. Here it goes. First of all, this is not the first time MD pulls some shady stuff like this on the community. You guys are known to be rather acrobatic with your practices. Keycaps that don't match their announced colors, cases with fabrication defects, many drops that are not delivered when promised. History makes a hard case for you guys. Second, everyone would think that a big company like Massdrop, with money, personnel and know-how, would follow the design process rule number one: never start announcing a product unless minimal working prototypes are available. Even hobbyist-level designers in this community know that a prototype is crucial to the development process. It is simply unfathomable that you guys would even charge for a product for which you don't have mere samples in your hands. This is not Kickstarter, nor is MD a small team of people trying to deliver a new product. Third, this situation leaves a sore taste in everyone's mouths. I'm sorry, but to the average consumer you guys seem like you want to outright fool us by sending unveridical samples to reviewers. Quakemz was one of the inventers of the switch (many claim to invent it, so I'll just say "one of"), so it is strange that you would send him original pandas. He knows what those are like, and there is no reason why you would send him OG pandas: either those were an early christmas gift or you wanted to fool him. The immediate conclusion is that you are acting on bad faith. The "proof of concept" argument hardly makes sense, all you proved is that original pandas are alike to... original pandas. You basically stated a tautology. Lastly, I think it is bold of you to say stuff like "we are confident that the end product will be the same as the original". Sincerely, that's the epitaph on MD's metaphorical grave for me. You mean you sold more than 2k drops (supposing an average 70 switches per drop, the sufficient number for a 60% keyboard, which is sincerely reasonable), meaning around 140k switches, and you don't even have samples for that? Not only this, but we are putting money on a product that was not reviewed by anyone? And your answer is that you are confident? If you guys want a chance at redemption, I suggest delaying the drop end date so that we can see solid reviews on the final product per se. And the final nail in the coffin: you got competition. We have the GSus switches, which were thoroughly reviewed and are pretty close to the real deal, we got Zeal V2, we even have the "Panda killers" like Chickies and SoI. Not to even mention the whole fiasco with Input Club about the Halo switches. Stop releasing statements and get your stuff right, please.
(Edited)
Dec 21, 2018
gimpel
83
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWuThis is a replication project and you sent out the originals as "proof of concept"? Who are you trying to fool by saying that?
Dec 21, 2018
azcs
173
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWuwho runs your PR department? i'll do it for 10% less. edit: thought about it and im going to cancel my 220 switches until we get more clarity, if it ever comes. even if they are legit, not sure if I want to give this site more money.
(Edited)
Dec 21, 2018
mmgreenmms
74
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWuYour reasoning about the samples makes no sense. How is sending old switches supposed to communicate that you are talking to the manufacturer?
Dec 21, 2018
AnthonyOoi
344
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWu"Dude, I can make you a double cheeseburger just like the one you get at McDonald's!" "Really?" "Yup! Here try this." "Holy panda titties on a stick this does taste exactly like a McDonald's double cheeseburger. I need to tell everybody!" ... "Wait.. did you just buy this from McDonald's?" "Yup" "But I thought you said this was a sample." "No, no. You misunderstood. This was just a proof of concept. I wanted to show you I know what a McDonald's double cheeseburger is."


(Edited)
Dec 21, 2018
dyrdevil
10
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWuI appreciate and that you are addressing this publicly, as the conversation is much, much better than silence. I have to agree with the others - unfortunately your statement doesn't really hold water, logistically. You sent original Holy Pandas as "proof of concept" to one of the people that made them in the first place, and allowed him to reasonably assume that they were new samples? Why send anything at all if not to mislead us with this impression? I really wanted to put money down in this drop, and avoided buying from your competition until it is now too late to do so. While I hope the switches turn out as well as you claim they will, it's a LOT of money to commit in a hobby where lots of things cost lots of money. The entire Panda resurrection has been clouded in a fair bit of confusion to all but a few key players. You don't have to explain anything you don't want to explain, but the only way I can see this earning enough transparency and trust to commit to a purchase at this point is to extend or suspend the drop until actual samples are reviewed publicly. I would have been more likely to give you money had no "proof of concept" been sent at all. Thank you for your updates.
(Edited)
Dec 21, 2018
AvalonMabi
73
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWuIf Massdrop really wants to be transparent, delay the drop until actual samples are sent to reviewers.
Dec 21, 2018
cdhoffmann
14
Dec 21, 2018
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AnthonyOoiNailed it
Dec 21, 2018
Jay09
5
Dec 21, 2018
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AvalonMabiSecond it.
Dec 21, 2018
Mounds
61
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWu@YanboWu somehow in a single drop you’ve proven to MD naysayers that you’re up to absolutely no good. I’m still in it out of interest and support for the community but for fucks sake man, this is a serious shit storm of ‘WTF?!’
Dec 21, 2018
A community member
Dec 21, 2018
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mmgreenmmsThe old switches were sourced directly from the factory the produces the Panda switches. They were new old stock. Sure, perhaps we didn't quite think it through, but honestly, we're not out to screw the community.
Dec 21, 2018
A community member
Dec 21, 2018
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dyrdevilI can't make you believe us, but for what it's worth, we never intended to deceive anyone. We are certainly exploring our options and will do everything in our power to do right by the community.
Dec 21, 2018
Jack773
13
Dec 21, 2018
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"new old stock" hahahahah
Dec 21, 2018
dyrdevil
10
Dec 21, 2018
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Thanks for the reply, I'm absolutely hoping to be convinced!
Dec 21, 2018
insanedruid
13
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWuIt's kind of funny that you sent samples of the original switch to the creator of said switch. What exactly did you want to achieve? Can you be a little be more honest?
Dec 21, 2018
mmgreenmms
74
Dec 21, 2018
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What does “new old stock” mean?
Dec 21, 2018
A community member
Dec 21, 2018
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mmgreenmmsNew old stock refers to items that are technically brand new, but were manufactured quite a while ago. In this case, they were original Panda switches that the factory still had on hand.
Dec 21, 2018
dlrra
23
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWuGiven the production version will likely reach Quakemz in January or even March, can the drop please be extended till Feb or April for us to have all the information before deciding? Thanks.
Dec 21, 2018
A community member
Dec 21, 2018
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GondolindrimYour criticisms are valid and they do not fall on deaf ears. Regarding shady stuff: while Massdrop has obligations to its customers, it also has obligations to its employees, suppliers, manufacturing partners, design partners, etc. Sometimes there is information we either cannot or choose not to share for one reason or another. But please do not conflate our occasional silence with apathy. So, as to your points above, I just want to say that we hear you. And as generically unconvincing as it may sound, lest I make promises that I cannot keep, I want to tell you that we are, truly, striving to make continuous improvements.
Dec 21, 2018
ZyBeR
23
Dec 21, 2018
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It's up to you what you share or not, but remember - loyal customers are easier lost than gained.
Dec 21, 2018
Caelestic
39
Dec 21, 2018
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If you want to do right by the community then delay the drop until there are reviews of the first real samples. Easy as that.
Dec 21, 2018
HeroicDreamer
46
Dec 21, 2018
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Can you promise you didn't lie to your customers about Holy Panda? Can you?
Dec 21, 2018
Gondolindrim
91
Dec 21, 2018
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I myself trust that you guys are striving to deliver a good product and I like what you have done for this community, albeit errors here and there. I also agree that you are not politicians. You don't have to be a thousand percent transparent, neither you have the obligation to, but you are just on the wrong way. To us it seems that you are doing this purposedly. This lack of transparency gives MD naysayers (and there are many) a huge point. Still, thank you for the response, I really appreciate. I'll wait for my pandas, and this community will watch closely.
Dec 21, 2018
azcs
173
Dec 21, 2018
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New old stock = we said these are our new switches but they are actually the old ones. TOTAL MISTAKE HOW COULD ANYONE THINK WE DID THIS ON PURPOSE?!?!?!
Dec 21, 2018
YanboWu
8474
Collaborations
Dec 21, 2018
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HeroicDreamerI can - we've not lied about the Holy Panda project.
Dec 21, 2018
HeroicDreamer
46
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWuOK. I'd like to announce more details later. Wait and see.
Dec 21, 2018
HeroicDreamer
46
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWu同是中国人,我尽可能地给你留面子,不想让国外的玩家看笑话。不提之前你们做过什么,即便我知道很多,但那些和我没关系。我开团购只是因为兴趣,你们开你们的团购和我也没关系,但是搞了一帮国外水军带节奏,人身攻击这就有点过分了。你可以当我是虚张声势,我随时可以打电话给吴浩,如果不了解你们的进度我是不可能在这回复的,伟鹏力没搬到东莞之前,我甚至都知道你住的是宝利来。一个团购开了一年都没发货的27找你们合作就开始造谣破坏我的团购,到最后拿出来一个老的熊猫出来耍猴,于情于理这说不过去,这是我不能忍的。我自己也是MD客户,但是MD什么服务你心里有数。既然你的回复这么坚定,到时候我们看结果。我对我所说的话都负责,如果你需要我随时可以给你我国内地址方便你寄律师函。本来我不想淌这趟浑水的,但是欺负人欺负的有点过分了。
Dec 21, 2018
zidG
41
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWuWill the drop be extended? I'm all for waiting this drop and the switch to be produced as identical to the OG holy panda even if it would take longer, since I don't mind waiting and this drop really turns back the sanity of holy panda prices, but would you guys be able to extend the drop end or will stay open(maybe a week?) after the samples coming from the repaired mould is sent out to trusted mk community names and are confirmed to be same with OG holy panda.
Dec 21, 2018
VaclavKucera
55
Dec 21, 2018
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HeroicDreamerCan anyone translate please?
Dec 21, 2018
azcs
173
Dec 21, 2018
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YanboWu"I can - we've not lied about the Holy Panda project." bro i would love to grab a beer with you some day, you must be a fucking incredible poker player. im not even the one typing it and i cant help but laugh when reading this one. this takes dedication.
(Edited)
Dec 21, 2018
nalvarado
29
Dec 22, 2018
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"design partners" Like Input:Club?
Dec 22, 2018
dlrra
23
Dec 22, 2018
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VaclavKuceraI don't understand the whole thing, but in summary, he's saying that he knows all that massdrop has done. He's not going to reveal all because he runs his own GBs and MD runs their own GBs and they're not related. He knows so much that he knew where they are at before they moved to Dong Guan. The 27 who hasn't been able to deliver in over a year came to MD to cooperate to destroy his GB, and in the end used OG Holy Pandas to try to fool others, and he cannot take this lying down. He takes responsibility for his accusations and is willing to give his address to MD for MD to send him a lawyer's letter.
Dec 22, 2018
natroojef
11
Dec 22, 2018
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VaclavKuceraBeing the same kind(Chinese - literally), I've tried my best to respect you, hoping that you won't be a joke to foreigners. What you had done in the past doesn't concern me because I'm not involved in it, even though I knew pretty much what really happened. I started running GB out of interest/hobby; we run our own business and I'm fine with you running your own GB. But then you run GB where you gathered a bunch of hyped foreigners is what makes me feel offended. You can take my words as a bluff but I could certainly contact WuHao right now; I wouldn't be commenting here had I not known the true progress of your current status. I knew you lived in BaoLiLai before Weipengli moved to DongGuan. The party(27, not sure if its a slang or a name of the party or name cursing) that failed their fulfillments for a GB that had been held for almost a year you collaborated with not only sabotaged my GB by spreading rumors out there, but also gimmick-ly using Holy Panda to drum up the sales? These are something that I cannot tolerate. I, too am a consumer of MD, but deep down you know MD's reputation. Since you're that confident on your stance, let's see how it will turn out. I am responsible for what I said, I'm more than happy to provide my address should you be interested in sending me lawsuit. I had no intention on getting involved in this matter, but you keep pushing my bottom line is unacceptable.
Dec 22, 2018
TheNamesTy45
260
Dec 22, 2018
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natroojefYou are a saint. This made so much more sense than what Google Translate gave me. Google Translate gave the drunk version of this.
Dec 22, 2018
insanedruid
13
Dec 23, 2018
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natroojefI think 27 is the guy that runs the mech27 group buy. 27/XX7 is his user name. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Dec 23, 2018
ricson.chua
78
Dec 26, 2018
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YanboWuIf what you say is the case then extend the deadline of this group buy in good faith then. You know why people are so tense about this GB? It is because the timing was just to convenient. This was launch when the GB for GSUS was halfway in. The issues with the GSUS GB is a different story but your timing and promises is what is making this drop so tense. Extend this in good faith if that is not much to ask. :)
Dec 26, 2018
2ndRoad805
25
Jan 26, 2019
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YanboWuI'm kinda skeptical about your reasoning regarding the shipment of OG pandas to @Quakemz. There are plenty of OG Pandas out there. He was the creator. Are we to believe that because you sent OG Pandas, you've demonstrated cooperation with the original factory. By that logic, any OG holy panda owners are also original factory collaborators. Doesn't make any sense. This did not clarify much at all. The only good to come of all this was to get SuperVan to drop his prices. So for that I thank you.
Jan 26, 2019
azcs
173
Jan 26, 2019
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2ndRoad805.... they sent an actual sample out 2 days before the drop ended, and it was confirmed that these switches are actual Holy Pandas. While that doesn't excuse the lie they told the community, what we are buying is the real thing.
Jan 26, 2019
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