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dosto
17
Apr 30, 2017
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Just to confirm, are the "CMY/RGB + Big Blanks + Small Blanks" and "CMY/RGB + Mod" the only options for a 60% keyboard if I want a Base and CMY/RGB kit? Or is there some other wonky way to do it?
I've been going back and forth all week; I really want the CMY kit, but I'm finding it hard to pull when I only need a tab and caps lock key. If it was maybe an additional $20 for both I wouldn't have an issue but for practically $20 a key, with probably no resale for an incomplete mod kit, I'm having a very hard time pulling. So anyone know of any benefit to waiting out for a 2nd drop? Is there any chance they'd change their sales tactics if a 2nd drop does come around? Feels like such a waste of keys and money.. but maybe I just need some convincin'. Ayeeee, 7 more hours.....
Apr 30, 2017
iSythe
8
Apr 30, 2017
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I was trying to decide the same thing. Very frustrating that RGB/CMY is missing only 2 keys.(I understand why, but its frustrating to be so close) Feels like a waste of money or materials to be buying mods or small+big blanks for those 2.
Due to the price of small+bigs, I would suggest just getting mods set. This way it all looks right with no missing legends, price difference is negligible.
In the end I just chose to pass up on CMY kit this round. Just feel like its too much money for a 60% board, where I will have nearly the whole set of mods never being used.
Apr 30, 2017
consolation
742
Apr 30, 2017
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You can go the Base+Colour+Novelties route... remember r2and3 are same just flipped. If Keycap Prophet would just add a tab to base and capslock to colour this would be solved... PLUS, people who like to have r1 & r2 same colour as alphas (makes keyboard look more symmetrical) would be pleased and the 60%ers would burn many offerings on the altars... as is we can hope Matt3o, PUBH just needs to summon an emergency kit of the eldritch tabs + caps lock.
Apr 30, 2017
iSythe
8
Apr 30, 2017
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Just an FYI, you cannot go Base+Colour+Novelties to fill a 60%, you will be a 1.5u(Tab) r2/3 short.
The only way to get a 1.5u r2/3 without getting the mod pack is the small blanks(except maybe the extra mods pack for the r2 backspace, but then you would be spending $30 for 1 key with the wrong legend). And if you are buying that on top of the novelties, you are paying more than what the mods pack would cost.
As much as I would like to be able to get the CMY, for a 60% the extra cost for so few keys feels wholly unjustified. I even suggested to Matt3o to add a beige/triumph tab+caps into the RGB/CMY kits, but nothing came of it.
Apr 30, 2017
dosto
17
Apr 30, 2017
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Even adding an additional tab and capslock in the Extra Mods pack and charging it the same price for Mods makes more sense than the way it's set up currently-- especially since MD and matt3o now have a stake in the 65% premium market with Whitefox. I'd be more likely to swap out a 60% for a 65% if I didn't have to start from 0 to cap a 65% neatly. Why make 60% owners buy a 10KL set when you know its owners prefer a small form factor? And, if you're trying to capture FS/10kl users into a smaller form factor why make it not only easier for them to go straight to 60%, but more difficult to go to 65%? Where they'll likely prefer 65% over 60%? And when you own Whitefox(!)? And isn't there a lot more competition at 60 than at 65? And even if you add the 2 keys to Extra Mods and charge an extra $10 for it, you'd have to print 26 less keys! C'mon MD!!
Lol, I don't get it-- am I crazy? Or am I missing something here? 3 hours left..... ahhhh.
Apr 30, 2017
iSythe
8
Apr 30, 2017
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I have to agree, feels really odd to me. I have to assume its a business decision to try and sell more mod kits but it just doesn't sit right with me. They have made accommodations for other requests in kits but won't accommodate one of the more popular layouts(and requests based on how many have asked) from having to pay for way more than they require. It also doesn't feel like a huge ask to add a tab+caps of some sort to the kit.
I didn't even bother thinking about kitting out my Whitefox with this set, because it would have been another $30 for 3 keys.
Feels like having r4/r5 in every kit has pushed the price up a little too much. Making buying multiple kits a little too costly.
Apr 30, 2017
consolation
742
Apr 30, 2017
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The most obvious one would be to 1) add a tab key in base colour to base; that will make the people who like R1&R2 one colour happy (it make the board lot more symmetrical) and, 2,) add a caps lock key to RGB/CMYK kits so they fill a 60% board. You can just make it a blank so that it works for the control swap.
You can get away with just the novelties if you use an ISO enter and draft the big pipe key into tab duties. Or, just let your OCD wash over you, and use one of the extra keys that are slightly the wrong profile. I'm not going to spend extra 40$ on two keys, so I'm going to just hunt them down second hand. I think there will be a few extra floating around once people kit out their boards.
It's all very strange, I honestly thought that matt3o would pull something out in the end; I still think he might. Maybe a daughter drop with a couple keys or just adjust the sets post drop. It's a few months to production so I'm going to cross fingers and hope.
Apr 30, 2017
matt3o
2388
matt3o
Apr 30, 2017
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no conspiracy here. I just intended the RGB/CMY as an accent. Not everyone for example would use the orange FN/Menu and instead prefer to keep them of the standard mods color. To cover a 60% completely we would need to add not only more keys but also more colors. Adding colors is very expensive because requires more human work during the manufacturing process.
RGB/CMY are already very expensive kits, to accommodate 60% users we would damage everybody else. Also adding a micro-3-keys-only-60% kit is not possible at this stage because really screws logistics. Designing kits is a very delicate business. The best thing we could do (the next time) is probably to make a full 60%-only kit. That was a mistake by my side and I regret that, my goal was to try to reach the lowest tiers to all the base kits so to have a better deal for everyone. I hope you can appreciate that.
That being said, please bear in mind that getting base+mods+rgb/cmy grants you a high resell value, much higher than just the 60% kit. So at least, it's a better investment.
Apr 30, 2017
dosto
17
Apr 30, 2017
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Ah you're right, I forget you'd have to buy 3 kits for a 65% wow.. totally forgot about the directional keys in my little rant. It's for sure a business decision, but still a crappy one. Why make it harder and a lot more expensive to own/kit a Whitefox, where MD probably holds its biggest market share vs. any other form factor they have a stake in, but where every new release of key caps under this format makes it discouraging to even own one.
If they merged 60 and 65 keycaps to a single fully functioning pack, they would consume a huge chunk from the 60% market-- every time a 60 keyboard owner upgrades, a 65 would always be considered. But the way MD sets up selling caps, why would you, when to kit a basic Whitefox, you'd have to pay over $150 to use like half the keys you bought. I even recently wanted a 65% too (and I think every 60% owner wants to give it a shot), and even leaned towards a Whitefox over a Clue. I realized though it really doesn't make sense to if you ever plan on buying caps for it through MD. It's as if they're shooting themselves/Whitewolf in the foot... in a market that's has huge growth potential and appealing to both 60% and 10kl users. That or they didn't think about how their key cap sales model could affect the growth of Whitewolf and the whole 65% market. It'd be like taking them taking a shit and forgetting to wipe-- everything looks fine but smells like s***! lol
Apr 30, 2017
consolation
742
Apr 30, 2017
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I think we are all aware of the kit sprawl and the difficulties of trying to accommodate everyone. I still think that adding the tab key to base mod (or making the bonus round1 key r2 1.5, which would let 60%ers have a use for it too) plus adding one generic blank r3 1.75 to colour kits would have made a LOT more people happier in this drop; with these two sets, you'd cover 90% of the 60% market including (i think?) hhkb users. Especially as the colour kit has the alternate shift sizes tailor made for them. I am sure it was not intentional, but to a lot of people, it ended up looking like the colour kits were deliberately hobbled to make them 'just' not enough for 60%. They just should have been 60%/colour kits from the get go, having different colour accents would have appealed greatly to the 60% crowd, imho.
PS. I think the worry, for those of us on limited budgets, is that with the cmyk kits not being a hit in their current form, we won't see that keyway in the future; so it's now or never for that option.
Apr 30, 2017
iSythe
8
Apr 30, 2017
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I don't blame you for this or anything and I understand your intention. It's just me venting(and wanting to save money)
MD rushing the drop is the problem. Hardest part was that the drop was live before the kits were finalised. Add to that a pretty short buy window for the lead time.
But I'm buying for use not too resell. Even if I want to resell, I live on the wrong side of planet to make that a simple task.
I think I'll just have to hold out and see what happens next drop for the colour kit. Price will probably be more palatable by then, lol.
Apr 30, 2017
iSythe
8
Apr 30, 2017
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Yeah definitely feels like a bit of an oversight. But even then, white fox is still a small quantity compared to the whole market.
It's actually the non-standard shift and pg up/down and other variants have a couple of other non-standard keys that are required.
Hopefully they can look at and work out the kits to be a little better between now and any future drop.
Apr 30, 2017
consolation
742
Apr 30, 2017
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With all the extra shift keys in colour keys and nav cluster keys in Novelties (aside from the missing tab key) ; can't you cover 75% & whitefox with colour+novelties?
Apr 30, 2017
consolation
742
Apr 30, 2017
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P.P.S. How difficult would it be to produce this in Alps stem now that the molds for cherry are made? This is one group that is begging for better caps, topre fans can do slider swaps, but there is nothing for the Alpinistas out there. They'd swarm to a decent drop like flies to a pig carcass that was left to soak in a septic tank for a month and then had a bucket of honey splashed on it!!! And, we'd be so grateful, anybody complaining would have their typing hands chopped off.
Apr 30, 2017
iSythe
8
Apr 30, 2017
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I think so. Can use the "any keys" for the non-standard side row of keys. But missing Tab just seems like a big deal, lol. A commonly used key missing is too much for me, especially when it comes to the cost. I want my keyboard to look right if I am spending this much money.
Apr 30, 2017
iSythe
8
Apr 30, 2017
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Either way, I can't complain too much. I didn't get involved in this set until the drop went live, so can only ask for so much. Still an awesome set that I think I will enjoy using(even if it may not be as colourful as I would have hoped :P).
Congrats on what looks to have been a successful drop. I'll be interested in the final numbers for this.
Also look forward to everything else that you have in the pipeline.
Apr 30, 2017
matt3o
2388
matt3o
Apr 30, 2017
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granite will be released on Alps soon (not on MD, though)
Apr 30, 2017
dosto
17
Apr 30, 2017
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I think even just adding the keys to the Extra Mods/Whitefox even for a slightly higher price would of been better for a 60 user; 60 users would have a more realistic use for the extra keys and opt for a 65 in the future (rather than a 10kl/fs option the normal Mods pack would give us.) Am I correct in assuming if that was the case, you'll only need to grab a novelty pack or source your own arrow keys? Which if true, doesn't seem like a deal breaker for either case; and coupled with a price increase to Extra and the bonus of novelty keys for roughly (or a little bit more for) the same price as Base+Mods+RGB/CMY is a lot more justified than having incomplete 10kl keys a 10kl user wouldn't buy and a 60% user wouldn't use. At least, in this situation the keys would have value to users despite it being 'incomplete' and actually help grow and help move users to a 65 platform MD has a stake in.
I don't know maybe I'm totally wrong about this.. I'm totally banking on 65 just missing the arrow keys in extra lol. It just seems the parity for capping different keyboards seems way out of whack that bothers me most. Regardless, I joined the drop anyway, but I don't feel too goodabout it.... you winnnnn Massdrop!! lol
Apr 30, 2017
Athtel
303
Apr 30, 2017
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I love you and hate you (or at least my wallet does) all at the same time. Where is it happening?
Apr 30, 2017
consolation
742
Apr 30, 2017
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is the Granite drop dsa or sa?
Apr 30, 2017
justforfun
72
Apr 30, 2017
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One of the reason I canceled my order. Cannot justify $140 for keycaps half unused. 60% owner here, looking to get Base + CMY but forced to get the Mods to complete tab + caps lock. Will wait for Borealis or Danger Zone or something else, crossing my fingers they'd come in pbt or in this form factor.
Apr 30, 2017
schoolbus
1292
Apr 30, 2017
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granite has never ever not been DSA.
Apr 30, 2017
joeym
10
Mar 16, 2018
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As of now there are zero sculpted spherical ALPS caps. The only option that I know of that is at all reasonable is scavenging from certain typewriters.
Please, pretty please, man intense please release your profile in alps mount.
Mar 16, 2018
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