Drop + MiTo GMK Laser Custom Keycap Set Discussions | Drop

Drop + MiTo GMK Laser Custom Keycap Set

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Nov 7, 2017

Are there plans to add the advertized iso support to gaijin/kobe? They are missing the key next to enter.

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Nov 7, 2017

pomkI already addressed to this topic and would rather not touch the composition of the kit. But what symbol do you think should be present in the keycap, in the event we manage to add it?

Nov 7, 2017

MiToThen at least remove the mention of ISO support from the drop page. The keycap should of course be the one from JIS layout for kobe. For gaijin I’m not too sure, probably the same as is above enter in ansi layout as that would match the US ISO layout.

jrjr2

763

Nov 7, 2017

MiToThis one is the ISO UK: https://imgur.com/a/wz1Ka
I really like the crocodile key used in ISO, but that is r4 next to L-shift. https://imgur.com/a/4FEqe (if using this one, you can use this as R4, and move the current R4 key to R3 profile next to enter)

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Nov 7, 2017

jrjr2Just no! At least have (all of the) the keys map to the same, non-imaginary, layout. In the case of gaijin that would be US_ISO as all of the rest map to that one.
@MiTo For kobe I checked the JIS layout and even there it would be the same key as is above the enter in ANSI layout. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_input_methods#/media/File:Surface_type_cover_JIS_keyboard_layout_blue.jpg

While you are at it, it might be nice to fix the rest to match JIS as well. The R4 key on the left should match the one next to right shift and the R1 key on the left looks a bit different (should be some utility key for all I know).
I also found your initial comment on the kobe-gaijin iso stuff ( https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-mito-gmk-laser-custom-keycap-set/talk/1870126 ) and I have to disagree a bit on that. There is no need to invent keys, as you can just use an ISO keyboard in your PC, hit buttons and see what the outcome is. The key next to ISO enter on R3 in my experience always produces the same character as and ANSI keyboard produces from the 1,5U key above ANSI enter key.

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Nov 7, 2017

pomkIf you think for a second there is no Hiragana symbol that could possibly be added to that position, the JIS layout doesn’t use a short left SHIFT like ISO, so they don’t have a R4 backslash like ISO there. This keycap was repositioned to the one by the left side of the ISO big ENTER, by the Japanese authorities, in the JIS layout. Hence there’s no Hiragana equivalent to ‘ # that could possibly be added, unless you want me to invent a random kanji to make you happy.
A crossover between the japanese layout with the European layout is simply impossible, unless you are okay with using two keycaps with the same exact symbol. Either that or you want me to 100% reproduce the JIS layout and I’ve been saying since the interest check days (that ran for over a year) that although this was worth looking at it wouldn’t be something exactly doable in the end. We are not reproducing the JIS layout because there aren’t even 10 people interested in that, these Japanese kits are merely aesthetic, for decoration, mostly for ANSI users but ISO users too. That’s the main point, the supporters of the project seem to enjoy the aesthetic and aren’t exactly worried about JIS. We can’t even have a JIS spacebar because the manufacturer simply can’t make it. The investment that would be required for that could be used to source convex 1.75u, 2.25u and 2.75u spacebars which is much more of an urgency to our community than JIS - which pretty much no one wants.
The Gaijin and Kobe kits are indeed compatible with ISO because they come with an extra R4 backslash keycap that can be combined with the short left SHIFT and if you really want, also the ‘# from Euro. I also previously said that Gaijin and Kobe must be consistent and have the same numbers of keycaps, we don’t want oddities and favorites being played... I hope you understand.

Nov 7, 2017

MiToI really am just asking for a secondary key with the same legend, as is in the US_ISO layout. You are saying that it supports iso, but are including only one of the two necessary keys for that. I understand fully the complete look you have for Gaijin set and I appreciate the aesthetic, but for the Kobe not to follow JIS is a bit strange to me. Would not the aesthetic be the same for the layman, yet it would be actually functional for someone? I would also appreciate the thought that it does map to something in the real world even if I would not use if for that purpose. Right now my OCD is all over the place when looking at the Kobe set as it is just too close to being perfect. My calculation suggest that only one extra key would have to be added and two glyphs would need to be made. See:

I fully support the choice of not spending time on the rest of the JIS keys as that would be a huge effort for the sake of maybe 5 people.

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Nov 7, 2017

pomkThank you very much for taking your time to create this image. Would you be able to however provide a higher resolution of the glyph so I can understand what it is? No need to include the entire kit itself.

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Nov 7, 2017

MiToI think that it is this one:

Nov 7, 2017

pomkThank you very much, that's greatly appreciated. Why do we need this to be R1 though?

Amnesia1187

544

Nov 7, 2017

pomkThis is what was posted on geekhack as missing:

Nov 7, 2017

Amnesia1187The R4 one is already present in nearly all keyboards on R1, if we offer it on R4 as well it would be a duplicated symbol. I also Couldn't invent a counterpart for these designs on Gaijin, hence why they are not present. Also, if we add this R3 one then again we will have a duplicated since on ISO keyboards that one sits together with the left SHIFT.

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Nov 7, 2017

MiToBecause it is in the jis layout at that position See: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/KB_Japanese.svg

Nov 7, 2017

pomkI see, this sort of solves the Kobe problem, but we still are losing on the Gaijin side. This was the biggest issue, I couldn't make exact twins, I had to compromise something. This "something" was the ISO crowd.

jrjr2

763

Nov 7, 2017

MiToMito, for the kobe kit. Would you consider a single R3 key, but you can use a legend that is already used? Most people wont notice it, but it will help with the uniform look for ISO. It also wont be so expensive since you already have the mold.

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Nov 7, 2017

jrjr2This could be a fancy workaround but different rows require different molds, so if that route were to be pursued might as well offer the proper symbol. Again we are back at square zero. As you can see this is a far more complex situation, for something seemingly simple. I hope you guys understand after this discussion that random calls weren't made, everything was done the way we did because of the conditions. I tried to come up with a solution several times, the most tangible one was removing the ISO players of the playground. A sad solution but at least it was a solution.

jrjr2

763

Nov 7, 2017

MiToOh i see. Well i think most wouldn't mind having one of the extra keys from R3 as the ISO filler. If not in the kobe, can always in the ISO kit.

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Nov 7, 2017

MiToThen just please remove the comment on ISO compatibility from the drop page, thanks! GLWB

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rioc

166

Nov 7, 2017

MiToBlocknet Icon ISO Enter... either in the Blocknet kit, or either of the Kobe/Gaijin kits. Would really make my day

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