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Showing 1 of 660 conversations about:
Will
8470
Chief Product Officer
Jul 20, 2021
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Hey Friends,  When we collaborate with brands, we often use X’s to replace some digits in the model number. This started with the Massdrop x AKG K7XX, and it’s meant to say this headphone is the logical conclusion of that product line.  In February, we hit our goals from a measurements perspective, but our subjective evaluation, and those in our community validation process aligned to the same conclusion: the 8XX didn’t sound like a logical conclusion for the HD 8 series, it sounded like something between the 800 and 800S. We achieved a 2.5db bass increase from the 800S, but because of the cavernous earcups and resonant characteristics of the housing, subjective impressions were too close to the original. Cup volume doesn’t have the same diffuse effect on mids and highs, but beyond the light bass, we were still wrestling with the 5-6k resonance, unable to eliminate it.  Given all of that, we returned to Sennheiser and continued to iterate on tunings with Jermo and his team. After several rounds, we arrived at the final 8XX tuning, pictured below. 
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On this measurement, you can see a ~5db bass increase over the 800S from 20-600hz, followed by an increase in the highs to maintain the aggressive detail we all need from an HD8 series headphone.  FR is important, but resonance and distortion are equally important to overall tonal balance. See the CSD below, this is the final HD8XX tuning. We have dramatically reduced the resonance of the 8XX compared to 800 S and original 800, especially around the troublesome 5-6k region that so many in the community have modified their headphones to tame: 
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The tuning, reduction in 6khz resonance, and decreased distortion of the 8XX are achieved via changes to the damping scheme of the housing and changes to the driver.  Overall, we have resolved all issues, and created the logical conclusion of the HD800 series. The HD8XX is the best dynamic headphone in the world for the money.  It’s probably the best headphone in the world for the money, period.   But in the immortal words of Lavar Burton: “You don’t have to take my word for it”: review embargo ends in an hour (10am PST). Only a couple people have review units right now, but we’re shipping more in the weeks ahead.  Also, Senn has agreed to offer post-warranty repair services for the HD8XX via service centers in the US. We're pushing to see if they'll support other countries, but INTL customers should expect to pay for shipping to and from the US if they want an out-of-warranty repair. EDIT: https://drop.com/buy/drop-sennheiser-hd-8xx-headphones/talk/2843477?utm_source=linkshare&referer=R6FTNP See this post for latest shipping update 9/16/21 A huge thanks to everyone who supported this project. This headphone wouldn’t exist without your pre-orders, and the headphone community would be worse off. You made this real for the community and we cannot wait to ship.   
(Edited)
Jul 20, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Jul 20, 2021
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WillAwesome that this ships within just two month’s time from now instead of near the end of the year… that will feel much sooner for most people! Without the cup resonances, not only should the headphone sound clearer, but it ought to be more comfortable to turn up the volume and therefore make the mids and bass more easy to perceive… stacked on top of the broad bass and mids boost evident on the frequency response curve. The proof will be in the listening, however. As I learned more, it’s become obvious that part of the reason headphones never sounded like their frequency response graphs to me is because music rarely produces one pure tone/frequency at once: the performance that matters is how does it sound when playing multiple tones at once, and how do they interact with eachother. This question ought to be answered soon if a review embargo is ending! If the HD 8xx resonance has been dramatically reduced, this could be a more significant innovation and change to the listening impression than the other changes I heard in the earlier, prototype tuning that also went out to youtubers and other reviewers. It will be awesome to see updated music listening impressions for the people who had a few days with the earlier model 😉😉
Jul 20, 2021
Mirado
26
Jul 21, 2021
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WillThis post surprised me, in a good way. Obviously getting the units sooner (as long as they are finished cooking) and getting post-warranty support information are just net positives. I feel like the 2nd half of that should have been sorted before launching this campaign, but I assume things were pretty complicated behind the curtain. I can't help but wonder about the way this campaign has rolled out, however. It feels like Drop shot themselves in the foot multiple times before all the pieces finally fell into place. Looking back, you can see a bit of a pattern emerging: 1) The campaign goes live, people get disgruntled about the price. While $500-$600 was admittedly unrealistic, asking over $1k (even with the store credit) really put this thing on the wrong foot from the start when going even $999 would have helped deal with the mental sticker shock. 2) Pre-orders are slower than expected, campaign switches from limited to unlimited 2) To try and smooth that over, a bunch of impressions are sought after, but the response is less universally amazing and more "it's good but not staggeringly good, especially if you already own an 800(S)" 3) This plus the warranty quibbles, lack of balanced cable, Sennheiser's sale to Sonova, etc cause pre-orders to more or less stall out. I haven't checked the page in two months and I seed we still haven't hit 1k (remember, the initial limited run was going to be 3k) 4) This next round of news is released, the embargo is dropped, the tuning changed to its final design, production moved up, etc I am excited to read the reviews, and plan on keeping my pre-order if the results are more positive than before (I would have kept it anyway as I don't own either the 800 or 800S, but that's besides the point, I need to see if the tuning is more in line with what I hoped), but I can't help but think how this rollout would have went if we had a $999 8XX with a balanced cable in the box and confirmation that we could at least send the thing into a service center for out of pocket repairs once the warranty is up. My assumption would be that we wouldn't have seen the FR and graphs so early into the production, or that we could have wound up with the original tuning rather than the result of the extra effort. At the very least, the whole tone of this campaign would have been quite different. So much of the initial batch of information now feels reactionary to the response people had and a fair amount of it now seems redundant given the changes made. I'm just rambling to myself at this point, but I am a bit more excited than I was thanks to this news. It's just something to think about the next time there's a $1k+ pre-order on offer. Maybe get a few more ducks in a row before you go live next time? Either way, a thumbs up from me.
Jul 21, 2021
omniweltall
76
Jul 21, 2021
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WillTwo thumbs up, Will.
Jul 21, 2021
edahl
86
Jul 21, 2021
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WillI don't understand this tuning. The first one had a strange dip at 1.5khz. The 800S already lacks a lot of energy between 1.5-3.5khz. The new tuning, though the normalization is weird, substitutes the dip with a further scoop. What's up with that?
Jul 21, 2021
kayaka
62
Jul 21, 2021
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Will@Will Appreciate all the hard work you and your team put in to this. While we wait for additional reviews to be posted, is it possible to tell us a bit more about what changes the team made to tune the response further? Pad adjustments etc?
Jul 21, 2021
AgentFox
16
Jul 21, 2021
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WillYou somehow made it look even worse than before, Disgusting. I was considering an 8XX when I thought it would just be a rebranded 800S but all you did was make it worse.
Jul 21, 2021
voo.hoo
76
Jul 21, 2021
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MiradoFrom another perspective you can applaud Drop for being reactionary. A benefit of these campaigns is that the product can evolve based on community feedback. Let's remember that Drop thrives on the community and is facilitating an unprecedented headphone consumer experience with all of these collaborations with amazing audio companies!
Jul 21, 2021
Mirado
26
Jul 21, 2021
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voo.hooOh sure, I'm certainly not going to fault a company for making tweaks to a product after a lackluster response from their consumers. My point was more about how to better manage expectations in the future to avoid a little bit of the rollercoaster we are on. I'd certainly rather have Drop in the game doing these colabs vs them not, as more choice has never hurt anyone.
Jul 21, 2021
spartaman64
33
Keyboard Club Member
Jul 22, 2021
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Willwhat have you done
Jul 22, 2021
fyonn
18
Jul 26, 2021
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WillSo it's been 6 days since this announcement. I've not seen any new reviews now that the embargo has been lifted. Are there any youtube reviews or reviews not in the comments section of this site?
Jul 26, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Jul 26, 2021
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fyonnWell, the embargoes might be over, but the reviews might not be ready yet. As for where the impressions/reviews will be written, it remains to be seen… with a few reviews in the discussion thread already stickied and quite long, I posted mine as a separate discussion so it wouldn’t be buried: https://drop.com/talk/82618/hd-8-xx-first-impressions-from-an-hd-800-owner?utm_source=linkshare&referer=Z2JXCA Hopefully Drop decides to give me a second listen with the new tuning, so I can put an updated description into that thread. Thanks for checking it out! More “likes” means it’s more likely Drop will send the production version my way :)
Jul 26, 2021
verifonix
1181
Jul 31, 2021
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WillHey @Will are these no longer shipping outside of US? :(
Jul 31, 2021
Username_is_already_taken
43
Aug 2, 2021
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WillCould you move the curve for the new tuning so that it is normalised at 1kHz with the original (as is the standard way of overlaying graphs)? This is a bit hard to read.
Aug 2, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 3, 2021
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Username_is_already_takenI asked Head-Fi about that… they said it was normalized at 1.5 kHz and 90dB SPL to show the similar treble response and difference in the bass. The shape/difference is what matters, 1 kHz normalization is the most common, but when you listen the volume will depend on what freq & loudness you feel comfortable with.
Aug 3, 2021
Username_is_already_taken
43
Aug 3, 2021
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EvshrugThe thing is they said the new tuning has '~5dB bass increase over the 800S from 20-600hz' but that's only true when the curves are normalised the way it is now. If normalised for 1k it becomes more like a 2.5dB increase (actually some regions become the same if you look at the 20-200Hz region, don't know why they said 600Hz which has no business being a bass frequency...), so the claim on bass boost might be exaggerated. Also, if the point of normalising for treble response is to show how untainted that range is, one would have to wonder how much they boosted the other ranges (or more likely, how they lowered the treble while keeping the same general shape) That would corroborate with their claim that 5-6k region resonance has been reduced. Again, it's just a little confusing to interpret for me :)
Aug 3, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 3, 2021
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Username_is_already_takenThe key thing is that the balance of frequencies doesn’t change, no matter how they line up two freq response charts. I agree, it would have been more consistent if they both hit 90 dB SPL @ 1kHz for our “0” baseline, but if you really want, you can subtract about 1.875 dB or 3/4 of a step on the graph to see how close or far something is from a 1kHz alignment. If you do so, the HD 8xx will still have a greater bass emphasis than the HD 800S, and the HD 8xx highs and upper mids will be ~1.875 dB lower than the HD 800S. While I think normalizing at 1kHz is more common, I think it’s easier this way to see how the balance has shifted: the highs and upper mids are about the same, but the lower mids and bass are significantly more present. Since 1.5 kHz has lower sensitivity than 1 kHz, you could “hear” this comparison just by turning up the HD 8xx a little louder. Perhaps it would satisfy more people to see both charts (and I think people like Crinacle and Purr1n will make charts aligned at 1 kHz), but the end result is still pretty clear when you think about it. Lastly, the resonance wouldn’t show on a frequency response chart. Resonance here is referred to as the time it takes a note to decay… and they’re saying the 5-6kHz region stops resonating sooner. These upper mids (they sound pretty high) will therefore sound about as “loud” as before (as shown by FR graph), but sound crisper and better separated than before (as shown by the CSD “3D waterfall” graph). This ought to have a few effects reviewers note (I hope to find it to be the case when I get a listen). There should be less sibilance (esss and tee sounds shouldn’t seem to stick around and “catch” as much, unless your own ear canal is resonating) and also it should be easier to detect the depth and distance of a sound in the soundstage (should help people who thought the soundstage was “too” big and unable to make intimate music sound “up close and in your personal space”). I actually think it’s good that the bass still has a fair bit of resonance; with too little bass resonance comes a sound that is lean and “dry,” we expect a little bit of rumble when we hear a big bass sound. That’s the theory anyway… it will be important to read listening impressions.
(Edited)
Aug 3, 2021
Username_is_already_taken
43
Aug 4, 2021
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EvshrugI actually really want to buy the 8XX, but I also want to make sure the differences I am seeing here are going to make it a better purchase than the 800S. I understand the shape of the curve is unchanged, so the fundamental character is the same. But when we put 2 curves together we are actually trying to COMPARE them. The data doesn't lie, but how it is presented can. By your logic, it would be fine to normalise at 10Hz or any other frequencies because hey, the shape of the FR is unchanged! Also, the graph literally says it's normalised for 90dBSPL @ 1kHz (or at least I think that's what it means), so why move it?  Besides more mids and bass, the way it is presented also gives the impression that the 8XX is going to be louder because it seems to have more mid presence, the range where most of the music is in. People who understand the relationship between volume, dynamic range and how we think 'louder = better' will take this into account when doing their own volume-matched comparison and end up turning up the volume with the 800S anyway. At the end, this adjustment might just bring them closer to 1kHz normalisation. Quite unlikely for people to volume match for treble, if I have to guess. So again, I have to doubt the usefulness in aligning the treble range. From what I estimated with a ruler at 1kHz I think the 2 curves differ by a little less than 2.5dB. This means places like 30-50Hz and 100-150Hz would be identical, while places like 60-70Hz would be weaker. So does that mean we are actually getting more bass? I'm not too sure. I will admit I don't know much about CSD, but this article explains what I said regarding how lower resonance can be achieved by lowering 5-6K volume. Above 200Hz resonance is interpreted as bumps in FR based on psychoacoustic researches. So all this talk about 6k ringing could just be people not liking how elevated that range is. Any thoughts on the article? https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/csd-cumulative-spectral-decay-really-important-jason-dai
(Edited)
Aug 4, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 5, 2021
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Username_is_already_takenFirst of all, I commend you for wanting to look further rather than feeling you’ve arrived at a conclusion. I try to keep that same attitude… most of the time. Second, I was sort of awake around 3:30 or 5:30 this morning, doing some last minute home maintenance and drilling by 9am, and then I just finally arrived at a cabin at 12:15 am for vacation after 11 hours on the road… so don’t expect any profound thoughts 😅 To start answering your questions… I asked Head-Fi why it looked like it was normalized at 1.5 kHz instead of the 1 kHz in the label, and they confirmed that it actually was normalized at 1.5 kHz to show the similar treble response and the difference in the bass. A little difference at 3.5 kHz, more substantial difference across the lower half of the graph. Someone who is sensitive to 5kHz - 6 kHz may want to volume match for treble, to see what the rest of the graph looks like if they turn down the volume enough not to feel like the treble is fatiguing. However, graphs are tricky. I pointed out the rise in sensitivity around 3.5 kHz, but Drop and Jermo have stated that was intentional to balance out the change in the lower tones, so that the HD 8xx isn’t perceived as a much darker headphone than the HD 800S. So, the way the different frequencies interact with each-other (especially when multiple tones are playing at once) isn’t always apparent from looking at a graph. Another tricky thing is to consider that this is the FR curve with 1 kHz (or 1.5 kHz) playing at 90 dB SPL (decibels Sound Pressure Level)… that’s quite loud, and most people would want the volume to peak at 90 dB (or less, 90 dB is gas-lawnmower loud!) for a moment but on average hover around a much lower volume, and the FR of a headphone can change when played at lower volumes. Masking is another factor! I don’t assume I know all the different factors, but you can see why I feel like some aspects of sound are easier/quicker comprehended in listening demos 😅 Yes, I agree that at 1 kHz, the two graphs differ by a bit less than a tick mark (2.5 dB) @ kHz, and I estimate the difference is around 1.875 dB (3/4 of a 2.5 dB tick mark on the graph). Keep in mind decibels are logarithmic (like the frequencies on the FR graph keep getting closer together 😅), so 2 dB is technically double the volume, though most humans perceives 6 dB as loud enough to sound doubly loud. Anyway, I NEED to sleep! I’ll take a crack at deciphering that jargon from the LinkedIn article for you later, because a lot of it is not self explanatory (and clearly English isn’t his first language, though I’m sure his English is much better than my French/ Spanish/ Japanese). But Drop agreed to let me be part of the review tour, as early as some time next week. Anything specific you want me to listen for? I really want to check out the sub bass at the end of “Undisclosed Desires” by Muse, as well as play some Returnal from PS5. Last time, I live streamed my HD 8xx test, so you could AMA me during my broadcast 😎
(Edited)
Aug 5, 2021
Phoneheadfan
Aug 6, 2021
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EvshrugYes! Can you please comment on how sharp or bright the upper mids and treble sound compared to the 800S? I'd like to know if it sounds just as bright or smoother. I'd also love to know if the 8XX is sibilant. Thanks! I will be eagerly awaiting your review on head-fi.
Aug 6, 2021
JuliusCaesar
9
Aug 6, 2021
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EvshrugPlease let us know if this headphone is bright. I had the original HD800 and as a person who is hearing impaired with tinnitus, wears hearing aids it was brutal. for me I’m hoping this headphone has great vocal clarity and no harshness all around. This is the reason why I haven’t preordered, need more feedback from others. Thanks 😇
Aug 6, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 9, 2021
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Phoneheadfan& @JuliusCaesar, Just wanted you two to know I read your questions on the same day you posted them… but obviously I haven’t heard the final production HD 8xx yet. I do have to point out that while I did buy an HD 800 about five years back, I don’t have an HD 800S (I have heard probably 4 different ones, but it’s probably best if I stick to what I have on hand). In advance, though, I would say that the HD 800 is airy and bright, and some people may find it too bright, but it has measurably low distortion or phase issues. I was worried I would find it too bright when I got it, and my ears do get… tired, but I don’t find it rough, harsh, or glaring, just strong. The HD 800 are very responsive to what you have before it on the audio chain, so have a good amp, DAC, source, and as close to lossless music files as you can get. It’s very revealing of low bitrate music (like MP3s) and the flaws in compressed music that are particularly obvious in the highs. Second, a headphone (or speaker) can have strong treble, but not be sibilant. Some people say anything with treble energy is sibilant, but that is not the definition. Sibilance is when a sound like vocal “ess/shh” or “thh” seems to “catch” your ear, be over emphasized, and seem to ring for a moment longer than it should. It’s like someone talking normally until suddenly having a lisp around those particular sounds. Sibilance can be caused by resonance in a headphone, but more often it’s a flaw of the recording itself. Too much volume compression (like many songs created during the loudness wars) or file size compression (MP3) can cause sibilance, audible even on the famously smooth and laid back HD 6XX/HD 650. With that said, @JuliusCaesar, it’s possible the HD 8xx won’t be sibilant but enough sound pressure levels (SPL) may still aggravate your tinnitus. The HD 800 doesn’t make my ears ring, but I can’t tell if the HD 8xx would make yours ring.
(Edited)
Aug 9, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 17, 2021
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JuliusCaesarProduction unit arrives today! I got the green light for photos too, so I’ll be showing it alongside my HD 800 and HD 820!
Aug 17, 2021
JuliusCaesar
9
Aug 17, 2021
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EvshrugThat's GREAT! looking forward to it.
Aug 17, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 17, 2021
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JuliusCaesarArgh, tracking says it’s just leaving New Jersey today… so arrival is more like Thursday (or Friday)
Aug 17, 2021
X.D.R
8
Aug 17, 2021
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EvshrugAre you receiving a early release or are units starting to ship out already?
Aug 17, 2021
Daniel_Lagoe
23
Aug 17, 2021
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EvshrugYou got the new final mod version? Please do a comparison from HD 800, HD 8xx (original), and this one! :D Excited to see the review and images. Please message me with link to it.
Aug 17, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 17, 2021
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X.D.RIt’s a production, retail unit. Drop agreed to lend me one for 5 days to test out and update the thoughts I published from the pre-production tuning. @Daniel_Lagoe It will be the final production/retail version. Since Drop said it was ok, I’ll be photographing the daylights out of it, possibly uploading a YouTube video as well. I was only able to borrow the “original” pre-production unit for a few days before sending it along to the next person, but I wrote an (imo) focused analysis/first impressions post here: https://drop.com/talk/82618/hd-8-xx-first-impressions-from-an-hd-800-owner?referer=Z2JXCA Once the final, retail tuning HD 8xx arrives (probably Thursday), I’ll be able to compare it to an original HD 800, HD 820, and if people are curious maybe I can make comments vs the HD 650 (= HD 6XX). It’s a LOT to cover though… so don’t expect an amazingly polished video on Day 1 😅 If it does arrive on Thursday though, I’ll try to stream some gameplay off my PS5 around 8pm Eastern Standard Time USA (GMT -5) on my YouTube channel @Evshrug, basically testing it live, AMA style :)
Aug 17, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 20, 2021
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EvshrugUnboxing uploaded on my YouTube channel, STREAMING Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice right now… ask me anything during the stream! https://youtu.be/vBwGx_fD-0E
Aug 20, 2021
thanhlechemist
1
Aug 20, 2021
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Evshrughow were the headphones?
(Edited)
Aug 20, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 21, 2021
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thanhlechemistHey! I tried to think about the sounds while playing Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice last night on stream. It’s a cool game with some binaural dummy head mic recordings for “the voices in your head,” and the opening has a fairly hands free section to concentrate on audio. I had some notes, but before I say anything I want to do some music listening tonight before bed, and then Sunday/Monday I’ll switch back and forth between the retail HD 8xx and my HD 800, maybe with the HD 650 too since so many people here have the HD 6XX (HD 6XX = HD 650 sonically).
Aug 21, 2021
thanhlechemist
1
Aug 21, 2021
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EvshrugPlease keep me updated!
Aug 21, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 22, 2021
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thanhlechemistPosted a bunch of comments on my Discord, will organize and work things out to make sense when I post here! So far, it seems like a more “well rounded” tuning, the mid & bass lift is modest but more noticeable.
Aug 22, 2021
Musicseeker
57
Aug 23, 2021
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WillThanks for the explanation Will . However, I have to admit, I am little confused and puzzled by the significant drop between 1 - 3 kHz. Is this by designs and why ? I thought that the purpose of retuning the HD800s is to correct previous issues ( treble peak, lack of sub-base) etc. To be even more perfect, I thought they should try to correct the previous dip of HD800s at 1 - 3 kHz as well, but here they made it worse . Is there a good explanation for this?. Lots of people in the community is asking this question. Can Jermo from Sennheiser answer this question, or any one ? Thanks
(Edited)
Aug 23, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 24, 2021
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MusicseekerJermo said it was necessary to achieve the warmer overall sound Drop and the community here were asking for. I’ll tell you right now, last night I decided to try out some of the “top 50 pop” I don’t usually listen to (just to get an idea of what people might listen to outside my scope), and I compared a Doja Cat song (Need to Know) back to back with my HD 800. I think it’s fair to say her voice hit that frequency, and what struck me was that the HD 800 sounded more metallic and mildly irritating compared to the more organic and smooth sounding HD 8XX. She didn’t sound more distant… just more solid. That was a moment that will stick with me. The HD 8XX is not a bass cannon, but I do think it shifted to being a better all-rounder without giving up detail or soundstage.
Aug 24, 2021
Musicseeker
57
Aug 24, 2021
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EvshrugThank you Evshrug. Your input and comparison is credible and well taken. I will definitely wait next couple of weeks before taking any decision. Appreciate it… Laith
Aug 24, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 24, 2021
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MusicseekerThank you! I’m not perfect, but I’m doing my best. Feel free to throw me a song you’d like me to test, so far I’ve been trying to test out a wide swathe of genres and music styles: https://tidal.com/playlist/53372ca1-2047-4d94-a839-6a9a97a56cff (I’ll be adding more tracks to this, and syncing it up with a playlist in Spotify and Apple Music, the latter which is where I’ve been testing the HD 8XX) I also had a request to test the sound after wearing glasses with thicker stems… I’ll get more into this in the full write up, but the only effect was pretty much that the drivers sounded a bit further away (it is a VERY open headphone after all), and my glasses pressed a bit harder to my head 😅
(Edited)
Aug 24, 2021
Username_is_already_taken
43
Aug 24, 2021
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EvshrugIt makes sense that it sounds smoother now because 1-3k has been dialled down by ~2.5-3.5dB relative to the 800S if normalised at 1k (it's me again lol). Then again I don't know what the 800's FR would look when overlaid with the others 🤷🏻‍♂️
Aug 24, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 24, 2021
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Aug 24, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Aug 29, 2021
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WillVideo Preview of the retail HD 8XX is up! I’ll be writing a more organized essay here on Drop, but I’ve got to mail this demo unit along. https://youtu.be/Vrj9iq9EP9c
Aug 29, 2021
Daniel_Lagoe
23
Aug 31, 2021
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WillIf you don't mind can you please post EQ, Dist, and CSD before and after getting the EQ closer to the Harman target EQ curve? I think that would put a lot of ease on everyones minds if we objectively knew that the headphone performs well post EQ since the current tuning is scaring a lot of people. Honestly, I think proving something like that would be worthy of even inluding in the product description and as main images on the product page. Thanks!
Aug 31, 2021
Frogmeat
562
Sep 1, 2021
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WillSo, are you guys still on track to start shipping soon?
Sep 1, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Sep 1, 2021
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JuliusCaesarDid you see my video? I had your question especially in mind. It would help my channel and me personally if you would watch the video and leave a comment for the algorithms, since I’m still a small-fry in the YouTube world: https://youtu.be/Vrj9iq9EP9c I’m calling it a “preview” because I’m trying to describe the headphone, but essentially it is my review. To help you and your tinnitus out, here’s what I think with regards to your question specifically: it’s still fairly bright, and yet it is an easier listen for two reasons. One, there is a small reduction in upper mids, where high vocals and high instrument notes live, which makes these pitches less shouty and to my ears just a smidge more organic and natural while taking the edge off. There is still great extension into the highs and super highs beyond that, but the reduction in resonance around 5kHz – 6kHz is appreciable as harmonic resonances in “ess” and “th” sounds (sibilants) often show up here, so this sensitive frequency doesn’t stick around past it’s welcome. While those two points make for an easier listen for ME, to the point where I preferred that aspect of the HD 8XX over my HD 800 and I think it will be easier for me and others to enjoy the headphones for a bit longer periods, it is true that the highs and super highs in general still have plenty of energy which may aggravate people with tinnitus or sensitive hearing. My personal physiology has smaller diameter ear canals (and I use smaller IEM tips, and I can’t actually wear Audeze’s iSine in-ears with any size tip because the diameter of their bore is just too big), so my ear canal has its own resonance in the highs and I like headphones with less highs than some other brands I won’t mention which have left my ears ringing. I don’t find the HD 600 or HD 560S to be too bright. The HD 8XX didn’t leave my ears ringing, but the rest of the treble response went a long way towards great perception of directional imaging and distance/depth soundstage cues, so it wasn’t giving up on what I always felt was one of the unique appeals of the HD 800 series. To show another viewpoint though, I have another friend who has larger ear canals (quite likes the iSines) and in general seeks more treble sensitivity than me (the HD 6XX/ 650 and Momentum True Wireless are generally too dark for his tastes). He heard the HD 8XX retail too, and he preferred the HD 800S or HD 800. You didn’t ask about bass, but since I already touched on the upper mids and treble, why not? I also am friends with Mad Lust Envy. He hasn’t heard this final retail tuning (yet?), but you can read his impressions of a pre-production tuned HD 8xx here on Drop. You should read it in his own words, he put a LOT of effort into it. For me, I purposefully put a lot of modern, bassy songs into my HD 8xx playlist because I find the retail version has great impact and decent extension, though the bass decay is fast and 2nd and 3rd order harmonic presence on bass notes isn’t as strong as on other headphones (it’s a tight and dry bass, IMO). Though the bass quantity was raised a bit compared to the preproduction/HD 800S levels, which I appreciated and I think the final retail tuning would be more to Mad’s liking, I still wonder if he might still feel the retail HD 8xx lacks the kind of wet bass that gives him emotional immersion. Hopefully this helps some people figure out where they would align. No headphone is all things for all people. The HD 8XX suits me, very well.
Sep 1, 2021
JuliusCaesar
9
Sep 1, 2021
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EvshrugI saw your video and it was great! Thanks for keeping me in mind. I had a feeling the HD 8xx would still be bright even a little toned down but that’s the nature of this beast of a headphone. From what I’ve read from countless forums, people say a tube amp is needed to tame that brightness and is a perfect match for the HD 800 all around. One concern of mines is some who got this headphone to test say the measurements are not the same to the new tuning. It seems all over the place so I’m still waiting for more feedback from other testers, reviews. I’m looking at 2 tube amps, the Feliks Audio Echo Mark II or the Schiit Lyr 3 to pair it with the 8xx. I lean more to the Echo Mark 2 but you can’t put 6SN7 tubes on it but on the Lyr 3 you can just one though. My budget is just under a grand for a tube amp.
Sep 1, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Sep 5, 2021
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JuliusCaesarAw, I had something juicy and long typed up for you, but I stepped away for too long and the text entry window got cleared :( Basically, there are a ton of great tube amps out there. I included a few recommendations I was familiar/saw trusted reviews for: DNA Stratus, Monoprice + Cavalli Platinum, Garage 1217’s tube amps… I even got to hear a very nice but hard to get tube amp from Glenn Audio, my audiophile friend who lives in my city owns one and loooooves it. You’ve got to keep in mind though, the sound varies greatly depending on what tube you use… typically the best ones are from the late 70’s, but it’s not guaranteed you’ll get ones that are free from issues like microphonics or especially sensitive to EMI “squeals” every time your phone gets a text. It’s even harder to get matched sets, as often one tube will sound different from the next even in the same brand. They do sometimes do magical things (2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion) with soundstage that can be very pleasant, and it’s true that some of the best amps in the world use tubes. However, you don’t NEED tubes. That’s one of the reasons I like all the Cavalli amps I’ve tried, the discussion forums are full of SS amps that work well with an HD 800 or 800S, and of course Sennheiser’s own HDV 820 is a great match (this is what I currently use). Also, with the HD 8XX’s smoother, less prominent upper mids, I think many people will find more broad amp synergy than before. I wish I had a better idea of what sounds affect your tinnitus, or better yet if I could tell you how to demo it. I honestly enjoyed female vocals and harmonica on the HD 8xx more than on the legendary HD 650, which was a surprise to me, but the HD 650 frequency graphs actually show that their upper mids are still pretty present and their treble cut is at higher frequencies… like cymbals kinds of frequencies. I wish I could hear more amps and all the gear I wanted at whim, but like most people I don’t have that kind of access. We used to have a store that stocked lots of high-end headphone gear in Pittsburgh, and it was fantastic, but I would never have discovered it if my friend (with the Glenn amp) hadn’t told me about it (it is on his side of the city… still in business, but they stopped carrying headphones). I really hope CanJam SoCal happens (less than 3 weeks away!), because that’s my next best bet. I feel like I’ve seen Felix amps at CanJams in the past… if I get a chance to listen, I’ll drop you a note (and of course I’ll try to VLOG the show as much as possible!).
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Sep 5, 2021
edahl
86
Sep 7, 2021
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WillI'm sorry but I don't understand how Sennheiser didn't at any point put their foot down on this tuning.
Sep 7, 2021
Dymond
23
Sep 8, 2021
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WillAny updates? Still shipping in about a week?
Sep 8, 2021
SilentReaper
35
Sep 9, 2021
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WillI preorder, however with each update more I'm scared about how this product will turn out. (I really don't want to return it, I already bought some HD800 balanced cables) I would MUCH rather have the headphones be delayed by 3 or even 6 months rather than receive a bad product. In the famous words of Shigeru Miyamoto “A delayed game is eventually good. A bad game is bad forever.”
Sep 9, 2021
Designr
8
Sep 9, 2021
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SilentReaperThe pre-order has now dropped below 1000. Sad to see.
Sep 9, 2021
Musicseeker
57
Sep 9, 2021
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SilentReaperI agree. I have great trust in Drop and Sennheiser that they will deliver on their promise of a good product! Patience is gold.
Sep 9, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 9, 2021
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WillI agree with the above commenters…you need to delay and fix. You also need to address the criticisms with the community now, not later. I’m already at a point where I now realize I can’t trust Zeos…and I’m thinking I can’t trust Drop either. If you ship this out to me with this tuning I will likely return them. If I return them it will be the last time I shop with you. I doubt that you care about my purchases…but a $1k headphone needs to be impressive. No one is impressed except the shills.
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Sep 9, 2021
Daniel_Lagoe
23
Sep 10, 2021
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SenseI wouldn't go as far as to write off these headphones entirely based off the bad reviews. Same as I wouldn't assume they're amazing from good reviews, BUT I DO AGREE someone should be RESPONDING to all of the concerned people. I'm skeptical of the good reviews, but also of the bad. Seems like a lot of people didn't really say much one way or another after the good reviews, but a bad review showed up and everyone lost their shit. The headphone might actually sound amazing. A drop from 1k to 3.1k is close to a prefered frequency response I used in my car to emphasize vocals by lowering other sections. To me emphasis on 200-320 for the fundementals, 490-600 for the body, 800-1000 for the lyrical clarity, a boost with low Q around 4200 for the upper end clarity, and a dip everywhere there is sibilance sounds great for vocals. Lowering the other sections to me opens up vocals a lot. The thing that scares me a little is how soon the dip starts, my dip starts around 1khz with a slight boost right at 1k, BUT I do NOT mind EQing, especially +3-3.5 db Q maybe 2 or 3 around 960-1050, that's no problem. Then of course a huge boost in the bass region assuming it can handle that, I would do this boost regardless if HD800S or HD8XX. But regardless of how they might sound, people are worried and I think that deserves some sort of response directly responding to people concerns. Another thing that would help as I mentioned is proving the headphone can perform well in regard to distortion and no new ringing showing up after an EQ closer to Harman Curve.
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Sep 10, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 10, 2021
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Daniel_LagoeOh I agree reviews are not as good as hearing them. There is more than one negative review…and DMS is clearly gearing up to drop a negative review. Badseed also did his best “it sounds weird, the sound stage isn’t the same, it takes away the magic of the 800s, but I don’t want drop to stop sending me stuff to review so I’ll say that I’ll maybe buy it.” Of all the reviews I trust DMS the most. He’s a fair guy. All that’s said…I just contacted Drop customer support and the guy either didn’t know what he was talking about or anyone who wants to return this headphone is going to have an issue. @Will i know you’re not going to respond…but this needs to be sorted.
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Sep 10, 2021
Musicseeker
57
Sep 10, 2021
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SenseOh this is not good at all.
Sep 10, 2021
kayaka
62
Sep 10, 2021
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Daniel_LagoeReviewers, particularly ones less established, have nothing to gain from publishing a negative review (Crin said it himself). The nature of this business is that reviews of manufacturer-supplied gear naturally lean towards the positive end of interpretation. Even end consumers are affected by positive bias since most of us would rather avoid facing the fact that we dropped money on something we don't actually like. Put it this way: yes, there is certainly a possibility - perhaps even a good chance - that these headphones are EQable to something resembling a reasonable tonality, without significant distortion. But the fact of the matter is, we're all buying these headphones "sight unseen, hearing unheard." What matters most, when we're about to shell out $1k on something unproven, is trust. Trust that the company will stand by their word and uphold their claims. Trust that they'll take good care of you as a customer. What have we seen from DROP here, so far?
  • They publish specs on a pre-order product, and make significant modifications later without anyone having been in the loop except a few select shills / friendlies.
  • They claim that their latest revision "resolved all issues" and is the "logical conclusion to the HD800 series" - at best inflated marketing hyperbole, arguably an insult to HD800/S lovers around the world.
  • The entire Drop team, must less their CPO Will, has responded to absolutely none of the community's concerns and requests. Radio silence.
I'm sure there are a lot going on behind the scenes, and tough decisions had to be made. But Drop's lack of transparency and support for the community for this project - the community that in no small part enabled the company to grow in the first place - has been disappointing to say the least. At this point, I don't really care whether the 8XX is worth the price or not. As an audiophile, the quest for the best sound and best gear is never-ending, and audio technology is advancing every year with new, better products coming out continuously. What we are buying, for the most part, is peace of mind. What has Drop done so far to stand behind their product and earn our trust?
Sep 10, 2021
Skylordquasar
118
Sep 10, 2021
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SenseThat is almost certainly a mistake. The overview clearly says that you can return them with no questions asked and Will said that you could return them if you don't like the sound back in February: "This is a pre-order, so you can cancel any time between now and shipping, and this product qualifies for Drop Studio 30 day satisfaction returns, so if you don’t like the sound in November, you can send it back for a full refund." I doubt Drop wants to get sued so there is basically no way you wont be able to return them.
Sep 10, 2021
SilentReaper
35
Sep 10, 2021
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SkylordquasarThere is one huge factor here. Shipping to countries outside of U.S require import taxes. You won't get that money back if you send them back. It's a huge gamble with best case scenario losing ~200$ if you don't like them. In my case as a Canadian, the risk is simply too big to take. I'd rather spend 200$ more and have a peace of mind buying HD800s for a product I KNOW will be good.
Sep 10, 2021
Skylordquasar
118
Sep 10, 2021
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SilentReaperSeams reasonable to me. I was just pointing out that they will accept returns. If the taxes are prohibitive, that changes the situation. Also, the current iteration of the 8XX is apparently an 800s with very fancy tape in it.
Sep 10, 2021
Evshrug
3772
Community
Sep 10, 2021
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kayaka“Reviewers, particularly ones less established, have nothing to gain from publishing a negative review (Crin said it himself).” Oh, is that what he said? I mean, I can think of a few motivations. One, extreme reviews tend to get more clicks and spawn more talk, and that goes for both hype and cancel-culture. Two, a reviewer may have long-term plans to be consistent in what qualities they do or don’t like in the long run, and help their followers get a sense for their tastes. Three, a reviewer may legitimately be trying to do his/her audience a solid if he/she thinks they know their audience won’t like something. Given that I am open about how I consult for Sennheiser on Head-Fi, you might expect I would be overwhelmingly positive about the HD 8XX. But I know that no product can be “all things to all people.” I know that when I say “people looking for this trait, they will find it here and like it” or “People seeking that trait might not find it or enough of it here, and may not like or be on the fence about this product,” I am not being exciting. I doubt I was able to hide my enthusiasm for the retail tuned HD 8XX, which was certainly higher than I was about the earlier prototype I wrote about where I was happy staying with what I had, but I tried hard to think beyond myself and identify who and what kind of tastes would be happier if they moved along. Fact of the matter is, Sennheiser responded to the lukewarm reception of the prototype, and now people have another option… but if the prototype tuning suited them better, then the HD 800S is still basically that option. I think that’s fair. It’s not as exciting as saying something is the new fastest car or a disappointing videogame that bombs, but being too positive or too negative can be toxic. Fact of the matter is, there will be people who are satisfied with the HD 8xx, and those who didn’t have their expectations met. The HD 8XX is the warmer, more weighty option to the HD 800S signature, similar to how the HD 650/6XX is the more relaxed option to the HD 600’s more reference sound. Based on the comments from people that wanted a warmer HD 800 or found the HD 800S still a little too thin, or the people who said the HD 800’s highs were too aggressive, I think most people will find the retail HD 8xx tuning more musical and well-rounded for more music genres. A smaller population, meanwhile, the people who reject it will be people who really like heavy bass (or listen to a lot of songs with near 20 Hz notes… the HD 8XX is better in this regard than the HD 800S, but it’s still not a sub bass monster by frequency response sensitivity, also some people just enjoy slower decay artifacts in their bass), or just really liked the HD 800 or HD 800S upper mids. A shill is defined as an accomplice of a swindler, who acts as an enthusiastic customer in the crowd. Just because someone likes something (or has a different experience than your favorite reviewer) doesn’t make them a shill… same for a repulser, they’re not necessarily trying to do their own confidence game.
Sep 10, 2021
Daniel_Lagoe
23
Sep 10, 2021
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EvshrugOne HUGE thing for me is that the most recent reviews from crin and someone else i can't remember their name on youtube said the Soundstage and imaging is not as good. This is a GIANT deal for me as that is 100% why I want these headphones. Well that and the fact 6k was fixed. If I don't like the EQ I can fix that. If the imaging or Soundstage is bad that's a lot harder to fix. To you, honestly, is the imagine different? How so? And is the Soundstage different? And how so?
Sep 10, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 10, 2021
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SkylordquasarMixed messaging…one guy who works for them says one thing, the customer service guy says another. The website’s return policy says another and is variable depending on the product. Sorry if I have a bad feeling that a return will be difficult. Canceling doesn’t seem difficult except that if you used your drop cash they basically have locked you into spending some sort of money with them. Drop use to be a a community driven place…now it’s a business with reward programs designed to fuel continued purchases with poor return policies. I asked if I could return the amp I bought with the drop cash and refund the 8XX purchase and was told there is no return window for the amp at all.
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Sep 10, 2021
Skylordquasar
118
Sep 10, 2021
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SenseThere is very little room for interpretation in that quote from Will. He clearly states that you can return them for a full refund if you don't like the sound. Will is not just "one guy that works for them," he is the chief product officer. I'm pretty sure that he is higher up than whatever CS rep you are talking to so unless they changed that policy without telling anyone, this will be fine. That would also be illegal. I assume that the mixed messaging on the listing itself is because they use the same standard text on all drops of this type and didn't remember to tailor that text to this drop. That is a mistake I have seen them make and correct in the past.
Sep 10, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 10, 2021
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SkylordquasarThey clearly have control over their website. They can change the text or create a new warranty component with the new warranty promise that Will made. It would take an hour to get that up on the site. If I want to return something I have to deal with customer service and they clearly haven’t been briefed on Will’s promise that is not documented on the website in any official manner in their return policy documentation. Sorry…I still think returning these cans is going to be a headache no matter what. Seems like Drop sucks intentionally at communicating as well as externally.
Sep 10, 2021
Skylordquasar
118
Sep 10, 2021
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SenseExcept they have already corrected other listings on their website in the past. Customer service doesn't need to be briefed 3 months before the headphone ship date (I don't think they will be shipping in a week but I could be wrong). I guess we will see how difficult it is, but I doubt they will go all the way to the ship date without clarifying, and if they do clarify and the answer is no, they will loose a huge number of orders immediately. Worst case scenario, you can definitely return them within 30 days if you don't open them, so there will be time to confirm the return policy based on reports at that point.
Sep 10, 2021
kayaka
62
Sep 10, 2021
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EvshrugYou completely missed my point. The current situation is 99% due to how Drop made unilateral changes to a pre-order product without informing anyone, their complete lack of heed to the community's concerns, their hyperbolic claims, and their lack of transparency and communication.
Sep 10, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 10, 2021
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SkylordquasarSorry bub…you’re wrong. Customer service should 100% be aware of return policies for any product on their site. It’s literally their job. Again…I tried to clarify the situation with CS and I get the same response. if they have corrected return policies on listings in the past…why aren’t they doing it now? That makes no sense. This is not the first time a Drop product guy has said the return policy on a product is different than the standard site’s policy and people have had issues with CS getting them to honor anything other than what it says under the site’s return policy. There is a long storied history of Drop having crappy return policies…it’s part of their operational cost cutting.
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Sep 10, 2021
Skylordquasar
118
Sep 11, 2021
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SenseThat confirms that the returns department is not on board with what Will was saying which we already knew. No, the returns department does not need to be aware of the return policy for a product that is currently impossible to return. I would bet anything that the rep you are talking to is giving you the blanket return policy for all headphones. I can't speak for everyone, but I haven't had any problems whatsoever with drop support so I'm going to need more to go on as far as that is concerned than general statements. Everything else you have said has been speculation and you seem dead set on assuming the worst. I fail to see what your issue is with waiting for confirmation. Are you saying that you think we should cancel our orders? You also seem to be doing more attacking of drop's character then presenting arguments. Every one of you comments has some meta analysis about how drop is shady or not community focused anymore or how Badseed made his review nicer because he is afraid of retaliation and Zeos can't be trusted. All of this is without evidence. I'm starting to think that you are just mad.
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Sep 11, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 11, 2021
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SkylordquasarOn the other side…you seem content to make excuses for everything I’ve said. My goal is to get someone, anyone, to say something, anything. Someone has to make some noise…that’s how things get done. I don’t care what your return experience is…Drop is know one the audio industry for the worst return policy. Some sites give you a year to use the headphone and return it if you don’t like it (I mean that’s crazy right? But so pro consumer). Drop doesn’t allow returns on most equipment and when they do it needs to be defective. Sorry…but you can make excuses all you want…their customers service has no idea about “ Will’s return policy” and that is a fact…any attempt to explain that away doesn’t change that fact. I think they should know…you don’t think they should know. Agree to disagree. At some point someone from drop is going to have to say something and at the least alert their customer service team as to what the return policy is going to be so we can be sure we’ll be taken care of if we want to return it. Making noise here + the 12 people that canceled yesterday…well…they have to eventually say something.
Sep 11, 2021
Skylordquasar
118
Sep 11, 2021
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SenseWe aren't talking about whether their return policy is one of the worst in the industry, we are talking about whether they will honor that return policy. I don't want to be that guy, but I'm going to need some form of evidence that they won't. Not you talking to a rep about a headphone that hasn't shipped yet, but evidence that honoring their return policy is actually a widespread issue at the company. What you call making excuses, I call the benefit of the doubt. You seem to want to assume the absolute worst in every situation. Your stance is that all reviewers are either not trustworthy or they secretly agree with you but can't say anything about it because they are worried drop will retaliate. You say I'm making excuses but Will and another rep literally flat out stated what the return policy was going to be for these headphones. You have no leg to stand on. You are either arguing that they lied or that they changed it without telling anyone and you don't have anywhere near enough evidence for either. I'm fine with making noise when noise makes sense, but you can't just make whatever crazy arguments you want to get as many people to cancel as possible. Yes, they almost certainly botched the tuning, but there is plenty of time for them to fix it and there is no real reason to assume that you won't be able to return the headphones if they don't fix it. If they announced, that they were going to ship the headphones tomorrow without also confirming what the return policy is going to be, that would be cause for concern, but we are not there yet.
Sep 11, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 11, 2021
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SkylordquasarI can’t scour the Internet for examples…I don’t have that type of time…but I’ve ordered from them enough and been a round these discussion threads enough to know returning things is an issue with them. Returns and warranty are the main topic of complaint at the BBB…as a matter of fact Drop is rated “F” from the Better Business Bureau https://www.bbb.org/us/ca/san-francisco/profile/internet-service/drop-1116-537294 keep your faith in the company…I have no faith when they bait and switch a pre-order and then they refuse to engage with the community that made them when they were Massdrop. 14 cancels now. My order hinges on DMS and his review or some sort of response from Will related to if they are going to address the mid scoop or not. As for you @Skylordquasar like I said…agree to disagree. I don’t really care to continue this arguing. We aren’t going to agree…so let’s just leave it. I hope you like your headphone if you end up keeping it.
Sep 11, 2021
Skylordquasar
118
Sep 12, 2021
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SenseActually, that part of your argument makes more sense with that evidence. As for DMS' review, it seems like these basically turn into an 800s if you remove the tape. I know drop said the driver material is different, but DMS said he was able to very nearly reproduce the 8XX tuning with his own tape and an 800s so the difference is likely minimal. Obviously he doesn't like the tuning it ships with though.
Sep 12, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 12, 2021
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SkylordquasarI’m wondering if he’ll find something he likes about them. I think it’s possible…he’s surprised me before. The Hemp review most recently.
Sep 12, 2021
Kelocyde
2
Sep 12, 2021
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SenseThank you for the empirical evidence and eye-opening realization regarding (M)assDrop and their return policies.
Sep 12, 2021
Musicseeker
57
Sep 12, 2021
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SenseDMS just posted a review and as expected .. sad one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtOcC6ov-PU&t=41s
Sep 12, 2021
Skylordquasar
118
Sep 12, 2021
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MusicseekerOh well. If Drop had any good news to share, they probably would have by now, so I guess that's that.
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Sep 12, 2021
Daniel_Lagoe
23
Sep 12, 2021
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MusicseekerI dont think its that sad. He confirmed the Soundstage and imaging are still there and with EQ it can be fixed. I'm just happy to get a normally 1400 headphone for 1100 and 200 to spend on drop. Also, I think again just from the frequency response curves it doesn't look hard to EQ. Add some at 980, 2100, and the bass boost any hd8 series could use and you are good to go. Im pretty comfortable with heavy EQ after fixing my car, monitor speakers, and other headphones with EQ. You think this is bad, try to EQ a car. :o
Sep 12, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 13, 2021
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MusicseekerWell…that’s the fair and balanced review I was looking for. He genuinely sounded and looked disappointed. If they revert to the original tuning or if they took up DMS on his offer to help them fix that 6k bump without destroying the mids…I would still want these. I feel like no matter what I do I lose. I bought an amp with the $200 drop points (that they won’t let me return) and I already purchased a balance cable for $160. It’s really horrible that they changed the tuning after people pre-ordered. If I cancel I’m out $360…I can’t be the only one in this boat. Would love to know how I get made whole. We have 38 total cancellations in three days. I wonder when someone from Drop is going to say something. @Will if you have a plan to adjust tuning…you really should speak to it now.
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Sep 13, 2021
Musicseeker
57
Sep 13, 2021
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SenseI am in the same boat my friend. Bought Dac/Amp { drop } and balanced cable{ not from drop}. Too bad can't return. To be frank, I knew that I would not be able to return. I just did not expect that tuning would be changed unilaterally just like that. It came from no where and it took me by surprise just like many of us. I cancelled the order. Keeping the order will make the loss just bigger. Anyhow, it is not the end of the world. Take care..
Sep 13, 2021
GCE1701D
46
Sep 13, 2021
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WillSitting here and watching the last month I am left wondering if to some extent there's some possible subconscious bandwagoning or mob mentality as this ebbs and flows. What I mean by this, is, as originally stated, and then after the tuning tweak, (and as has always been commented when talking about the HD800 line) the HD800/s can for many be too bright or fatiguing verging on either too treble heavy, or possibly cold sounding. So Drop and Senn go and try to warm them up. And now the response is that they don't sound enough exactly like the 800s and are too warm. But, that's kind of what the stated goal was anyway from how I've seen this develop, that these weren't supposed to be exactly the 800 or 800s, and hopefully add more bass and keep them from being as fatiguing or perceived by some as leaning to cold. Most of these reviews basically boil down to "It doesn't sound like the 800/s" but, isn't that the point? (now I know we'll all over react but try to see the 10 feet back devils advocate view question here.) If they really end up sounding crazy warm or far too different then sure some argument to be had here. but they never said they were selling a hd800, they were selling an HD8XX, with new radiator in the driver, etc... Now I'm not saying it should sound totally unlike the HD800/s at all even remotely, that would be silly. But it strikes me as ironic that first the reviewers say it doesn't sound different enough, then they say it sounds too different, but these aren't supposed to be exact HD800/s' right? that would be the already available models we can all go buy instead. And as for EQ curves and 'recorded' playback. I'm sorry but, all audio sounds different even if you try your best to approximate it on something else. there's material acoustics and reverberations build variables, etc... that would make it impossible for you to truly 'hear the tuning' or demo the sound of a headphone that isn't being listened on an existing HD800 (and even then to an extent) They could be lemons? sure, all the hyperbole could be correct. Or not. but I think it's always been a catch 22 here. not enough change and it'd be vollyed they were too much like a stock HD800s, too much change and you'll have the crowd that really just wanted a cheaper HD800s upset.
Sep 13, 2021
Estasenko
40
Sep 13, 2021
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GCE1701DI don't think people are very concerned that they "don't sound the same". Yes.. there were some people who wanted a heavier bass & less treble peaky HD800S (which is the most common "minor" EQ today) but let's be honest.. "most" people probably just wanted a cheaper stock HD800S similar to the HD6XX drop. The bigger issue that people are concerned with is that there is a mid-range dip that ruins tonality of the headphone. DMS has stated the dip is so bad it would need at least a +11db to correct in the 2khz range. Additionally, they are being reviewed as "muddy and bloated" sounding (without EQ) which is not something ANYONE buys the HD800S for.. Period. If you get an HD800S that sounds muddy & bloated, you did yourself wrong. At the end of the day, this headphone can sound okay if you are willing to apply heavy EQ to it. As it turns out.. not everyone is okay with heavy EQ on a headphone being mandatory as we can see by the cancelled pre-orders which still seem to be coming in as people find out what's going on here.. It's just one of those things.. Yes the LCD-X is a great example that can be applied here as well.. and yes.. not everyone is willing to own one of those either because it requires EQ to sound "right". At the end of the day, some people will probably still enjoy the as-is tuned HD8XX because our ears are just that different (yes..) while others will be Ok EQ'ing the heck out of them to get them to sound "right". Drop may just not be able to pre-sell 3k units like they originally intended so it can be viewed as a "failure" from that standpoint.. but hey.. another headphone on the market with a different "flavor" for those who enjoy it. Such is life I guess.
Sep 13, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 13, 2021
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GCE1701DIt’s not about a less bright warmer headphone. Over 990 people pre-ordered the original tuning. The current thing has a -11db scoop that apparently makes the timbre sound completely wrong. Your music won’t sound correct…it will be missing a chuck of information in the mids. Also…apparently the soundstage and imagining is screwed up and the vocals seem to echo like the singer was in a long hallway. None of these issues should exist in a $1,100 headphone. It was compared to the cheapest line of Grado headphones. It’s a bait and switch…and it was an attempt to sell more…and all it did was cause almost 50 cancellations in a single weekend. That should be eye opening.
Sep 13, 2021
Paullieb213
145
Sep 13, 2021
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GCE1701DThere is a difference between sounding different and sounding inferior.
Sep 13, 2021
AlexPk
7197
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Sep 13, 2021
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SenseI'm not sure who all needs to be tagged, but this is definitely incorrect and we've talked with the CS team about it. To be clear, what Will and the greater return policy states is correct. https://helpdesk.drop.com/hc/en-us/articles/360019107874-Drop-s-return-replacement-policy 30 days, like new, no questions.
Sep 13, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 13, 2021
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AlexPkHey Alex! Thank you for confirming and for discussing with CS :) Any chance we can get someone from drop to confirm that the tuning from last month on these headphones is final? I think some of us are crossing our fingers for a last minute course correction. I think many here are somewhat concerned about the final tuning…especially because we pre-ordered a different tuning and no one was asking for major changes like what we ended up with. I know I’m not the only one who has already spent my drop credit and purchased a balanced cable anticipating a specific tuning that we were confident we wanted…only to have the headphone suddenly go in a wildly different direction.
(Edited)
Sep 13, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 13, 2021
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AlexPkYou’re customer service just canceled my order without my expressed consent. I never asked to cancel…I asked what the return policy was. I said I might cancel…but I was trying to see my options related to the drop points already spent. I’m out $360 here if I cancel (cable + Paying back drop points)…I was trying to figure out what I’m going to do. I was waiting to see if you guys change the headphone tuning.
(Edited)
Sep 13, 2021
AlexPk
7197
Community
Sep 13, 2021
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SenseI'm on it.
Sep 13, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 13, 2021
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AlexPkThank you 😊
Sep 13, 2021
Musicseeker
57
Sep 13, 2021
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SenseHi Sense. I e-mailed Drop 3 weeks ago or so and they confirmed that this is their final tuning. just FYI.
Sep 13, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 13, 2021
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MusicseekerThanks for the heads up :( I had hoped that maybe they would reconsider after this past weekend and the slew of cancellations. I really would like @Will or @AlexPk to confirm that before I completely give up on this purchase.
(Edited)
Sep 13, 2021
AlexPk
7197
Community
Sep 13, 2021
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SenseI unfortunately am so far out of my depth on technical details. My level of knowledge is at "magnets, how do they work", but I'll try to ping other more useful individuals.
Sep 13, 2021
Sense
118
Sep 13, 2021
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AlexPkThank you Alex! Any info would be helpful for all of us…I know I wanted the original tuning but I’m also prepared to wait if the product team here decides to go back to the drawing board and fix the current mid recession. I’m also still waiting on some questions to CS related to that canceled order…I assume that information request is in queue.
Sep 13, 2021
AlexPk
7197
Community
Sep 13, 2021
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SenseKeep me posted on that CS ticket if you have any issues. I'll make sure it gets to whatever resolution you decide on.
Sep 13, 2021
output555
93
Sep 14, 2021
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WillIt's beyond absurd that Will or anyone from Drop is not responding to the multitude of concerned comments. It's no surprise orders have dropped well below 1000 since the tuning controversy started. Will should be responding to requests---or at least making an official statement, about the state of the current modification, PLUS when we'll actually get delivery of the 8XX. Like most others, I pre-ordered based on the original promise of the new 'phones being superior to the 800s, but I'm increasingly displeased with the total lack of response by Will and Drop. This is incredibly poor customer relations, and will sour many people against ever doing business with the company.
(Edited)
Sep 14, 2021
Pointy
15
Sep 15, 2021
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output555Not to mention Will's post still says "DROP and Sennheiser are doing everything possible to ship these in the first half of September" and that's almost over now with no updates.
Sep 15, 2021
nitepone
23
Sep 15, 2021
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WillThis is a real pain for me, but I have to cancel my pre-order. I was really excited for the HD8XX. But there are quite a few negative reviews out now. Many of them complaining about the HD8XX's tuning. And there is no response from the Drop team.
Sep 15, 2021
ciber
231
Sep 16, 2021
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PointyDrop has the updates now, basically all HD8XX orders will be shipped next week.
(Edited)
Sep 16, 2021
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