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tyllsdaughter
34
Sep 3, 2021
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https://crinacle.com/2021/09/03/drop-sennheiser-hd8xx-review-illogical-conclusion/
EDIT: Crinacle thought comparing the 8XX to its predecessors to be so important that he broke the "serious audiophile code" and did a sound demo comparing HD8XX and HD800SDR at the bottom of the page.
(Edited)
tyllsdaughter
34
Sep 3, 2021
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SchwizzelKick66It's also the only one written by someone who I trust. Crinacle is a fixture of the audio community not because he has the same taste as everyone (he doesn't, some of his takes I heavily disagree with), but because he's trustworthy, honest, and his metrics for evaluating a headphone are consistent. Even though I know we do not have the same taste, I would take Crinacle's review to heart more than any done by Zeos, Joshua Valour, really any of the YouTube content creators save for Resolve, or anyone writing a review here. Crinacle's experience and record speaks for itself.
(Edited)
GiantHeadphoneSquid
639
Sep 3, 2021
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tyllsdaughter'Drop has claimed the HD8XX to be (or at least, aims to be) the “logical conclusion of the HD800 series”, but this seems more like a spit in the face to its legacy.'
Yeah, that's... that's not good.
jesus-christ-himself
19
Sep 3, 2021
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tyllsdaughterCrinacle is like one of three reviewers worth listening to along with the headphone show guys
Musicseeker
57
Sep 4, 2021
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jesus-christ-himselfI read it. What can I say. Like I ordered Tesla and kept waiting, now changed to Hyundai ( no offense to Hyundai, they have good products too) . Wish can get the Tesla back😉
(Edited)
Sense
118
Sep 5, 2021
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tyllsdaughterDoes someone from @Drop have anything to say here? @Will perhaps? No chart I’ve seen matches the one they are using to sell these things. I ordered a cheaper version of the 800s (maybe with a little less resolution) and now it looks like they have changed it to a completely different headphone.
Musicseeker
57
Sep 5, 2021
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SenseI agree. The interesting thing is that Drop tried the same with MEZE 99. Drop tried to retune with lower bass and make it more neutral but then community feed back made drop keep the original tuning of the Meze 99 classics. I know this because I have the Meze 99 noir from drop and it is amazing. I think drop try to improve things, which is great, but sometimes, retuning may make things less desirable like in this case with HD8xx. I am hoping that Drop goes back to the drawing table with Sennheiser and keep the original hd800s tuning or tweak only slightly by bringing the treble spike just a little bit and increase the base below 100 hz by 4 0r 5 Db. and off course correct the scoop between 1 and 3 k. But i know tweaking headphone physically is a very complex thing. I myself rather have the original Hd800s tuning or even the Tuning Drop posted in February this year than the one posted in July.
Sense
118
Sep 5, 2021
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MusicseekerI agree 100%.
My wife isn’t an audiophile but I make her listen to my headphones all the time.
I had her listen to the comparison video in that review and she immediately picked out the HD8XX tuning as sounding muffled. This was a blind test where she didn’t see the image swap in the video. The next day I tried having her pick again…same results. Muffled.
Of course I appreciate that that is a simulation…but the 8XX doesn’t sound better or even natural.
PrimeDefendr
44
Sep 12, 2021
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tyllsdaughterCrinacle's review gave me every reason to take the 8xx out of my cart.
dm94aq7
0
Sep 15, 2021
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tyllsdaughterCrinacle seems like a dunderhead. I'd love to see an ASR review of these.
tyllsdaughter
34
Sep 15, 2021
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dm94aq7Are you having a laugh? The former is literally the custodian of the largest headphone measurement database and one of the most trusted reviewers in the entire hobby, and the latter is a rich guy with a god complex. Amir doesn't have any listening skills, and furthermore, is just as guilty as any of the bad YouTubers like Zeos and Josh Valour of making people spend money on underperforming products.
As someone who was *personally* fleeced by Amir's "reviews," even I cannot contain in words with any sense of brevity how wrongheaded the entirety of the ASR community is. Please just try to take what Crin said at face value and stop praying at the church of SINAD. Your ears will thank you.
dm94aq7
0
Sep 15, 2021
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tyllsdaughterI have no allegiance to any reviewers. I haven't heard of Crinacle before today. His video review is off-putting because of the dramatic phrasing and condescending tone. Focusing on a 10db "hole" is strange because that doesn't seem to match other measurements.
Daniel_Lagoe
23
Sep 15, 2021
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tyllsdaughterI don't think you can logically say Amir is wrong and Crin is right in regard to subjective taste. Lots of people I've seen commenting don't agree with Crins subjective tastes in headphones either.
Also, it's important to note IF Amir got his hands on these he would undoubtedly say they are SHIT without EQ. He typically sides with what the measurements say and his house curve is SO FAR off of what these measure.
To compare Amir to Josh and Zeos though, is INSANE. Having a "god complex" doesn't make you inherently wrong. It just makes you often times, not liked, and I would say for good reason. Amirs latest videos on Youtube are actually very informative and great for anyone to watch, he is a smart guy even if you hate his guts.
I think it's funny how emotionally invested people get for or against any reviewer or audio forum to be honest. It's a little silly? They should all be taken with a grain of salt and BOTH the objective crowd and subjective crowd alike have valid input regardless of what forum they belong to (almost like audiophile gangs haha).
I can imagine it now, "yo, where you from homie?", "SBAF dogggg", or "ASR broooo"...maybe even some "in-ear fid foo". In the end though, we are all just audio fools paying way too much for headphones and objectively stating subjective statements. xD
(Edited)
Sense
118
Sep 15, 2021
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dm94aq7It matches every measurement I’ve seen. That said…I completely disliked him and that was my first time seeing his reviews.
Doesn’t make him wrong…DMS was just more professional about his gripes. Crin was clearly excited to do a negative review. DMS was disappointed.
aw818
9
Sep 15, 2021
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Daniel_Lagoe100% agree. The audio community is a weird one to be a part of so many STONG opinions, which are just that, subjective opinions. I have read/watched tons of reviews for headphones, not just the HD8XX and it is evident you have to take everyone's personal opinion with a grain of salt and try do see how they line up with your personal tastes. That being said a combination off all of those opinions along with Drop's silence made me nervous enough to cancel my preorder.
tyllsdaughter
34
Sep 16, 2021
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Daniel_LagoeI absolutely can say that when the former has proven that he literally doesn't have critical listening skills. He said HD600 and HD650 are basically identical. He focuses, to your point, more on measurements than anything; so not only does he not have listening skills, the sound doesn't even matter. Nor does use-case. Otherwise, Topping stuff would probably *never* be recommended and his turn around time for reviews would be much slower because you actually need a decent amount of time to understand how a piece of gear performs overall.
I actually agree that Amir will probably shit on 8XX if he gets his hands on it, but broken clocks etc etc.
It's really not too far off to compare JV and Zeos to Amir; if anything I think Amir is more dangerous to the hobby as a whole, but regardless, they all claim authority in the audio space while either liking and recommending everything (Zeos), liking things that are divisive and not actually a good value for the vast majority of people (Josh) or literally not even using their ears or paying any mind to building listening skills or worthwhile impressions. Zeos and Amir use similarly vague language, Josh and Amir shill similarly underperforming gear. The difference is, Amir is rich (which unfortunately, automatically gives him authority to talk out of his ass) and *owns* his platform, so he's free to do whatever he wants with zero accountability to the larger community.
You say my investment is emotional, and yk maybe it is. I have nothing against any of these people other than the fact that they regularly recommend people bad products and have no compunctions about doing so. The wider audio-adjacent crowd doesn't know how much salt they should be taking these reviews with (the answer is a gallon) and these reviewers know this; it is off the backs of these people new to the hobby or science that they claim authority, and it's upsetting.
"we are all just audio fools paying way too much for headphones" speak for yourself, homie!!! i've yet to spend too much on a headphone... relative to what others are spending 😋
tyllsdaughter
34
Sep 16, 2021
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dm94aq7It literally matches other measurements exactly? idk what squiggles yr looking at but they're not the right ones.
Daniel_Lagoe
23
Sep 16, 2021
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tyllsdaughterYou said to Amir "the sound doesn't even matter." this isn't true at all. Look at his HD800S review, he only recommended it due to the cool soundstage effect. There are others speakers and headphones he also recommends based on listening preference, but adds in it didn't test as good as competitors, if it didn't.
Why you gotta personally attack me man...like my Topping stuff, was a good price and no issues with it. :'(
I think it's also relavent that Amir has commented against Toppings QC issues. :O
"It's really not too far off to compare JV and Zeos to Amir; if anything I think Amir is more dangerous to the hobby as a whole" I don't know why you hate him so much, sure he is a bit of a know it all, but you're comparing him to people who honestly just seems like shills. haha
Amir, from what I've seen, has been pretty good in adding in things like whether or not SINAD and distortion above a certain point is even audible. It does get to a point you are just measuring how cool it is technology got so far and he completely admits that.
Do you honestly think the level of intelligence is the same between those three reviewers or do you just ignore knowledge when quantifying quality of reviewer? I personally think it's relavent, but will concede it's not everything which is why I listen to many different reviewers and have personally taken the time to figure out my preference for frequency curve.
"they regularly recommend people bad products and have no compunctions about doing so"
I think the above quote is part of the issue I mentioned here "objectively stating subjective statements", you know what's wrong with them, on a seemingly objective level...which is that they recommend bad products, BUT how are you the judge of good vs bad products? It's surely not by objective measurements as then you'd have no argument with Amir (as the tests are also repeatable)...so are you claming, due to subjective listening, they are objectively selecting bad products? This is in regard to all three reviewers, while I don't agree with Josh and Zeos and I do think they are probably shills to some extent, I wouldn't claim they reocmmend bad products purely from listening to them if others liked them. Amir has a little more say for me as while I STILL take his listening to stuff with a grain of salt, if something measures insanely bad (unless by design for certain effect, like some tube amps), then it was probably engineered bad. Some might still like it, myself included, so I'm not opposed to still trying it out, but it still to me carries more weight then "it sounds veiled in the midrange with too sparkly top end presence that isn't enjoyable and sharp".
(Edited)
trellus
396
Sep 23, 2021
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tyllsdaughterHis videos are entertaining, he has a great library of graphs... and he's an intelligent, interesting person in the headphone community -- but his takes don't influence my purchasing choices at all. I have my own ears and enjoy finding out what I like for myself.
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