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Naidu
14
Jul 24, 2019
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A noob question;
If I already have a JDS Labs Atom + D50 setup, would the 789 be significant ugrade over it (say if I pair it with a Topping D70, or SMSL SU8). My headphones/IEMS are Oppo PM-3, HE-4XX, Sony MDR-Z7M2, Massdrop Plus, Pinnacle Px. Will I hear a major difference with my headphones on a fully balanced system compared to my current setup?
(Edited)
adeadcrab
258
Jul 24, 2019
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NaiduIn terms of soundstage and detail retrieval probably yes, the change would be greater with better headphones.
edit - I just checked out the reviews of the atom, and they proclaim the soundstage is impressive. I haven't tried so I'll have to believe them. Compare the soundstage to an OTL amp though, and I am convinced the atom would be blown out of the water. Distortion measurements are not everything.
(Edited)
JJayJJ
472
Jul 24, 2019
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NaiduYou already have one of the best setup's with respect to fidelity (transmission of the audio signal through the chain of devices). The JDS Atom is equal if not a hair better than the 789 in terms of distortion. And it is more powerful then the 789 if you're using single-ended. The only difference you will hear with balanced is a far more powerful (higher maximum output volume essentially), and eliminations of ground loops if indeed you suffer from that.
For the headphones you listed, and just in general, there is no need to get a 789 unless you're looking to run your amp and have balanced wire connected to your DAC that's in another room (the main benefit from balanced is it allows very long cable runs).
Please be weary of all the audiophile snake-oil folks talking to you using nebulous terms that have no definition in any technical specifications, (things like, auditory alacrity, spaciousness, soundstage, liquidity, intimacy, speed and other such worthless terms), these people have almost zero idea what they're talking about, and if they're ever correct, it's usually by coincidence or basing opinions on coincidence. Even if they've experienced these sorts of things, they could very well be under placebo.
If you really want to see the differences between the Atom and 789, just read these two reviews. There's nothing else really more to be said on this sort of topic.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-new-jds-labs-atom-headphone-amp.5262/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/
(Edited)
phoenixsong
1055
Jul 24, 2019
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JJayJJTrue or not, I usually avoid sticking to a single review site, for the people there usually either think along the same vein or dare not speak otherwise :)
JJayJJ
472
Jul 24, 2019
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phoenixsongSecond/Third opinions are fine. But when the question is about performance, there's no amount of "opinions" when discerning how fast something is like a car (simply drive it to it's max speed and find out), or figuring how much power an amplifier has (simply lick your finger, and use yourself as a circuit between the naked power outlet, and the amp/dac, and feel for yourself how much current it's probably drawing at max volume).
Lol, don't do that last part, I was just messing around.
What I mean't to say is, if performance is what you seek, you don't need opinions, in the same way you don't go looking for opinions on whether two temperature thermometers you might have at home can be "trusted". You don't have to listen to a single word any reviewer says, and still know what the performance is like when it gets measured objectively.
Now if you care more about how something looks, or how it makes you feel, or what metal alloy/material is used in it's construction, then that's perfectly fine to go around looking to see what people say how well the material feels when you touch it.
If you're going to seek multiple reviews, you must be comparing the same thing. If one site says "the performance is great", while the other sight says "the performance is great, and here is the proof".. Any rational person is going to value the second site more because their claims become substantiated.
That's what the site I provided does. Removes the guess work on having to rely on some random-aged impressionable person telling you how something "sounds", when you can get objective performance metrics yourself. The other sites that talk about how great a device is to operate have their value for that. The site I linked has it's extreme value for demonstrating performance without much potential for bias.
RockyMountains
478
Jul 24, 2019
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NaiduYou are unlikely to hear much different. The internet is just going gaga over a flavour of the month product (this goes in cycles on a regular basis). You will hear a much more major difference by buying another pair of headphones.
phoenixsong
1055
Jul 24, 2019
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nick_tWhat are the components in the setup you used to test them, and what are the subjective differences you have garnered from the comparison? :)
nick_t
186
Jul 24, 2019
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phoenixsongSorry, what do you mean ? What question did I asked you ?
phoenixsong
1055
Jul 24, 2019
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JJayJJAh, don't misunderstand me- I frequent that site myself to verify the measured performances of popular products. However, my point is that when people stop questioning and finding out more, they will stop learning and miss out on stuff :)
(Edited)
phoenixsong
1055
Jul 24, 2019
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nick_tYou did not ask me a question! XD I'm asking you a question based on your response to Naidu :p
nick_t
186
Jul 24, 2019
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phoenixsongI did not test anything, subjectivity is based on experience on which textured of sound you like, sound signature preference and such. Also, I am basing on a general context here. Also, how does one super expensive amp/dac is compared and why does it exists if some say cheaper ones would do such as the Toping D70 and THX 789 AAA comparing to let say Audio GD.
phoenixsong
1055
Jul 24, 2019
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nick_tI see. If this is the case, what is your basis behind giving Naidu a big "yes" in response to the second part of his/her question? I think it'll be fair for him/her to understand where you're coming from
(Edited)
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JJayJJ
472
Jul 25, 2019
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nick_tI have an RME ADI 2 DAC (it's a dac+amp). The only amp that beats the 789 that I know of is the HP4A from Benchmark, for $3,000, but just barely. The thing that the Benchmark amp has is far more circuitry for protections, it has a screen, it can function as a power amplifier pre-amp, and has even MORE power than that 789 in balanced (hard to believe, but yeah).
One thing you have to understand about "performance" at these levels. Both these amps (the Benchmark and Massdrop 789) are at the top of the food chain, as well as the $99 JDS Atom. There could be more, but until companies either pay or send their devices to be independently measured, we will never know if anything beats something like the Benchmark (highly unlikely, but always possible, and I hear JDS is making a new product for 2019, so that might be interesting, but it might not be an amp, it could be a DAC).
So with these kinds of amps, you will NEVER be able to tell the difference in your music, because the DAC's are the bottlenecks. If the DAC has more distortion than the amp, then the DAC is what you should be looking to upgrade, not the amp, the amp is more resolving, so there is no need. But Aside from the Matrix Audio Element X Dac (and maybe their other devices), and also the Okto Research Stereo Dac.. There's nothing out there that we know of that is as clean as the Benchmark and the 789.
I'm telling you. You have to make it easy on yourself. Look at the features of amps and dacs, there's no need to pinch every single last performance metric seeking to spend thousands on just a few db worth of distortion elimination. I bought the RME because of it's amazing features and great performance together. I would have never bought it if it was simply a plain old DAC. Likewise you should also not worry about performance so much, these devices we're talking about are already far more distortion free than any listening devices we use today.
Getting something like a JDS Atom, or Massdrop 789 with a Kandas Tone Board, will be more than enough for any gear you're running if all you care about is performance. You will not be hearing the difference between a 789 and a Benchmark, their performance is far above the threshold of human audibility, which is why people use measurements to engineer these devices. No one does it by listening by ear alone.
adeadcrab
258
Jul 25, 2019
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NaiduMy first external amp was in 2008, it was a Meier-Corda Arietta. It was about $300 USD. I was really dazzled with at it first with my DT880 plugged into it. Years passed, and in the meantime I upgraded my audio chain; on a whim A/B'ed the arietta with an all-in-one DAC/pre/amp and the arietta sounded worse. It was thin sounding and the soundstage had a size of maybe 60-70 degrees from in front of your nose, good amps can have over 90 degrees and the sound goes all around your head.
Way back in the day, it was considered a decent amp, but as with all things the status quo changes. I haven't tried the atom, people say it's good so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and believe them. For sure, the competition in the audio industry has increased the quality of products and delivered for users.
Now I'm curious if this XXX 789 will best the SS amp I have now. I've pre-ordered and will find out later, rather than sooner. But eventually I will find out.
Naidu
14
Jul 25, 2019
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NaiduThanks to all who replied. The thing is I was astounded by how much better my headphones sounded thru the Atom+D50 compared to my portable setup (Fiio X5iii+Topping NX5). So I was wondering if the 789+Balanced DAC can better that combo. Since the preorder will be for a month, I think I'll just mull over the decision a bit more. Maybe the itch will go away.
(I had to reply to myself, in order to reply to everyone who responded. Sorry).
(Edited)
adeadcrab
258
Jul 26, 2019
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adeadcrabWith regards to measurements, I stumbled across this today and had a good chuckle to myself -
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/tutorial-lies-damn-lies-and-usb-dac-technical-measurements.5770/
Keep in mind my current DAC, the Topping D50, was bought solely due to its impressive measurements, and I still enjoy my listening sessions with it. Measurements still matter, up until the point where they don't.
(Edited)
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