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iberger
16
Jul 24, 2019
edited for formatting of specifications info alright, I know the comparison to the stratospire 2 has been brought up and discussed ad-nauseum, but from what I can tell, the discussion has been about the standard version, not the stratospire-Li version which uses dynemma (cuben DCF) instead of sil-poly and is fully taped and waterproof. So I'm looking for other oppinions. I know the price difference is huge, but what about the other factors. Right now I'm leaning to the strato-Li not factoring in price, mostly because of the advantages of dyneema, but that makes it a less even comparison as the x-mid doesn't have a dyneema option (yet, fingers crossed) in my comparisson, the x-mid beats out the stratospire2 by a mile, and could be a fair contender to the Li, but the Li wins out for me except on price. any one else have opinions? stratospire Li price 690 weight 27.7 oz material DCF, 0.51 oz fly, 1oz floor waterproof stratospire2 price 360 weight 44oz material 30d sil-nylon needs seam seal to waterproof and material wets and sags x-mid 2 price 280 weight 38.8 oz material 20d sil-poly waterproof, no sag both tents have similar floor and total areas but the stratospire Li has more evenly sized vestibules so there is less space wasted in tiny slivers in weird areas. from the videos provided, the strato has an initially rectangular pitch, and you then pull and stake out the vestibules. yeah there are more stakes but the pitch seems only minorly more complex. only other major notes I can think of would be that the stratospire has rigid stiffeners in two diagonal corners which may slightly effect packable size. in summary, from what I can find, the major differences between the two would be weight and price. minor differences include a few additional small steps to pitch the stratospire, but better use of space, less vertical walls on the sratospire, which general means better wind resistance, but slightly less resistance to snow loading, needing two additional stakes, and different details such as the stiffeners and vent layout. it's a tough choice if you ask me as the weight and efficient use of space in the stratospire Li is a significant factor. Personaly, I would love to see x-mid option for at least a dyneema fly, maybe also the inner floor depending on what makes sense . i think that the dyneema fly would put it as a serious contender for title of best tent. I know it would drastically increase price, and that there have been strong hints of dyneema being in the works, but expressing further interest couldn't hurt. right now the x-mid is a good, simple design, that has an amazing cost to weight ratio, and makes smart use of lightweight fabrics in making the tent super beefy for increased usability. I don't mind sacrificing a couple ounces for heavier grades of ultralight/ultra-tough fabrics because I hate having to baby my gear. however, a dyneema fly option would push it over the edge, and if you ask me, would likely propel this tent even further in the lightweight camping gear space than it already impressively is.
(Edited)
ibergerClearly you've put some thought into this, and indeed the StratoSpire 2 is an excellent tent. A goal with the X-Mid 2P was to improve upon that high mark, so I'll briefly comment on that and then discuss how the SS Li stacks up. The SS2 has a hexagon base, where any hexagon contains a rectangle in the sense that if you don't stake two opposite points then you've staked a rectangle - or in other words - you can stake out the rectangle sleeping area and then stake out the two vestibules that make it a hexagon. However, a key difference is that the fly doesn't help you stake that rectangle. With the X-Mid, when you've staked one side, you can then pull the 3rd corner out and you don't have to guess the correct distance away because it's defined by the length of that side, whereas the SS2 side has a bend it in (since it is a hexagon) so you could stake a 3rd corner out at 90 degrees but you'd be estimating both the angle and distance. Then the fourth corner again has more guesswork, and only if you execute these estimates well, will you achieve a good rectangle and subsequent hexagon. Arguably the floor does sort of help here because it is rectangular and sort of limits the fly shape, but it is attached with elastics and thus any aid that it provides in defining the shape is vague (e.g. you can easily stretch it six inches too far). So I feel strongly - and reviewers agree - that the X-Mid pitch is much simpler. If you read SS reviews, you'll see that pitching difficulty is widely reported as a main downside. The way this actually plays out in the field, is that it is quite reasonable to stake the base of the X-Mid and then add the poles (making the pitching process not vulnerable to collapsing under winds and avoiding measuring pole heights because the staked base will limit them to the correct height), whereas with the SS2 it takes a lot of practice to reliably stake out the base accurately because there is a lot more estimating required (yes there are videos where someone nails this first try but this is not typical), which is why the recommended process is different. When I owned an SS I did eventually switch to a pitching method where I fully staked the base first, but at the time I was pitching it daily (on the PCT) and in the absence of regular use the ability to execute this wanes. Also note that the SS2 doesn't actually contain a true rectangle. The PitchLoc corners trim it back at two of the corners so the "rectangle" is actually a slight diamond (see their diagram). It sounds minor, but these are the details that separate an intuitive tent from a fiddly one. When I was staking out the base I had a carefully honed eye for the diamond, but new users hardly have a chance. So a goal with the X-Mid was to preserve good quantities of the SS (and other trekking pole tents) like the fly first pitch, while increasing the design efficiency (e.g. fewer stakes, seams, struts required) and improving the ease of use. I think the X-Mid 2P achieves that, as it offers very similar space to the SS2 while having the advantages of:
  • 4-6oz lighter (4oz for the tent, 6oz if you consider the SS2 needs more stakes and seam sealing)
  • Much simpler pitch
  • No sag fabric
  • Fabric doesn't absorb water weight
  • No struts requiring a long packed shape
  • Higher end materials (e.g. water resistant zips)
  • Lower price
In terms of weather resistance, this is a complex, debatable subject. For example, the PitchLoc corners of the SS allow snow to slide off the edge so they don't weight the sides of the tent which is a positive, but this also lowers the slope of the roof panels, making snow less likely to slide off. In high winds, the X-Mid has a more even distribution of the load onto the 4 stakes, whereas the SS loads the PitchLoc stakes much moreso than the other ones. You say the SS has less vertical walls and therefore better wind resistance, but the wall slopes are almost identical on the doorwalls. For the other walls, the roof panels of the SS are lower angle (contributing to snow loading) but I don't think this translates into a wind advantage because the SS design still puts such a large portion of the total wind load on the PitchLoc stakes, which is why these are much more likely to rip out (I've used the SS for hundreds of nights including a lot of high winds and it was always the PitchLoc corners that pulled). Also, the peak guylines of the X-Mid substantially help to distribute the wind load because they reduce the load on all four primary stakes, whereas the peak guylines on the SS are located off the smallest wall (which is already the least wind vulnerable), so they do little to lessen the brunt of the load at the PitchLoc stakes. So all of this could be argued - and perhaps in practice both of these tents are stormworthy enough so this is just semantics - but I suggest the X-Mid is at least as good in the snow and high winds - I think better in high winds - and for sure ahead in rainy conditions due to the larger (and close-able) vents, and non-sag, non-water absorbing fabric. Here is an infographic that compares these two tents if anyone wants a better look at how the sizes compared. It overlays the fly and floor areas. One last comment on the tents though is that I don't think you'll find the SS has a vestibule area advantage. The X-Mid vestibules do indeed narrow to a sliver at one end, but the SS vestibules narrow to a sliver at both ends, and the widest point is right where you get in and out, making it less suited for storing a pack which is likely the largest object you'll wish to put in a vestibule. With the X-Mid you can toss your pack at the wider end, save the middle for getting in/out, and still have plenty of vestibule area to cook and store more gear. The X-Mid also has the advantage of keeping more of a vestibule area sheltered when the door is opened, while also having a larger door. Both tents have generous vestibules though, so it's largely semantics. To wrap all of this up, both tents are strong performers with good space. The reasons to choose the X-Mid are that it is meaningfully lighter, simpler pitch and has many advantages that make it nice to use in the field like non-sag fabric, closeable vents, and convenient packed shape. Now for the SS Li. This tent has two major differences from the SS2 which are the use of DCF and a smaller size. Most of what I've said above still applies (e.g. pitching complexity, wind resistance, vestibule area) but now the SS Li is lighter and also doesn't sag, but quite a bit smaller. The SS Li is appreciably lighter (11oz) which is probably achieved about 2/3rds from the DCF and 1/3 from being smaller (e.g. 45" wide floor instead of 50"). Hypothetically, we could also shrink the X-Mid 2P and build it of DCF to create a tent that is even lighter than the SS Li (roughly 25 vs 28oz because it doesn't tie up several ounces in struts, plus fewer seams and stakes) while having many other advantages (e.g wind resistance, simpler pitch, no struts) but at present we don't have that competitor on the market. So the SS Li is in quite a different niche, and perhaps a niche that you prefer if weight is a major consideration, but there is a cost to it. The SS Li would save 11oz which is substantial but the downsides are:
  • Costs $439 more ($689 vs $250)
  • Smaller (5-6" narrower and shorter)
  • Less durable floor (1.0oz DCF won't last as long as 20D poly floor)
  • More complex pitch
  • Long packed shape
It is a nice tent. If money and space aren't major considerations for you, then it would be a good choice to save weight, as we don't have a competitor to that presently. I think the core geometry of the X-Mid is superior, but those advantages may not be enough to outweigh the weight savings of the SS Li for folks that place a big emphasis on weight.
(Edited)
iberger
16
Jul 24, 2019
dandurstonwow, that's an amazing response, again, sorry for making you repeat yourself, hope it's not getting too irksome. It's clear to see that you are passionate about your designs. thanks so much for the more technical explanations especially about the loading and forces on the tent geometries. kinda hard to find definitive information on that kind of detail. I'm definitely going to keep my ears perked for more hints of a dcf fly. I do favor a little more space, comfort, and durability over all-out ultralight, so I hope that whatever happens, it's compatible with the current line of products. It'd be cool to have the option to mix and match, and might be easier to simply manufacture a dcf fly for use with the existing models instead of also making a new inner using dcf, or changing the overall dimensions to save a few extra grams. there's a reason I'm so keen on double wall tents instead of single walls or tarps, I would love for more people to use a reange of materials as tools to lower the weight penalty of a more comfortable and durable setup instead of seeing who can outdo each other on minimizing weight. in the mean time, for weight, ease of use, and cost, I've yet to find a tent to match the x-mid, you rock
(Edited)
ibergerThanks! It would neat to offer simply the same fly but in DCF. I’m not sure how well it would work though because TarpTent said that the reason they made the SS Li smaller was because of the roll width of DCF (e.g. just making the same shape but in DCF would have had a lot of seams than the SS2 does since DCF comes in narrower rolls than their silnylon). That issue may or may not be present in a hypothetical DCF X-Mid 2P fly. I’m not sure because I haven’t put thought into that, but I suspect we probably need to redo everything, or we'd want to so that the design is optimal.
(Edited)
Stormsearch
8
Jul 25, 2019
dandurstonI have been using the SS2 for about 7 years now and like everything about it except the setup. The SS2 has a large footprint along with not easily intuitive on sleep position while pitching. If pitching on rougher terrain, I often times have to re-position the tent to move a protusion out of the sleeping area. If weather might be a factor, I then also have to go to each stake location and move them to apply proper tension. Normally, not an issue but when hiking all day, hungry and bad weather is setting in, begin to start looking at other options. In my backyard setting up for gear check is just not the same under camping conditions. Three years ago I began hiking solo and have replaced a tent 3 times until last year which was the X-Mid 1P. I never bought a SS1 because of the setup. Pitching the X-Mid 1P, it truly is a breeze, 4 rectangular corners, done. The only adjustments I need to make is if I add a guy line to the ridgeline pole for bad incoming weather. Sleeping positions are very easy to envision. All of the improvements of the X-Mid 1P compared to the SS2 were notable but wasn't a huge factor for me except for one design difference; sil-poly. Waking up and not having sag into the inner tent on a damp morning is just something would consider mandatory for me on future purchases. My SS2 will be up for sale after Sept. and ordered the X-Mid 2P. I will miss the SS, it truly is a great tent for weight/size/dual wall.