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Neo.X
57
Oct 9, 2015
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thick or thin?
Oct 9, 2015
AnthonyOoi
329
Oct 9, 2015
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Thin. Very, very thin.
Oct 9, 2015
MiTo
11503
MiTo
Oct 9, 2015
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It is not thin.
This isn't the regular ABS DCS from Signature Plastics, Elemento is completely made on PBT .
I'm pretty sure nobody here ever saw PBT DCS dyesub keycaps (only thing similar ever done were the blanks from Ergodox) made by Signature Plastics.
Elemento is extreme high quality, durable and reliable.
Oct 9, 2015
AnthonyOoi
329
Oct 9, 2015
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Do you have pictures of SP's PBT DCS then? "Elemento is extreme high quality, durable and reliable" is a bold claim and you're gonna need some proof to back that up since all we've seen from SP's DCS line is paper thin keycaps.
Edit: On SP's Q&A page:
19. Why are Signature Plastics’ DCS and DSA style keycaps so thin? As offshore competition for keycaps began to grow in the 1980’s, it became necessary to reduce costs as much as possible to remain competitive. As a result, subsequent families of keycaps, like the DCS and DSA families, were designed to use less material.
Oct 9, 2015
MiTo
11503
MiTo
Oct 9, 2015
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These are basically the keycaps we're gonna have and the top left printing is what printing will look like on GSF. You can either trust me, as I know what I'm doing, or you can keep arguing with inconclusive facts like this Q&A page you quoted (that says abolutely nothing about their PBT DCS).
I know what I'm doing and I trust the company we are working with.
Feel free to skip the group buy if you don't.
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Oct 9, 2015
Sankart
71
Oct 9, 2015
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So you don't have any pictures showing the thickness of the caps?
Oct 9, 2015
Makami
4130
Oct 9, 2015
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Hello Lyqu1d,
i do own several sets made of abs and pbt, dsa and dcs from SP. I trust them and they've always been nice and very helpfull to me if help was needed. But all of them are not the thickest ones, which is fine for me, i've no regrets!
To tell someone "I know what I'm doing and I trust the company we are working with. Feel free to skip the group buy if you don't." doesn't sound very kind and helpfull to a potential buyer of your work to me.
Any company that i know and had business with had done some "prototyping" and samples to judge their own work before "massproduction" and i guess SP did that too.
Why not send a nice mail to Melissa Petersen or Bob and ask if they could tell/measure that and everything would be fine?
Cheers
Oct 9, 2015
MiTo
11503
MiTo
Oct 10, 2015
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People will always find a reason to complain. It doesn't matter which material designers pick, which profile they prefer, what colors they want. For some people it's just never good enough and it gets frustrating sometimes, I don't like this kind of discussion that won't take us anywhere.
His judgement is that the plastic is too thin. Okay, so what he wants me to do? Given the circunstances and the current technology available this is the best we can do. I asked pics and Melissa couldn't deliver due to the lack of a camera. I can't force them to make exactly what a few people want.
The plastic is good enough for me to pick it as the designer, the colors are good and the profile too. I made my choices for a reason and I trust my partners and my designing eye. I've done this before and I'm doing it again, we will have a wonderful fantastic final product and if he disagrees well, I gently recommend him (again) to skip this one.
Oct 10, 2015
lolpes
62
Oct 10, 2015
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I don't think people would complain it this was cherry profile with thick pbt or abs, you are just turning a constructive argument from a user/possible buyer into a direct complaint or offense towards you, which it wasn't, and you are taking that as your counter argument, which consists on playing victim, you would be a good politician ;)
It's not his judgement that the plastic is to thin, he is stating a fact, it is too thin when compared with similar or lower priced alternatives(gateron for example and at this price for a complete set even some imsto dyesub sets)
I find it funny that someone who is helping you with the project at SP does not have a camera or cannot find a camera to take pictures of the keycaps, and for you that is okay as a designer.
Finally you can't just sell your product based on "trust me this is good, if you don't buy you do not believe me", if it is really that good, let it sell by itself, the design is very good, but it is difficult to justify picking this profile and this material, when there are other cheaper options and then saying it is for the community...
Oct 10, 2015
MiTo
11503
MiTo
Oct 10, 2015
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> I find it funny that someone who is helping you with the project at SP does not have a camera or cannot find a camera to take pictures of the keycaps, and for you that is okay as a designer.
There's nothing funny about that. Signature Plastics is a small company on a rural area and group buys aren't their main focus as as business. Several group buys happened without pictures and that's why people trust designers and mockups.
Also I never took anything as an offense. This discussion is meant to encourage constructive criticism and you can either trust that we are going to have a good product or simply walk way. Nothing out there is even remotely close to this set since the level of customization is through the roof with several possible combos.
If you wanna go for IMSTO or whatever other set, be ready to wait. I'm talking about several months, whole seasons of wait. We have a fantastic custom product guaranteed to be delivered at the stated date.
Are there cheaper options? Yes, of course. But have in mind that they are cheaper for a reason and the customization level here obviously has a price. Thank you very much for your presence my friend, I apreciate the support.
Oct 10, 2015
Makami
4130
Oct 10, 2015
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Hi Lyqu1d,
the camera issue for a picture: I'm a little bit older than most people here and i "hate" smartphones, even though i'm a lot into hightech. I've problems to find other people to understand my dislike, but even my simple and old handy has a build in camera, people havn't asked about a "super-duper" polished picture, potatoe quality would have been enough to show what they've asked for.
"People will always find a reason to complain. It doesn't matter which material designers pick, which profile they prefer, what colors they want. For some people it's just never good enough and it gets frustrating sometimes, I don't like this kind of discussion that won't take us anywhere."
This is for sure correct, it's not possible to please everybody all the time, but if the discussion is going nowhere, that might be arguable, depending on the point of view. This burden of frustration, discussion ... came for free, the moment you've chosen to take the path of designing and offering something to the world and you're not alone with that.
Yes, you're bound to SP and the given calculation, material, thickness ... and it's natural for me that you've tried your best. I don't doubt that for a second!
"Are there cheaper options? Yes, of course. But have in mind that they are cheaper for a reason and the customization level here obviously has a price."
I guess you were aiming for my example with Originative for a standard fullsize $30 plus shipping instead of $150 plus shipping. Following this i can't see nothing about "customization level here obviously has a price" and i do own a couple of asian "cheap" keysets and for me it's just not true, that being cheaper is automaticly bad/worse.
Of course it's a valid question to ask how can those prices be achieved and are they fair in relation to the people that make them happen. Maybe turbo capitalism and worldwide trade havn't been such a good idea, i'm gladly waiting for the day this whole system will collapse and i'll smile (but this is offtopic).
I wish you luck with this drop and numbers will tell, but for me having just bought Danger Zone and comparing it with this, the money asked for, which is not up to you, is to much.
Cheers
Oct 10, 2015
MiTo
11503
MiTo
Oct 10, 2015
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Elemento is definitely an expensive set, when I said "customization level" I was actually talking about Elemento specifically, not Originative's or whatever other set. What I tried to say is that the customization features of Elemento makes it an expensive set.
Elemento is not one keyset, it's several keysets combined. If you buy the base set and a couple of novelties, you are basically getting 5 or even more keysets because of the possible variations. That's what makes it unique and for those who can afford, it's a great option to consider, if you're looking for something different.
Looking at our current numbers I can see that the audience:
a) Either didn't like the concept I tried to incorporate into a keyset I designed for them. Colors and icons are bad, legends aren't cool enough and materials are bad; b) They can't afford it because current prices are too high;
Everybody knows that I absolutely love to work with SA and it's my favorite profile. I don't like to use other profiles and I really want to launch Godspeed and other secret SA designs that I have but the manufacturer is flooded right now.
Neverthless, I thought that DCS + PBT + customization was worth a try. If we fail to reach MOQ we will take this as a learning experience and move on to the next project - which will definitely be SA.
Neverthless, thanks for all your valid points, effort in helping others and support my friend. Let me know if you ever need any help.
Oct 10, 2015
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