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billc
410
Aug 22, 2018
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PaLee
95
Aug 22, 2018
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billcGet the Pro.
You'll rest easier and have no mental anguish about what ifs.
If you can manage to break the tip off of the PRO then that's YouTube-worthy.
That's said, Survival Lily really abused that knife. She did manage to "survive" and still use the S1 to do what she needed. Some diehard Fallkniven fans will accuse her of subjecting the knife to more then design limit ( that's true... To some extent). But to me, in a survival situation you gotta do what you gotta. So if you've got to baton with a rock, well then that's what you gotta do.
For the drop price of $140, the S1 is easily in the top 3 of ALL knives out there
That's said, Survival Lily really abused that knife. She did manage to "survive" and still use the S1 to do what she needed. Some diehard Fallkniven fans will accuse her of subjecting the knife to more then design limit ( that's true... To some extent). But to me, in a survival situation you gotta do what you gotta. So if you've got to baton with a rock, well then that's what you gotta do.
For the drop price of $140, the S1 is easily in the top 3 of ALL knives out there
Titanium007
1
Aug 22, 2018
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billcAm I the only person here noticing that her hands and finger nails are practically manicured!? (3:35) There is ZERO chance that this girl is a "survivalist" or for that matter, has ever "roughed it" beyond... "I need to make a video so I can get free stuff and money." I could breakdown that video and PROVE that she is doing TONS of techniques incorrectly, causing more damage to herself and the knife!
Also to point out, there is no "perfect" knife... you can argue this feature, that feature and I guarantee I can counter every single one of them; Higher Hardness can be bad, razor sharp can be bad, stainless can be bad, high carbon can be bad, etc. etc. Having the right techniques is more important than the tool!
It's all a matter of having something vs nothing if you ever get in a survival mode and what is more important, the most important for that matter, is your BRAIN and know how to handle the limited tools and supplies that you do have, to be creative, resourceful and calm. (Did you know that most scuba divers that drowned in wrecks/caves actually have air in their tanks!)
Also to point out, there is no "perfect" knife... you can argue this feature, that feature and I guarantee I can counter every single one of them; Higher Hardness can be bad, razor sharp can be bad, stainless can be bad, high carbon can be bad, etc. etc. Having the right techniques is more important than the tool!
It's all a matter of having something vs nothing if you ever get in a survival mode and what is more important, the most important for that matter, is your BRAIN and know how to handle the limited tools and supplies that you do have, to be creative, resourceful and calm. (Did you know that most scuba divers that drowned in wrecks/caves actually have air in their tanks!)
billc
410
Aug 22, 2018
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PaLeeSorry, this is going to be long:
Respectfully ... I disagree. VG-10 is a great steel for general cutlery use - one of the very best for kitchen cutlery, in fact, and a great steel for folders as well. My Spyderco VG-10 knives, for example, are terrific. But it isn’t a steel whose edge can take a beating, and it isn’t nearly as tough as any number of alternatives, both carbon and stainless. The second failing of this knife (for hard use) is the handle material. Review after review shows it tearing and abrading.
The S1 is a *military* design survival knife. It’s a fighter (different kind of survival), which explains the relatively unsupported tip. Great for stabbing, but bushcraft use calls for a thicker, better-supported point, and clip blades aren’t usually optimal.
All these considerations are differences in design and use emphasis ... trade-offs rather than “quality,” however. The S1 is in all respects a VERY high-quality knife. But one of 3 best under $150? Anyone can construct a 3 best list using selected criteria. I would lean considerations for a civilian survival knife toward bushcraft and general use criteria, for example. I‘m also happy to take care of a carbon blade or, on the flip side, to deal with hard-to-sharpen steels. So my choice in a survival knife might be very different than yours. Candidates that I actually OWN include a Bark River Mini-Kephart in 3V, a Benchmade 162 in S30V, and Mora Companions and Bushcrafters in carbon steels (some coated). There are TONS of “best” knives under $150! In fact, we’re in one of the very times to find them!
My Go Pack has a Bark River Fox River, a Mora Light Your Fire, a small Gränsfors Bruk hatchet, and a small pair of Knipex needle nose pliers, as I find this combination provides the best points of a utility tool like a Leatherman with better usability and quality as well as covering camping, bushcraft, cooking, and general survival use. None are fighting knives.
Now, which would I grab in the proverbial “take one and only item, get pushed off the airplane in the deep woods, see you in a week or two” scenario? Hmmm - not sure. Again, all knives have their trade offs, including of course, the S1. My preference would be carbon steel, though, full-tang, G10 handles, and one of several historical blade shapes tested for such use over time, including puukko, kephart, canadian, spear point or moderate drop point. A straight-spine point with decent belly would be fine also (ala Mora). 1095, O1, and several other steels would be a good choice as they are readily stropped and sharpened with found materials. On the stainless side, a “lesser” steel like 420 would work for the same reason.
Now, drop me in a marine environment and I’d want something completely different! Or let me take a few additional items and I’d lean toward much tougher steel like A2, D2, or 5100. Ditto for urban survival (a ‘hawk or large assisted opening folder, for example). Or desert survival. And, of course, my actual survival bag (Go Pack) has lots of scenario assumptions baked in. ...
In any event, you get the point.
To anyone reading this far - don’t let anyone tell you there is a a limited set of best knives, at any price point. In addition to scenario-based considerations, skills, legalities, budget - even personal considerations like hand strength also have to be considered in arriving at a set of choices.
Now, what’s the “best” prison survival knife?
Respectfully ... I disagree. VG-10 is a great steel for general cutlery use - one of the very best for kitchen cutlery, in fact, and a great steel for folders as well. My Spyderco VG-10 knives, for example, are terrific. But it isn’t a steel whose edge can take a beating, and it isn’t nearly as tough as any number of alternatives, both carbon and stainless. The second failing of this knife (for hard use) is the handle material. Review after review shows it tearing and abrading.
The S1 is a *military* design survival knife. It’s a fighter (different kind of survival), which explains the relatively unsupported tip. Great for stabbing, but bushcraft use calls for a thicker, better-supported point, and clip blades aren’t usually optimal.
All these considerations are differences in design and use emphasis ... trade-offs rather than “quality,” however. The S1 is in all respects a VERY high-quality knife. But one of 3 best under $150? Anyone can construct a 3 best list using selected criteria. I would lean considerations for a civilian survival knife toward bushcraft and general use criteria, for example. I‘m also happy to take care of a carbon blade or, on the flip side, to deal with hard-to-sharpen steels. So my choice in a survival knife might be very different than yours. Candidates that I actually OWN include a Bark River Mini-Kephart in 3V, a Benchmade 162 in S30V, and Mora Companions and Bushcrafters in carbon steels (some coated). There are TONS of “best” knives under $150! In fact, we’re in one of the very times to find them!
My Go Pack has a Bark River Fox River, a Mora Light Your Fire, a small Gränsfors Bruk hatchet, and a small pair of Knipex needle nose pliers, as I find this combination provides the best points of a utility tool like a Leatherman with better usability and quality as well as covering camping, bushcraft, cooking, and general survival use. None are fighting knives.
Now, which would I grab in the proverbial “take one and only item, get pushed off the airplane in the deep woods, see you in a week or two” scenario? Hmmm - not sure. Again, all knives have their trade offs, including of course, the S1. My preference would be carbon steel, though, full-tang, G10 handles, and one of several historical blade shapes tested for such use over time, including puukko, kephart, canadian, spear point or moderate drop point. A straight-spine point with decent belly would be fine also (ala Mora). 1095, O1, and several other steels would be a good choice as they are readily stropped and sharpened with found materials. On the stainless side, a “lesser” steel like 420 would work for the same reason.
Now, drop me in a marine environment and I’d want something completely different! Or let me take a few additional items and I’d lean toward much tougher steel like A2, D2, or 5100. Ditto for urban survival (a ‘hawk or large assisted opening folder, for example). Or desert survival. And, of course, my actual survival bag (Go Pack) has lots of scenario assumptions baked in. ...
In any event, you get the point.
To anyone reading this far - don’t let anyone tell you there is a a limited set of best knives, at any price point. In addition to scenario-based considerations, skills, legalities, budget - even personal considerations like hand strength also have to be considered in arriving at a set of choices.
Now, what’s the “best” prison survival knife?
billc
410
Aug 22, 2018
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Titanium007Excellent comments.
She’s the real deal. You can google her for articles and content apart from her YouTube channel. Not so much a “survivalist” as an outdoors woman.
She’s the real deal. You can google her for articles and content apart from her YouTube channel. Not so much a “survivalist” as an outdoors woman.
PaLee
95
Aug 22, 2018
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billcHowdy billy,
it's great to have your chime in with important information. I learned something new from you. I'm also a knife aficionado like yourself, and have managed to horde a few Bark Rivers too!
A few points I'd like to clarify:
1. The knife in question (S1) is made from laminated VG-10 (420J2-VG10-420J2). The 420J2 is a low-carbon high chromium alloy steel which adds strength to the native VG10. I am led to believe therefore that the blade steel of the S1 will be stronger than pure VG-10
2. I am happy to part <140 for the S1. But that's me. Others may disagree but hey that's what so great about a free country
3. Fallkniven designates the S1 as an adventure knife. The F1 is their military survival knife. With the blade thickness at 5mm for the S1, I'm pretty confident about it.
it's great to have your chime in with important information. I learned something new from you. I'm also a knife aficionado like yourself, and have managed to horde a few Bark Rivers too!
A few points I'd like to clarify:
1. The knife in question (S1) is made from laminated VG-10 (420J2-VG10-420J2). The 420J2 is a low-carbon high chromium alloy steel which adds strength to the native VG10. I am led to believe therefore that the blade steel of the S1 will be stronger than pure VG-10
2. I am happy to part <140 for the S1. But that's me. Others may disagree but hey that's what so great about a free country
3. Fallkniven designates the S1 as an adventure knife. The F1 is their military survival knife. With the blade thickness at 5mm for the S1, I'm pretty confident about it.
billc
410
Aug 22, 2018
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PaLeeAlways nice to meet another Bark River fan!
1) Yup, lamination definitely helps the VG-10 from a strength perspective. Doesn’t help with any chippiness, unfortunately, but that in turn can be helped by changing the bevel angle.
2) $140 is OK. I’ve certainly spent more (as well as a lot less).
3) The S1 was created by Fallkniven as a military knife as a mid-size alternative to the A1 and F1 knives. They didn’t get the contract. Marketing pivoted, renamed it, and re-positioned it for the civilian market. From Fallkniven, quoted from bladeforums.com:
”There were some reasons why we made the S1 Forest Knife and I can tell about some. We had successfully made the F1 Pilote Survival Knife and delivered some thousand pieces to the Swedish Air Force. Listening to a hearsay that the late Swedish Army Commander-in-chief wanted a knife for his guys, we made the A1, another large success. Of course people thought that the F1 was too small and the A1 too large! So, we started developing the M1 ("M" as in Marine) since we had had some very interesting discussions with the Swedish Navy. Due to many reasons, we were not able to hold the introduction of the M1 till those navy guys had decided to buy it or not, so we change the name to S1 Skogskniven which in English is S1 (the) Forest Knife. As you know since before, our company is making knives which can be used by many different users and with regards to the S1 Forest Knife, we found the size very, very attractive and not very common on the Scandinavian market. As a (negative) result of an increasing moose hunting in Sweden, hunters and outdoor people in general started asking for short 3"-blades and suddenly, noone asked for standard 4-5-6 inch blades. Personnaly I like the slightly larger knife better since this knife can be used for lighter chopping. Releasing the S1 after a few years of development showed me that I was right - when the knife was introduced some years ago, it immediately became a great success. The handy 5" blade is loved by many but those who like shorter or longer blades, can go for that. Fifty years ago, the 5-6" blades were very common and those who asked for shorter blades, generally picked up a folder. But, entering the urban living, made longer blades "uncomfortable" to many citizens. What we do is offering some different sizes, our ideas of design, safety and handiness. It�s up to the customer to choose the size he or she likes best, for his/her needs and liking, since the quality is the same all the time. Offering a shiny or tefloncoated blade and some different sheaths will serve many different needs, using the same knife pattern. Still, we will NEVER offer a serrated blade! No man. Take care Peter Hjortberger, Fallkniven AB )”
1) Yup, lamination definitely helps the VG-10 from a strength perspective. Doesn’t help with any chippiness, unfortunately, but that in turn can be helped by changing the bevel angle.
2) $140 is OK. I’ve certainly spent more (as well as a lot less).
3) The S1 was created by Fallkniven as a military knife as a mid-size alternative to the A1 and F1 knives. They didn’t get the contract. Marketing pivoted, renamed it, and re-positioned it for the civilian market. From Fallkniven, quoted from bladeforums.com:
”There were some reasons why we made the S1 Forest Knife and I can tell about some. We had successfully made the F1 Pilote Survival Knife and delivered some thousand pieces to the Swedish Air Force. Listening to a hearsay that the late Swedish Army Commander-in-chief wanted a knife for his guys, we made the A1, another large success. Of course people thought that the F1 was too small and the A1 too large! So, we started developing the M1 ("M" as in Marine) since we had had some very interesting discussions with the Swedish Navy. Due to many reasons, we were not able to hold the introduction of the M1 till those navy guys had decided to buy it or not, so we change the name to S1 Skogskniven which in English is S1 (the) Forest Knife. As you know since before, our company is making knives which can be used by many different users and with regards to the S1 Forest Knife, we found the size very, very attractive and not very common on the Scandinavian market. As a (negative) result of an increasing moose hunting in Sweden, hunters and outdoor people in general started asking for short 3"-blades and suddenly, noone asked for standard 4-5-6 inch blades. Personnaly I like the slightly larger knife better since this knife can be used for lighter chopping. Releasing the S1 after a few years of development showed me that I was right - when the knife was introduced some years ago, it immediately became a great success. The handy 5" blade is loved by many but those who like shorter or longer blades, can go for that. Fifty years ago, the 5-6" blades were very common and those who asked for shorter blades, generally picked up a folder. But, entering the urban living, made longer blades "uncomfortable" to many citizens. What we do is offering some different sizes, our ideas of design, safety and handiness. It�s up to the customer to choose the size he or she likes best, for his/her needs and liking, since the quality is the same all the time. Offering a shiny or tefloncoated blade and some different sheaths will serve many different needs, using the same knife pattern. Still, we will NEVER offer a serrated blade! No man. Take care Peter Hjortberger, Fallkniven AB )”
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Here is one such review (from Survival Lilly, if you are familiar with her): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBWf1P7QDzA