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Showing 1 of 23 conversations about:
kstokley
1282
Business Development
Feb 27, 2020
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Kingdimofkush8159-60HRC. I'll update the specs.
anonomous
558
Apr 1, 2020
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Kingdimofkush81Hrc does not matter in this case. Why.. Read my previous post in this thread.
Microstructure is what matters for performance. This m390 does not have a microstructure for cutting or edge retention. So at 60hrc or even higher it will not act like what m390 is supposed to. They care about the steel name and not the heat treatment nor cutting performance. They want to sell knives that's it. Because people don't know they are taking advantage of customers.
Kingdimofkush81
12
May 11, 2020
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JetskiI know you asked the guy above me what he would recommend but I'll throw this out there.
If you want a knife with m390 and you want it to be worth the money you have paid for it you're best bet would be to buy a Reate or a Spyderco. They've proven to be the best of the production manufacturers with m390.
anonomous
558
May 11, 2020
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Microstructure matters. Please watch this.
Yes hrc matters with the right microstructure. But you cannot compare or use hrc as a customer.
https://youtu.be/PdnkLX-pWik
But yea, if you watch the video you will understand better why hrc matters less than the performance of the steel and the microstructure from the heat treatment done.
It's something most novice knife community guys just don't know because it's not advertised.
Kingdimofkush81
12
May 11, 2020
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JetskiIf you interested in some metrics regarding blade steel performance I recommend outpost76 on YouTube. He has many videos covering the topics and there are always conversations in the comment sections. Cheers.
anonomous
558
May 12, 2020
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Kingdimofkush81I said look at my previous post
https://drop.com/buy/fox-knives-suru-m390-frame-lock-drop-exclusive/talk/2561587?utm_source=linkshare&referer=5C48E6
Where I refer to outpost76 etc. And I'm sure you've already watched the Tom Hosang video I just posted about? since your part of the crew that comments on G's vids? I'm just confused here... Cause hrc doesn't exactly matter. And you would see that from the many cut tests that prove that's not always right. It's just better if consumers ignore hrc unless compared to the same model and same batches of that model. You can't compare from brand to brand. It's more about the heat treatment protocols being used for the desired microstructure.
A 60hrc china d2 and 62hrc china d2 shows almost no improvement in the cut tests. And usa d2 shows double the performance at 60hrc. Reate 60hrc m390 performs better than 99% of the m390 on 60-61hrc. Etc. Hrc matters, it does... But not in respect to advertising to customers from brand to brand. For example if reate used the same heat treatment protocol they use for 60hrc and achieved 62hrc... It would be better performance most likely.
But using a crap protocol isn't going to net you any more performance at a higher hrc. People have too much trust in manufacturs heat treatment and hrc numbers. When they shouldn't. The performance numbers are what people should be putting there money on. Cause an expensive knife with M390 that does t cut well is junk.
When the majority of knives in 14C28N outcut m390 its really sad.
(Edited)
Kingdimofkush81
12
May 12, 2020
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anonomousYeah sorry, I didn't fully read your comment and quickly deleted what I had written once I realized my mistake. Sorry about that.
anonomous
558
May 12, 2020
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Kingdimofkush81Ah no worries. I was just confused. I really want to make sure we were on the same page. Most of these guys on MD don't know anything about this kind of stuff. So I like to provide as much info as I can.
Kingdimofkush81
12
May 12, 2020
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anonomousI appreciate the information. I only skimmed the comment and was admittedly sidetracked and jumped to a conclusion.
I fully agree with everything you've detailed here and in your linked post above. Thank you for taking the time to explain it. Hopefully some of these manufacturers that want to charge premium prices will start use steel that is worth that premium.
Over paying for bunk premium steel really sucks. I'd rather buy that same knife in something done right. Even if it's "only" Sandvik. At least I wouldn't be overpaying for under performance.
method_burger
563
May 17, 2020
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anonomousyes and no.
as customers, we cant really look at the microstructure of the knife beforehand (unless you have visible microstructures like D2). therefore we use rockwell C, which gives some indication of how well the steel is heat treated. and we have to trust anecdotal evidence from other people who actually do these tests. its rather time consuming for regular knife folks. (side note, totally reminded of ZT when they started using s35vn and couldnt heat treat them properly. pretty sure they fixed that by now, its been years)
definitely made this mistake, when i accidentally decarbonized 0-1, but then i thought i would just heat treat it to a higher hardness. edge holding is complete crap, but it still maintained its toughness
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