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Therion
15
May 19, 2018
Sellita is not a bad movement. But ETA is slightly better...How many units are available in this drop? 1000?
mink70
22
May 19, 2018
TherionThe Glycine GL293 movement in this watch is based on a Sellita SW300-1. The Glycine GL293 in my Airman 18 is based on a ETA 2893. Why do you say that the ETA is slightly better? The Sellita movement in this watch is used in watches by by non-Swatch Group owned companies like Oris, Meistersinger, Zenith and IWC—the last of whom can certainly afford to use whatever movement they want. Sellita used to do the finishing work on the ebauches manufactured by ETA, so they are intimately familiar with their movements. What facts is your opinion based on?
Therion
15
May 19, 2018
mink70Hi. My opinion is based on years of collecting watches, mid range and high end. They require servicing every now and then, and my watchsmith, who has about 30 years of experience, says that ETA movements have a better finish, are more reliable, better regulated out of the box and that certain parts are made of better materials. I'm not saying that I stay away from Sellita no matter what, but I prefer ETA, if I have a choice. I know that Glycine has been using Sellita in the last couple of years and that's fine by me. They use a made up name for a movement anyway, so it doesn't really matter which one is masked as a GL293.
MadAnthonyWayne
63
May 19, 2018
TherionOn what are you basing your claim it's a Sellita movement? The Sellita SW330-1 has 25 jewels. The GL293 in this, per the specifications, has 21 jewels, which would make it an ETA 2893-2.
mink70
22
May 19, 2018
TherionAnd here's master watchmaker Johannes Jahnke, comparing similar movements by ETA and Sellita, disagreeing with your watch guy:
"Overall, however, the two movements are so identical in every aspect, it is difficult to have a meaningful discussion about the differences."
The rest is here: https://www.christopherward.com/blog/the-eta-v-sellita-story/
Therion
15
May 19, 2018
MadAnthonyWayneI'm not claiming anything, I'm only replying to mink70. I've read on WUS that Glycine has started using Sellita instead of ETA some time ago for obvious reasons. It was naojin, who said that he sees the Sellita in pic No.5. It's fine by me, I'll join the drop, I don't mind Sellita, like I said in my previous post. It was my watchsmith who was disappointed in the SW200 a while ago. I had some issues with my Edox Hydro Sub and he had to do some work on it and he was surprised that some parts were made of plastic. I don't know what parts exactly, he just said that ETA build quality is better. He managed to repair it anyway and it runs like a champ ever since.
Therion
15
May 19, 2018
mink70OK. Thanks for this piece of information, I appreciate it. Live and learn, right? ;)
mink70
22
May 19, 2018
MadAnthonyWayneI know you were responding to Therion, but the photo of the movement included with this drop shows it's a Sellita—as pointed out below by naojin. Glycine has been using Sellitta movements in their Airman watches for several years—which makes sense give the company's purchase by Invicta. But you're right—the jewel number suggests an ETA. There are some inconsistencies with this drop—like the dial fonts, for instance—that need to be ironed out.
mink70
22
May 19, 2018
TherionI'm just learning this stuff myself :)
MadAnthonyWayne
63
May 20, 2018
TherionConfused about claims of plastic parts. There is no plastic in the SW200-1 itself, including the calendar ring. Could be using plastic for a movement or dial spacer which wouldn't be unusual, but that's not part of the movement.
MadAnthonyWayne
63
May 20, 2018
mink70If it's a Sellita, it must have 25 jewels, not 21 jewels (see the watch specs). There's no option from Sellita for fewer jewels in the movement. (Jeweling options disappeared in the 1980's during the quartz crisis.) Naojin is basing his claim on the oscillating weight shape and its bearing, which doesn't mean much. It can be just about anything as the watch companies often put on their own signed oscillating weights, an extremely simple task. This one is Glycine signed. Removing and installing the oscillating weight on an ETA 289x-2 or its Sellita SW3xx clone requires removing the auto works with it attached. Wouldn't surprise me if they're getting the movements in bulk without the automatic works attached, but supplied separately without any oscillating weight or its bearing. The oscillating weight with bearing attaches to the automatic works with three screws, which can then be mounted to the movement with three more screws. Very simple and very quick task; six screws total and it's done.
Unless the movement caliber is specifically marked on the rotor, determining whether it's an ETA or Sellita looking through the display back requires finding the small caliber marque along the edge of the movement near the balance wheel. You'll need 5x magnification minimum to read it. On most display backs it's difficult to get sufficient light along the edge of the movement to read it. Aside from the ETA or Sellita marque, ETA sometimes engraves the jewel count along the edge of the movement in the same vicinity. If there, it's easier to illuminate, but still requires magnification to read. The picture in this drop has the rotor positioned such that all these markings are obscured by it. Even if they weren't obscured, the resolution of the pictures wouldn't be sufficient to read them.
The ETA plan to eliminate movement supply to anyone outside the Swatch Group has been primarily the ETA 2824-2 and its related 2834-2 and 2836-2 day/date variants ran aground within the past year or two. The demand for these movements within the Swatch Group dropped. To keep their fabrication and assembly lines occupied, they opened back up to supplying others outside the Swatch Group. Supply of 2893-2, part of the 2892A2 family, was never impeded much, if at all.
mink70
22
May 20, 2018
MadAnthonyWayneAt this price level, watch companies almost always use the oscillating rotor that comes with the undecorated movement kit, and have it engraved. Every Airman with an ETA 2893-2 has used the rotor that comes with that movement. The notion that Glycine would buy an ETA movement and replace the oscillating rotor with a Sellita part is absurd.
But yes—given the jewel count, there are two conflicting pieces of information provided here. And two different dials pictured. Massdrop should clarify.
lexord
2
May 20, 2018
mink70I think there is one more thing to consider that the description might be not accurate: DC-4 measures 50 mm lug to lug however the drop says "52 mm".
mink70
22
May 20, 2018
lexordGood point. This is my first drop—does Massdrop ever clarify or answer these questions?
MadAnthonyWayne
63
May 20, 2018
mink70Not absurd if they have a stack of them already sitting on a shelf.
The notion Glycine they would take in complete movements and then disassemble the backside of them to get an oscillating weight off is absurd. Requires removing three screws to remove the automatic works with the oscillating weight attached. Then it requires removing three more screws to remove the oscillating weight with bearing from the automatic works. After that, it requires using a special "bolt" tool to remove the "bolt" holding the bearing onto the oscillating weight. I'm mystified why it's called a "bolt" as it looks nothing like what one would think a bolt should look like. It's more like a very thin washer with cutouts that holds the bearing to the oscillating weight. Only then can the oscillating weight be engraved, carved, cut up, or whatever else they want to do to "sign" or otherwise customize the oscillating weight. The bearing housing is too fragile to leave it on the oscillating weight during the operations used to "sign" it. Repeat all the steps used to get the oscillating weight off in reverse to reassemble the movement.
I just bought this Airman SST 12, GL0073, less than a month ago and it has an ETA 2893-2 inside:
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It doesn't have a display back and even though I've got the proper Jaxa case back wrench and case holder to take the back off, I'm not going to do that on a brand new watch that's still under warranty.
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The specs for the watch specifically state 21 jewels, which cannot possibly be a Sellita SW330-1. From Glycine's web site, this PDF is the current specs for this specific model: http://glycine-watch.ch/uploads/tx_pmxwatchcollection/Airman_SST12_GL0073-GL0073_en_369.pdf Please tell me now that Glycine is lying and deliberately inviting legal action by the US Government's Federal Trade Commission for fraudulent advertising. That would be absurd. The 24-hour aficionados on WUS would be all over them for it. With Glycine now owned by Invicta, they wouldn't hesitate a single second. I can only conclude Glycine is currently using ETA 2893-2 movements in their GMT and 24 hour watches.
Edit: As I thought but needed to verify the relevant agency, they'd also be inviting legal action from the US International Trade Commission which requires disclosure of the number of jewels in watches and watch movements being imported into the US. This is not an agency you want to tangle with regarding imports, import duties and proper declarations regarding what's being imported.
lexord
2
May 21, 2018
mink70From my experience, not really. Only if asked via official support channels.
Dinglebells
101
May 21, 2018
MadAnthonyWayneDon't be too sure. I have an Airman 44 whose spec sheet here http://glycine-watch.ch/uploads/tx_pmxwatchcollection/Airman_44_GL0054-GL0054_en_364.pdf list the movement as having 21 jewels. However, it has a display back and it's clearly a Sellita movement. I bought it last year through Massdrop.
salems
1
May 21, 2018
DinglebellsI agree, Glycine 1953 must be a Sellita. At Dc4 Massdrop Advertisment also says 21 jewels movement but when you receive it you receive a 25 jewels Sellita.
mink70
22
May 21, 2018
lexordThanks. What would those be?
A community member
May 21, 2018
mink70Zenith does not use Sellita. They used it for a short time in their entry level watches but went back to their in-house Elite movements.
BarryS
28
May 21, 2018
MadAnthonyWayneOr perhaps Glycine has yet to update their specs as evidenced by this reply posted on WUS:
“Yes, we were starting to use for our collection 2017 not only ETA, but also Sellita movement. "So we are working with both movements and the quality grade is the same, elabore. You are right - indication right now, which movement is inside which model, is not sufficiently shown on our Website. We will improve this fact within next year.”
There is ample documentation of Sellita movements in Airman (SST-12 included) and other models in this and other threads:
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f18/glycine-using-sellita-movements-now-4583721-post44839785.html#post44839785
As for my personal experience, my 1953 Vintage LE, DC-4 Purist, and Base 22 GA all have ETA movements visible through the caseback. I will make no assumptions about my SST-12 Purist as, like you, I am unwilling to open it up just to find out. Since it is an older pre-Invicta model (ref. #3903 vs. GL0146) an educated guess would be ETA.
Of note, the DC-4 and Base 22 both came back from the Invicta repair center with ETA 2893-2's.