Hi Everyone,
Just want to drop in before the drop ends, and answer some of the comments people have posted here.
It's amazing how quickly people can pass judgement on products and pricing, simply because it doesn't fit in to their perception of the sense of value. I can tell right away, none of the people in this discussion thread have had experience in hands-on production and trying to create something from scratch, and get it produce on a mass scale, then having to deal with distribution.
You see a product posted here, saw the price and immediately think..."hmm, this looks pretty cool, but OMG, the price is ridiculous. I can get that for $5.00 elsewhere, the value is absurd!"
It's like going into an Italian restaurant to order a fresh made pasta for $15 pasta, and complaining how you can get a frozen / microwave pasta at K-Mart for $4.29. What a rip off, no value whatsoever.
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My suggestion is........ go ahead and try to make a product like this yourself. Make it with the same process I do, and put in the attention to details that I do. See how much time you use up in the process, how much of that translate to costs.
Yes, I could have compromise all of these, get them mass produced in China for cheap, sell them dirt cheap, just so I can sell in bulk. I can get a piece made poorly for a buck. Sell it for a set of 3 for 6. Make double the profit, and you guys would be happy with paying on "$6" , while I go home doubling my money, and just sit here doing nothing.
I make these product in small volume made by EDM wire cutting (comparable to making prototype 1 by 1) , and finished partially by hand and partly by mass-media tumbling. In order to produce anything, I have to import and stock Titanium in bulk. I can't order just enough for what I make. Each time I go into production, I order at least $10,000 in material to have it shipped to me before I send these off for production. They are then cut individually before I get them back for hand finishing. The wire cutting factory can cut maybe 30 pcs. per shift per machine if they are lucky, while mass production process can cast / stamp 1,000s of pcs per hours if needed.
Also, when placing orders for an item to be cut, there are minimums. 300 pcs. per order, etc. Guess what I have to do with the rest that are not sold? I stock them.
Packaging are custom made, and just the mold itself cost nearly $15,000, and another $0.50 per plastic case that I order. Again there is a minimum for the items produce. What do I do. Stock them.
Not only are the processes expensive, the design I created, is not typical. The gate you see on these carabiners are the first of their kind, and no factory are willing to mass produce them. I have to cut each one individually and machine them afterward.
Again, I could have made this with bent wires the way all other mass produced biners are made. Those gates cost around $0.10 cents or less, and can be produce 10,000 per hour. I make 100, per day, and it cost around $7.00 just to make the gate alone. Not much difference huh.
So to answer your question of why these cost so much.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. A customize unorthodox product is hard to make, and slow.
2. Production requires a set minimum in both raw materials and production. Often more than the amount needed.
3. Small volume production are much more expensive than big volume productions.
4. Attention to details can double or triple the normal cost of creating one of these.
5. Creating and protecting an idea for a product is very expensive. I have spent $13,000 for patents thus for for this design.
6. Defective items / losses, etc. also occurs.
7. Wholesale cost to retailers, also add to the final price of the products.
Currently, I have spent a year on this design devoting myself full time. After a year, I am only starting to generate profit from this series. Whatever I make, I put back in to my inventory, website and brand building, not to mention trying to maintain my staff to help put things together. Don't forget, even when I have no order, I PAY THEM.
My intentions going into design and manufacturing, was never to make a quick buck. When I go into manufacturing, I choose my partners carefully, using those who have ethical practices, and I pay them fairly. I don't deal with sweat shops, which often occurs with chinese factories, one way or another. I choose my materials carefully, and I work with my staff in details, hands-on, to make each of these.
If you think I am getting rich because I charge $65 for a design that I put my heart and soul into, think again. Better yet, try to make something your self, and see what happens. See how much you think your product should be sold for.
Sense of value is very relative. You spend $6-10 for a product that cost $0.29 cents to make (20X mark up +), like an iphone case, etc., and you feel like you are getting value Yet spend $65 on a custom product, like a knife or a carabiner that cost $25-40 to make (2X mark up ) and you making comments on how pricy something is, and comparing it to mass produced goods from China.
I learned this through experience. Before you complain about prices and chalking something up to "wanton consumerism", and "hype", you may want to get to know the reasoning behind how something is made, and how much they cost, before passing judgement on "value." If design, time, effort, devotion, fair labor practices, and environmental awareness in production, means nothing to you, then yes, go buy what ever is cheapest online. My efforts here obviously means nothing.
Lastly, I stock 10K worth of titanium, to start this production run for mass drop. If I'm lucky, I make around $18 per carabiner, sold here after all expenses. So if this drops ends at 100 pcs. sold, I make off with $1,800.... Yeah, I'm gonna get rich real soon.
Cheers,
Sunny
Just want to drop in before the drop ends, and answer some of the comments people have posted here.
It's amazing how quickly people can pass judgement on products and pricing, simply because it doesn't fit in to their perception of the sense of value. I can tell right away, none of the people in this discussion thread have had experience in hands-on production and trying to create something from scratch, and get it produce on a mass scale, then having to deal with distribution.
You see a product posted here, saw the price and immediately think..."hmm, this looks pretty cool, but OMG, the price is ridiculous. I can get that for $5.00 elsewhere, the value is absurd!"
It's like going into an Italian restaurant to order a fresh made pasta for $15 pasta, and complaining how you can get a frozen / microwave pasta at K-Mart for $4.29. What a rip off, no value whatsoever.
--------------------------------------------------- My suggestion is........ go ahead and try to make a product like this yourself. Make it with the same process I do, and put in the attention to details that I do. See how much time you use up in the process, how much of that translate to costs.
Yes, I could have compromise all of these, get them mass produced in China for cheap, sell them dirt cheap, just so I can sell in bulk. I can get a piece made poorly for a buck. Sell it for a set of 3 for 6. Make double the profit, and you guys would be happy with paying on "$6" , while I go home doubling my money, and just sit here doing nothing.
I make these product in small volume made by EDM wire cutting (comparable to making prototype 1 by 1) , and finished partially by hand and partly by mass-media tumbling. In order to produce anything, I have to import and stock Titanium in bulk. I can't order just enough for what I make. Each time I go into production, I order at least $10,000 in material to have it shipped to me before I send these off for production. They are then cut individually before I get them back for hand finishing. The wire cutting factory can cut maybe 30 pcs. per shift per machine if they are lucky, while mass production process can cast / stamp 1,000s of pcs per hours if needed.
Also, when placing orders for an item to be cut, there are minimums. 300 pcs. per order, etc. Guess what I have to do with the rest that are not sold? I stock them.
Packaging are custom made, and just the mold itself cost nearly $15,000, and another $0.50 per plastic case that I order. Again there is a minimum for the items produce. What do I do. Stock them.
Not only are the processes expensive, the design I created, is not typical. The gate you see on these carabiners are the first of their kind, and no factory are willing to mass produce them. I have to cut each one individually and machine them afterward.
Again, I could have made this with bent wires the way all other mass produced biners are made. Those gates cost around $0.10 cents or less, and can be produce 10,000 per hour. I make 100, per day, and it cost around $7.00 just to make the gate alone. Not much difference huh.
So to answer your question of why these cost so much. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. A customize unorthodox product is hard to make, and slow. 2. Production requires a set minimum in both raw materials and production. Often more than the amount needed. 3. Small volume production are much more expensive than big volume productions. 4. Attention to details can double or triple the normal cost of creating one of these. 5. Creating and protecting an idea for a product is very expensive. I have spent $13,000 for patents thus for for this design. 6. Defective items / losses, etc. also occurs. 7. Wholesale cost to retailers, also add to the final price of the products.
Currently, I have spent a year on this design devoting myself full time. After a year, I am only starting to generate profit from this series. Whatever I make, I put back in to my inventory, website and brand building, not to mention trying to maintain my staff to help put things together. Don't forget, even when I have no order, I PAY THEM.
My intentions going into design and manufacturing, was never to make a quick buck. When I go into manufacturing, I choose my partners carefully, using those who have ethical practices, and I pay them fairly. I don't deal with sweat shops, which often occurs with chinese factories, one way or another. I choose my materials carefully, and I work with my staff in details, hands-on, to make each of these.
If you think I am getting rich because I charge $65 for a design that I put my heart and soul into, think again. Better yet, try to make something your self, and see what happens. See how much you think your product should be sold for.
Sense of value is very relative. You spend $6-10 for a product that cost $0.29 cents to make (20X mark up +), like an iphone case, etc., and you feel like you are getting value Yet spend $65 on a custom product, like a knife or a carabiner that cost $25-40 to make (2X mark up ) and you making comments on how pricy something is, and comparing it to mass produced goods from China.
I learned this through experience. Before you complain about prices and chalking something up to "wanton consumerism", and "hype", you may want to get to know the reasoning behind how something is made, and how much they cost, before passing judgement on "value." If design, time, effort, devotion, fair labor practices, and environmental awareness in production, means nothing to you, then yes, go buy what ever is cheapest online. My efforts here obviously means nothing.
Lastly, I stock 10K worth of titanium, to start this production run for mass drop. If I'm lucky, I make around $18 per carabiner, sold here after all expenses. So if this drops ends at 100 pcs. sold, I make off with $1,800.... Yeah, I'm gonna get rich real soon.
Cheers, Sunny