Click to view our Accessibility Statement or contact us with accessibility-related questions
Showing 1 of 18 conversations about:
Anonymouse
216
Mar 24, 2014
bookmark_border
Parker
6
Mar 24, 2014
bookmark_border
AnonymouseThis is pretty standard. More electrostatics dont like to go below 100hz. It's good that the company can admit that electrostatics do have a weakness, similar to how Martin Logan has hybrid's as well.
Anonymouse
216
Mar 24, 2014
bookmark_border
ParkerI'm not taking issue to it being a hybrid design, I'm taking issue to the fact they allow the consumer to assume it's a pure electrostatic design. There's no reference to "hybrid" or "dynamic" driver anywhere in the description. Just a vague "neodymium driver" comment, which is not a standardised term for a speaker driver type, just one element present in possible rare-earth magnet designs, which are used in many driver designs. The term seems to be deliberately chosen to try to conceal the presence of a dynamic driver.
Plus, this particular hybrid design, which crosses over really high up, doesn't really take advantage of the design pluses of electrostatic drivers, other than as a marketing buzzword. Most hybrids use the electrostatic panels to produce almost the full range of the spectrum, and the dynamic driver to fill in only the VERY low bass a panel can't produce, but a 2" 2 watt driver isn't going to produce anything even approaching "bass". These 'stat panels are basically just tweeters, not remotely full-range. The fact they don't list the crossover frequency (or even the total frequency response) in the spec only reinforces this, because this usually means they don't want you to see it, because it's terrible. I don't know where the comment about "impressive specs" above came from, because there are no meaningful specs related to actual perfomance for this product quoted ANYWHERE, except total power output (2W + 2W + 2W = 6W), which is pretty damn low.
Given it's appearance and marketing blurb, it seems to be yet another portable audio product sold on looks and styling rather than actual sonic performance, looking to take advantage of the recent boom.
Edit: Oh wait, here's a claimed frequency response, on the Massdrop blurb but not on the manufacturer's page: "Frequency Response: 10Hz to 22 kHz" There's not a chance in hell a 2" woofer extends usably down to 10Hz, let alone even flatly to 100. The measurement only makes sense in context of a specified range of variation, though, which deliberately ISN'T specified in this case, again, most likely because it's awful. Specifying a really massive range of allowable variation might make the 10Hz figure possible, for example, 10Hz to 22KHz, +/- 20dB, but it also makes that range meaningless as a predictor of performance. Speakers' frequency response range is generally specified over +/- 3dB, though, 6dB at the absolute outside. Sending a 10Hz test tone to this thing, the only thing you'd hear is higher harmonics and vibration noise. The 10Hz figure is not remotely realistic.
Plus, this particular hybrid design, which crosses over really high up, doesn't really take advantage of the design pluses of electrostatic drivers, other than as a marketing buzzword. Most hybrids use the electrostatic panels to produce almost the full range of the spectrum, and the dynamic driver to fill in only the VERY low bass a panel can't produce, but a 2" 2 watt driver isn't going to produce anything even approaching "bass". These 'stat panels are basically just tweeters, not remotely full-range. The fact they don't list the crossover frequency (or even the total frequency response) in the spec only reinforces this, because this usually means they don't want you to see it, because it's terrible. I don't know where the comment about "impressive specs" above came from, because there are no meaningful specs related to actual perfomance for this product quoted ANYWHERE, except total power output (2W + 2W + 2W = 6W), which is pretty damn low.
Given it's appearance and marketing blurb, it seems to be yet another portable audio product sold on looks and styling rather than actual sonic performance, looking to take advantage of the recent boom.
Edit: Oh wait, here's a claimed frequency response, on the Massdrop blurb but not on the manufacturer's page: "Frequency Response: 10Hz to 22 kHz" There's not a chance in hell a 2" woofer extends usably down to 10Hz, let alone even flatly to 100. The measurement only makes sense in context of a specified range of variation, though, which deliberately ISN'T specified in this case, again, most likely because it's awful. Specifying a really massive range of allowable variation might make the 10Hz figure possible, for example, 10Hz to 22KHz, +/- 20dB, but it also makes that range meaningless as a predictor of performance. Speakers' frequency response range is generally specified over +/- 3dB, though, 6dB at the absolute outside. Sending a 10Hz test tone to this thing, the only thing you'd hear is higher harmonics and vibration noise. The 10Hz figure is not remotely realistic.
jmbd7h3
11
Mar 25, 2014
bookmark_border
AnonymouseI found a demo of the thing on YouTube. Not a brilliant way to test a speaker, but it sounded plenty good enough to warrant $200 in my opinion. I can always get most of my money back by selling this on ebay if I don't like it.
I had a very similar speaker many years ago and liked it very much. The batteries lasted forever and the sound quality was fantastic for a portable speaker. I'd still be using that old speaker today if I hadn't given it to someone who needed it.
Let us not forget this is a portable speaker with a similar target to the Jawbone Jambox, Logitech Boom, and the like. This is not a $15,000 set of electrostats.
Let us not forget this is a portable speaker with a similar target to the Jawbone Jambox, Logitech Boom, and the like. This is not a $15,000 set of electrostats.
Anonymouse
216
Mar 25, 2014
bookmark_border
jmbd7h3"Let us not forget this is a portable speaker with a similar target to the Jawbone Jambox, Logitech Boom, and the like. This is not a $15,000 set of electrostats."
Right. So why try to create the impression that it has the specs of a $10K+ set, with ridiculous figures like 10Hz-22KHz frequency range which there is no way in hell it's capable of achieving? Diningenuous marketing, that's why. All flash, no function. Most customers of this product are gonna buy it based on looks, not sound. That's like buying a TV based on bezel styling and ignoring the 2" extremely-dim screen, but it's the way the mainstream audio industry has gone, and it's a combination of consumer apathy and strategic marketing that's driven it there.
Right. So why try to create the impression that it has the specs of a $10K+ set, with ridiculous figures like 10Hz-22KHz frequency range which there is no way in hell it's capable of achieving? Diningenuous marketing, that's why. All flash, no function. Most customers of this product are gonna buy it based on looks, not sound. That's like buying a TV based on bezel styling and ignoring the 2" extremely-dim screen, but it's the way the mainstream audio industry has gone, and it's a combination of consumer apathy and strategic marketing that's driven it there.
AndrewLekashman
2368
Input Club
Mar 25, 2014
bookmark_border
AnonymouseYou can take a deeper look into these Self-Biased Electrostatics (SBESL), tell me what you think - http://www.tw-teec.com/
The section you're looking for is at the bottom of the Technologies and Applications page.
Enigma Acoustics is also jumping on board with SBESL's, so maybe it's worth a bit deeper investigation?
The section you're looking for is at the bottom of the Technologies and Applications page.
Enigma Acoustics is also jumping on board with SBESL's, so maybe it's worth a bit deeper investigation?
Anonymouse
216
Mar 25, 2014
bookmark_border
AndrewLekashman"You can take a deeper look into these Self-Biased Electrostatics (SBESL), tell me what you think - http://www.tw-teec.com/"
Their "Fresco" model looks EXACTLY like the in2uit "Collage" model, to the point I bet it IS the same model. Now I wonder who actually makes this stuff.
The "Canvas Speaker" and the "Canvas Speaker Mini" look like they might be interesting products, but again there's no meaningful specs quoted for either. They do appear to have decently-large panels and (in the case of the mini) a woofer unit that might actually do something (but notactual sub-bass). In the $200-400 range, with appropriate hardware spec for the actual price-point targeted, they could potentially be pretty cool as an exotic mid-fi desktop solution. Wouldn't expect to drive a party with them, though.
Also if you look at their "Music Panel" (http://www.tw-teec.com/style/frame/templates11/product_detail.asp?lang=2&customer_id=829&name_id=40260&content_set=color_4&rid=0&id=136939) system, you'll see they quote a reasonable frequency extention, down to 100Hz, and that system has a 2.75" woofer in a separate enclosure vs the in2uiit's 2" one in the skinny in-panel enclosure. Are you sure the 10Hz figure in the Massdrop blurb isn't a typo? Maybe a digit between the 1 and 0 was omitted?
Their "Fresco" model looks EXACTLY like the in2uit "Collage" model, to the point I bet it IS the same model. Now I wonder who actually makes this stuff.
The "Canvas Speaker" and the "Canvas Speaker Mini" look like they might be interesting products, but again there's no meaningful specs quoted for either. They do appear to have decently-large panels and (in the case of the mini) a woofer unit that might actually do something (but notactual sub-bass). In the $200-400 range, with appropriate hardware spec for the actual price-point targeted, they could potentially be pretty cool as an exotic mid-fi desktop solution. Wouldn't expect to drive a party with them, though.
Also if you look at their "Music Panel" (http://www.tw-teec.com/style/frame/templates11/product_detail.asp?lang=2&customer_id=829&name_id=40260&content_set=color_4&rid=0&id=136939) system, you'll see they quote a reasonable frequency extention, down to 100Hz, and that system has a 2.75" woofer in a separate enclosure vs the in2uiit's 2" one in the skinny in-panel enclosure. Are you sure the 10Hz figure in the Massdrop blurb isn't a typo? Maybe a digit between the 1 and 0 was omitted?
AndrewLekashman
2368
Input Club
Mar 26, 2014
bookmark_border
AnonymouseI posted the link in the comments, here it is - http://www.in2uit.com/tech2.asp
Scroll to the bottom, as far as I can tell there is no typo.
I have a Collage and a Filo at the Massdrop office, and while the bass is as expected, it reproduces my italian piano tracks from Ludovico Einaudi incredibly well, and Will played Pink Floyd's "Money" on it and it had great cash register reproduction.
My conclusion on these, and the reason I decided to list these was that they were the optimal introductory product for people that wanted to try Electrostatics without dropping a grand.
Scroll to the bottom, as far as I can tell there is no typo.
I have a Collage and a Filo at the Massdrop office, and while the bass is as expected, it reproduces my italian piano tracks from Ludovico Einaudi incredibly well, and Will played Pink Floyd's "Money" on it and it had great cash register reproduction.
My conclusion on these, and the reason I decided to list these was that they were the optimal introductory product for people that wanted to try Electrostatics without dropping a grand.
Anonymouse
216
Mar 26, 2014
bookmark_border
AndrewLekashmanAha! Mystery solved. Those aren't performance specs for the speaker system playback, they're for the apt-X bluetooth audio protocol that it implements to stream audio to its internal DAC to produce the analog signal for speaker playback. Read the bottom of the page again:
---
Wireless Technology –
Which wireless protocol?
Well there really isn't a correct answer to this question; however for IN2UIT we chose the partner we believed matched our specific needs. Obviously there is Airplay, Bluetooth and a number of other proprietary wireless audio protocols. In the end we chose the natural solution for us, a company and product that is dynamic and has made real inroads to the quality of Bluetooth audio. We chose CSR and apt-X Bluetooth codec for many reasons.
Firstly apt-X has superior Bluetooth audio quality, delivering high-fidelity sound comparable to CD quality. Apt-X's ever expanding market share and expanding portfolio, reaches a far wider range of source devices, especially smart phones, and low power consumption allows for long playtimes, small form factors, and easy portability. Apt-X encoded audio fits neatly within the available bandwidth of wireless transmission standards to offer an efficient solution for band-width restricted connections. By incorporating apt-X® audio coding technology into their new models, brands can offer consumers audio quality indistinguishable from wired with an impressive dynamic range.
Benefits
Outstanding Bluetooth® Stereo audio quality Audio bandwidth matching CD performance Flat frequency response. Full audio bandwidth faithfully reproduced Low audio coding delay. Minimizes latency and ‘lip-sync’ issues Non-destructive transcoding, means there are no dueling effects with other algorithms Uses Time Domain ADPCM principle rather than Psychoacoustic masking Small code / data memory size Backward Compatibility: when apt-X is not available target device will pair down to SBC
Product Details
The apt-X audio codec is available for high quality stereo audio over Bluetooth. When incorporated in Bluetooth A2DP Stereo products, apt-X audio coding delivers full 'wired' audio quality. With the apt-X audio codec source material is transparently delivered over the Bluetooth link, whether it is stored uncompressed or in an alternative compression
Key Features
Compression ratio: 4:1 Audio Format: 16-bit, 44.1 kHz (CD-Quality) Data Rates: 352kbps Frequency Response: 10Hz to 22 kHz Algorithmic Delay: <1.89ms @ Fs 48 KHz Dynamic Range: 16-bit: >92dB THD+N: -68.8dB
Which wireless protocol?
Well there really isn't a correct answer to this question; however for IN2UIT we chose the partner we believed matched our specific needs. Obviously there is Airplay, Bluetooth and a number of other proprietary wireless audio protocols. In the end we chose the natural solution for us, a company and product that is dynamic and has made real inroads to the quality of Bluetooth audio. We chose CSR and apt-X Bluetooth codec for many reasons.
Firstly apt-X has superior Bluetooth audio quality, delivering high-fidelity sound comparable to CD quality. Apt-X's ever expanding market share and expanding portfolio, reaches a far wider range of source devices, especially smart phones, and low power consumption allows for long playtimes, small form factors, and easy portability. Apt-X encoded audio fits neatly within the available bandwidth of wireless transmission standards to offer an efficient solution for band-width restricted connections. By incorporating apt-X® audio coding technology into their new models, brands can offer consumers audio quality indistinguishable from wired with an impressive dynamic range.
Benefits
Outstanding Bluetooth® Stereo audio quality Audio bandwidth matching CD performance Flat frequency response. Full audio bandwidth faithfully reproduced Low audio coding delay. Minimizes latency and ‘lip-sync’ issues Non-destructive transcoding, means there are no dueling effects with other algorithms Uses Time Domain ADPCM principle rather than Psychoacoustic masking Small code / data memory size Backward Compatibility: when apt-X is not available target device will pair down to SBC
Product Details
The apt-X audio codec is available for high quality stereo audio over Bluetooth. When incorporated in Bluetooth A2DP Stereo products, apt-X audio coding delivers full 'wired' audio quality. With the apt-X audio codec source material is transparently delivered over the Bluetooth link, whether it is stored uncompressed or in an alternative compression
Key Features
Compression ratio: 4:1 Audio Format: 16-bit, 44.1 kHz (CD-Quality) Data Rates: 352kbps Frequency Response: 10Hz to 22 kHz Algorithmic Delay: <1.89ms @ Fs 48 KHz Dynamic Range: 16-bit: >92dB THD+N: -68.8dB
AndrewLekashman
2368
Input Club
Mar 26, 2014
bookmark_border
AnonymouseOh snap, you're absolutely correct. I'll reach out to In2uit tonight and get an update!
Area51Brett
18
Mar 26, 2014
bookmark_border
AndrewLekashmanLooking in the manual, http://www.in2uit.com/FILO_MANUAL.pdf , I found these specs:
System Two-way active speaker Frequency Response (+/- 3 dB) 150Hz – 30kHz Sensitivity (1m/1W on axis) 80dB Power consumption Idle: 1.8W / Max: 2W Amplifier power Tweeter: 2+2W / Woofer: 2W Bass Principle Closed Crossover Frequency 1.5kHz Crossover Slope 12db/Oct Tweeter ELECTROSTATZ ® ESL x 2 Woofer 52 mm PP cone Weight (kg) 0.8 Dimensions (W x H x D) ( mm ) 440 X 182 X 62
System Two-way active speaker Frequency Response (+/- 3 dB) 150Hz – 30kHz Sensitivity (1m/1W on axis) 80dB Power consumption Idle: 1.8W / Max: 2W Amplifier power Tweeter: 2+2W / Woofer: 2W Bass Principle Closed Crossover Frequency 1.5kHz Crossover Slope 12db/Oct Tweeter ELECTROSTATZ ® ESL x 2 Woofer 52 mm PP cone Weight (kg) 0.8 Dimensions (W x H x D) ( mm ) 440 X 182 X 62
AndrewLekashman
2368
Input Club
Mar 27, 2014
bookmark_border
Area51BrettThis has been added to the specs, thanks!
IN2UITVICTOR
0
IN2UITVICTOR
Apr 3, 2014
bookmark_border
AnonymouseHello Anonymouse
I am from IN2UIT. we appreciate your comments in regarding to our brand and products.
Didn't want to explain anything during the DROP , It may seem defensive and affecting judgement to the others. However, do allow me to answer some of the questions that I know.
1. Who make this STUFF ? ANS: TEEC and us. Why ? TEEC is actually a sub contract R&D lab which partly own by the government of Taiwan ( sort of speak it has layers and layers of different departments on top but in the end government has some investment inside also they released the technology of SBEL to TEEC ) TEEC and IN2UIT belongs to the same group , our chairman is the largest shareholder of TEEC and SBEL is our core technology since 2011. SO, seriously SBEL is made by TEEC and we use SBEL and design and make products. We do almost everything in house starting from scratch. I don't know if my answer of who and were the STUFF being made is clear .
2. To compare Cavans Speakers with us is not really fair. Ok, but not fair ( actually their are quite a few brands and similar products ) Looking at Cavans products ( for the audio )are design to have bigger out put such as home theater and larger spaces. clearly they will consume more voltage and will have separate sub woofer somewhere for the low Freq. I can't tell what the specs of the driver units that they use. FILO is ONLY a desk top / wall mounted speaker which provides convenient ways to listen to music. http://www.prodisplay.com/art-flat-panel-speakers.html If this is the Cavans speaker you refer to.
3. IN2UIT has never wanted to miss leading any customers partners that it is PURE Electrostatic Speaker. We understand our material and we know we need driver unit to increase the low frequency. We know low frequency is very important. Just looking at the price that we are selling compare to Martin Logan and Quad ( they are PURE indeed electrostatic and they also need sub woofer as well ) we apologize if our webiste or information gives anyone that impression , we will improve.
Thanks so much!
1. Who make this STUFF ? ANS: TEEC and us. Why ? TEEC is actually a sub contract R&D lab which partly own by the government of Taiwan ( sort of speak it has layers and layers of different departments on top but in the end government has some investment inside also they released the technology of SBEL to TEEC ) TEEC and IN2UIT belongs to the same group , our chairman is the largest shareholder of TEEC and SBEL is our core technology since 2011. SO, seriously SBEL is made by TEEC and we use SBEL and design and make products. We do almost everything in house starting from scratch. I don't know if my answer of who and were the STUFF being made is clear .
2. To compare Cavans Speakers with us is not really fair. Ok, but not fair ( actually their are quite a few brands and similar products ) Looking at Cavans products ( for the audio )are design to have bigger out put such as home theater and larger spaces. clearly they will consume more voltage and will have separate sub woofer somewhere for the low Freq. I can't tell what the specs of the driver units that they use. FILO is ONLY a desk top / wall mounted speaker which provides convenient ways to listen to music. http://www.prodisplay.com/art-flat-panel-speakers.html If this is the Cavans speaker you refer to.
3. IN2UIT has never wanted to miss leading any customers partners that it is PURE Electrostatic Speaker. We understand our material and we know we need driver unit to increase the low frequency. We know low frequency is very important. Just looking at the price that we are selling compare to Martin Logan and Quad ( they are PURE indeed electrostatic and they also need sub woofer as well ) we apologize if our webiste or information gives anyone that impression , we will improve.
Thanks so much!
RyceCreem
7
Apr 6, 2014
bookmark_border
IN2UITVICTORWhere can I buy your speakers from? its not accessible from most places.
Related Products
Drop Refurbished
Like-new products you can trustDrop Rewards
Get $5 for every 500 points you earn! Learn more
Drop Keyboard Club
Become a member and expand your keycap collectionCollaborate With Us
For Brands & DesignersFollow Drop
Nice to see cheaper electrostat options, but this system seems more about flash than function to me. It's also interesting to note that they refer to these same panels as "electrostatic tweeters" in the rest of their line-up (which are all hybrids too) which doesn't bode well for full-spectrum panel response.