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reswright
3850
Aug 9, 2020
If the bolster isn't the same material as the blade, it's not forged to shape -- it's diecut, ground and or welded to shape, which offers somewhat inferior performance over the long term. Forging realigns the steel alloy matrix, which was probably initially shaped by rolling the steel, to follow the curves of the knife instead of just running parallel the length of the knife -- this makes it harder for the steel to chip or crack from use. The bolster being one piece with the blade, as opposed to a couple hunks of steel welded into place on the tang, offers real improvements in blade strength overall. Does any of that mean that you won't be able to cut celery with a diecut, welded knife like this that's had some bolsters tacked on to resemble a more premium type of knife? No, it's gonna cut celery too. You can cook with inexpensive diecut knives all day long, they're just going to make you work a little harder and be a little less resilient, it's not an injustice for the ages to have to do it, the worst you're gonna see is some tendonitis. So why'm I pointing this out? Because frankly you should either just stick to an ok, inexpensive set of die cut chef knives or else pay extra for the performance forging gives you. Paying a halfway price for a knife that just looks a lot like it was properly forged isn't going to get you where you want to be, it's aspirational. You're just paying extra for the semblance of a better product and lining someone's pockets. And if you have someone like me over and wanna impress me with your new bougie knife set, I'll spend the evening feeling vaguely bad for you. Two cents, but trust me, if you spend much time in the kitchen, it's two cents you're gonna need.
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Spectralis
13
Aug 10, 2020
reswrightWhat knife might you recommend for purchase?
reswright
3850
Aug 10, 2020
SpectralisIt depends on a lot of factors -- your skill level, what you cook, how often, how strong you are, and of course how much money you wanna spend. I generally suggest that people who are new to the use of decent cooking knives start out with a European style chef knife, 6 or 8 inches based on your arm strength. I generally tell people to pick up a Wusthof Classic chef knife for their first real knife. Note: Classic. Not Gourmet (which is diecut steel, not forged) and not Ikon (which cost more but at this point aren't giving you more in return). Not any other kind of Wusthof. Get the Classic. Just buy the one knife to start, unless you see, like, a two knife set that's chef knife and paring knife: you'll have a use for the paring knife too, but there's nothing worse than splashing out on an expensive block set of knives and then discovering you don't really like them. In my experience most people who buy the whole block set of knives only ever use about half the knives in it anyway and having that fat block fulla expensive looking knives is more a prestige thing, a 'having arrived' thing than a functional thing. Lest you think I'm shilling for Wusthof, there's other decent brands. Messermeister is another good brand for European style chef knives, and Drop offers them on occasion. They're often less expensive than Wusthof. Just make sure you get one that is forged and has a proper bolster -- don't get a chef knife without a bolster unless you really know your stuff, you really know what you're getting and you really know why it's a good choice for you. Some knives come with bolsters that are welded on, meant to look like more expensive, higher quality knives. If the description doesn't flat out say 'forged from a single piece of steel', it isn't -- that's not the sort of thing anyone forgets to put in their ad copy. Henckels also has similar knives, I've just never used them so can't comment on whether you want one, but they're fairly common and I've never heard people bitch about their quality. There's very little you can't do with a chef knife, and even less you can't do with a chef knife and paring knife. If you use them and find you want other knives as well (like a bread slicing knife, a deli knife, a cleaver, a carving knife, a serrated tomato knife, a boning knife etc) then pick them up, that's fine. But stick to the Western style knives until you're fully used to working with them. Once you've got that down pat, you have a choice to make. Are you good to go? If so, save the dough and work with what you have. If you've caught the bug and would like to do Asian things like cutting paper thin veggies and shaving fish and yadda yadda, then I recommend getting a santoku (the type of knife on sale here) and a nakiri (kind of like an extremely thin, narrow cleaver, with if anything an even thinner grind). These are still double bevel knives, but they have a thinner angle. You'll be a bit surprised at how easier it is to cut certain things, mostly vegetables, with these knives, but DO at least watch a video on their use first -- I know this might sound kinda funny, but trust me. Everyone that's used to Western knives messes up their Japanese edges if they just try to use them like Western knives. 'Everyone' included me when I was first starting out and, it will include you. Some people try to sharpen them on Western machines which are set up for a thicker grind angle, and that's just a damn mess when it happens. Also note that some very good Japanese knives don't come with bolsters. It's less of an issue on them because you're not using them like workhorse knives, they're more used like razor blades, but at the same time, it's one more reason you are careful with them where you might not be super careful with a hefty 8 inch full tang hunk of forged bolstered and beveled German steel. That said? Once you have the skills, Japanese knives are pretty cool. If you end up liking the santoku and nakiri and find that keeping them in decent shape is within your abilities, you may come to prefer them eventually to the heavier, thicker ground Western kitchen knives you started out with. If you find yourself there, that's a good point to look at a gyuto, which is the closest Japanese knife to a Western chef knife, and also THE main knife in a Japanese kitchen. Don't just start out with one, though. It's going to be expensive (there’s little point to trying to do it on the cheap) and it’s a bad investment if you can't keep the edge keen or simply have little cause to use it. Until you have a feel for the differences, it'll just seem like a weird chef knife that's too easy to mess up the edge, and after that there's a whole world of single bevel, thin as hell Japanese cutlery that can get pretty expensive and can't be sharpened with normal Western gear. The last thing I'd say here is that special exotic steels, like expensive pocket knife steels, or Japanese steels like 'white paper', or super blue (Japanese cutlery steels are often informally designated by the color of paper label the forge puts on them), generally are wasted on kitchen knives until you've got your black belt in using them as discussed above. They sound super luxe and desirable, but three quarters of them are just runaway consumerist nerd bait and the other quarter are meant for people with professional skill level -- they really won't make a difference to the person with typical skills, and in fact can be worse in the long run. More to the point, be aware that people get fleeced left and right buying these things if they don't know the underlying stuff. You're standing on the edge of the rabbit hole and people are gonna be willing to charge you thousands of dollars whether or not it’s in your best interest, because you're entering a market where top end professionals shop, and it's not a good place for dilettantes to find themselves. If you don't cook like someone's grandmother on three hits of speed, they're just separating you from your money. If you have a thousand dollar blue steel usuba and you aren't using it to shave paper thin radishes you can see through, if you have a white paper yanagi and you aren't making presentation grade sushi with it, don't be surprised if the people who sell them to you refer to you as 'the baka with the money' because that's gonna be you through and through and it ain't a good look. Just by way of context: I cooked professionally, I cook at home, I love sushi and Japanese food in general, and I buy knives I like, including some fairly expensive ones. I use my santokus and nakiris fairly often ... but I have never seriously considered buying a gyuto, let alone the single edge stuff. It’s just more than I need and I doubt I’d use it enough to merit the astonishing cost. That's a bit more than two cents worth of opinion - I hope you find it useful.
(Edited)
phoenixsong
1055
Nov 7, 2020
reswrightIf this knife had been forged hammered from blade to bolster with damascus steel, what would its bolster look like?
reswright
3850
Nov 7, 2020
phoenixsongthe answer may sound flip but it's 'however the maker likes'. Wanna watch the process? https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SRWootz&v=ozBIQruB4bw N.B. if you're asking how to tell a forged bolster from a cosmetic one, the latter are usually either welded or pinned to the blade stock. You can usually see a faint weld line if you look very closely. The pins are usually a bit easier to see -- hold the bolster up to the light and look for faint round halos where the bolster metal and the pinhead were burnished together.
phoenixsong
1055
Nov 8, 2020
reswrightYour explanation makes sense, but just by the pictures provided I remain clueless as ever XD
reswrightthanks for taking the time to write up that info. Super informative. How can you tell if the bolster is the same material? In the pics it looks the same? Could be I just don’t even know what a bolster is....
phoenixsong
1055
Nov 12, 2020
QualityforthemoneyThe bolster in this case is the thicker part of the metal between the blade and the tang
reswright
3850
Nov 12, 2020
QualityforthemoneyHow to do it visually: Compare these two shots:
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Notice how on the top knife, there's a color difference - the bolster is slightly yellower, and there's zero sign of banding? Also see the comparatively defined angle where the bolster joins the blade, as opposed to the sloping curve on the forged knife on the bottom? Companies are getting good at hiding the weld lines or using internal rivets that you can't see, but that sharp angle to the join is still a dead giveaway that the bolster was welded to the blade. On extremely cheap knives there'll even be a little hairline crack or seam there. The point of a chef knife is you can prepare entire meals with it as your only knife. A line cook pretty much has to. Cracks and seams are bad because of corrosion obviously but the real issue is bits of food getting into the opening long enough to begin decaying. Food poisoning is the bane of any restauranteur and cross contamination of food allergens is a biggie as well. In this respect the strength of the chef knife - its utility - becomes a weakness: it is used to prepare hundreds of meals and so the risks of cross contamination are high. So anyway, how else can I tell the bolster is a different metal? From the specs:
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Fifth bullet : stainless steel bolsters, not damascus. :) The thing to remember about forged bolsters vs welded or pinned ones -- you won't have to guess, if it's actually forged. They'll say so if it is -- that's a large selling point. Whenever any forging gets done that always finds its way into the ad copy. Indeed as long as the steel has been rolled they can call it forged steel, but that doesn’t mean the knife was forged. It will say something like 'forged from a single piece of steel'' or “forged to shape” and the ad writer absolutely positively will never forget to make it plain. Not mentioning it is like not mentioning that the car you're selling has a V-12 engine and a seven speed gearbox. Also you usually won't find a bargain price like this for a forged knife, especially not one with a bougie steel. Forging, even if it's minor and done to already rolled steel, costs money and takes time.
(Edited)
reswrightThank you so much for all the info! I really appreciate it. Legit saved me hours of scouring the web.
phoenixsong
1055
Nov 13, 2020
reswrightLmao I totally missed the bolsters point- I somehow read it as rivets *fp*
reswright
3850
Nov 13, 2020
phoenixsongBullet points are like bold type. The more there are the less they catch the eye of the reader. 3 to 5 bullet points per list, max, or your reader starts skimming. Like so. ;) There are a lot of cognitive reasons that converge on keeping the list that succinct.
reswright
3850
Nov 13, 2020
QualityforthemoneyI guess there’s one more angle on it, being fair. as much preference as I have for forged bolsters, to me it’s perhaps most important that it be a full bolster that reaches from the spine through to the edge of the heel but that aspect is purely related to use — it’s good for knife balance, and it’s better to have thicker steel right there because it can be crowned or beveled to be much easier on your forefinger when you’re using the knife for hours on end, like thanksgiving prep. It doesn’t hurt that few companies bother to create a faux full bolster. Those are more expensive to ‘fake’ if you will. The semi or demi bolster is easier and the neck only bolsters easiest to pull off with welded bolsters. But the point is that the full bolster is not only a good sign, if you find a knife you like with one... you’re probably in good hands one way or the other.
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