Showing 1 of 21 conversations about:
MaxwellDemonic
816
Aug 19, 2018
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Aluminum scales, no info on the steel type/s, assisted... hard pass.
Aug 19, 2018
Kavik
4477
Aug 19, 2018
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Yup, I haven't looked back once after moving from assisted openers to flippers with good detents
And who buys knives without knowing the steel type??
Aug 19, 2018
Morrowind542
110
Aug 19, 2018
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All Kershaw Damascus is Alabama Damascus. They use several different steels in the Damascus, of course, but I believe the edge is 5160.
Aug 19, 2018
Kavik
4477
Aug 19, 2018
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None of these pictures look as though there's a core steel between a sandwich of Damascus, all the stuff on their site (and in these pics) appear to just be solid billits of pattern welded steel
Aug 19, 2018
Morrowind542
110
Aug 20, 2018
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That is correct; it's entirely Damascus steel, unlike many of the VG10 knives that are for sale here that just have the Damascus around a VG10 core*.
However, I would think that they would make/machine the Damascus in such a way that the hard steel layers are at the edge. I could be wrong about that, and if I am please correct me, but if that's not the case it defeats the whole point of adding the good steel to begin with. It's also worth noting that even very high end Damascus makers like Damasteel also use 1 good steel with other lesser steels.
*I'm sure you know that already, but I added it for the people reading that don't.
Aug 20, 2018
MaxwellDemonic
816
Aug 20, 2018
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That's fair. Part of me is always suspicious of anything Kershaw makes, the other part is annoyed that after years, MD still doesn't get important details about their knives in the descriptions.
Aug 20, 2018
Kavik
4477
Aug 20, 2018
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I don't believe there's any way that they could ever make a pattern welded steel ("damascus") where they could guarantee what layer will end up at the edge... And if they could, it would end up being a very boring, straight pattern. This one, if you look at the product pictures, you'll see multiple layers of steel reaching the edge.
I wouldn't necessarily say it has to be "lesser steels" per se, a damascus could be made with multiple blade quality steels, they just have to be steels that react differently to chemical etching if you want to highlight the contrasts.
I don't remember what their site said they use for the different layers, and it's way past my bedtime, too tired to go looking right now. But on something like this I suppose I would judge it by the properties of the lowest quality steel for a first look. Then compare the different steels to guesstimate how they will wear in comparison to each other, to try to determine if one has significantly lower wear resistance leading to "dead spots" as the knife gets dull or if one is significantly softer, leading to a wavy edge after many sharpenings as one steel abrades faster.
Seems like a lot of work 🤔 So, realistically I'd say buy it and hope for the best if you really like the looks of it and are cool with the price...but for me i would prefer sticking with damascus cladding over a known core unless it's something that came already highly recommended by people who know more about the individual steel properties than I do
Aug 20, 2018
Kavik
4477
Aug 20, 2018
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Update- So, Alabama damascus lists the following for their steel types: Material = (4) layers 5160, (3) layers 203E, (3) layers 52100, (3) layers 15N20 folded 5 times for 416 layer damascus
Below is a chart from zknives comparing 3 of the 4. They had no listing for 203E
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And their description of each -
15N20(Bohler-Uddeholm) - Bandsaw steel by design. Very tough, similar to AISI L6 tool steel, except for the missing Chrome. 15N20 is used either as a blade material on its own, or mixed with other steel in pattern welded damascus. E.g. 15N20/AISI 1095 steel or 15N20/AISI 1084 steel are quite popular. Nickel in 15N20 provided good contrast. Easy to sharpen, takes fine edge, but not so much in the edge holding department, toughness is its main benefit. Although, western custom knife makers use it in kitchen knives at higher hardness. Also used to make swords.
5160(AISI) - Knife Steel FAQ - A steel popular with forgers, it is popular now for a variety of knife styles, but usually bigger blades that need more toughness. It is essentially a simple spring steel with chromium added for hardenability. It has good wear resistance, but is known especially for its outstanding toughness. This steel performs well over a wide range of hardnesses, showing great toughness when hardened in the low 50s Rc for swords, and hardened up near the 60s for knives needing more edge holding.
52100(AISI) - Knife Steel FAQ - Formerly a ball-bearing steel, and as such previously only used by forgers, it's available in bar stock now. It is similar to 5160 (though it has around 1% carbon vs. 5160 ~.60%), but holds an edge better. It is less tough than 5160. It is used often for hunting knives and other knives where the user is willing to trade off a little of 5160's toughness for better wear resistance. However, with the continued improvement of 52100 heat treat, this steel is starting to show up in larger knives and showing excellent toughness. A modified 52100 under the SR-101 name is being used by Jerry Busse in his Swamp Rat knives. German equivalent 1.3505 is discontinued.
All 3 being blade steels of some sort, but each with different properties of toughness/edge retention based on heat treatment.
To really see how they would perform when combined we would first need to know Kershaw's heat treat process, then find the manufacturers data sheet for each of the steels to see how that process would work on each one
The time it took to dig up what I have so far, plus all the time it would take to research the heat treat would put the cost of my time way above the value of the knife lol Which brings us back to simply this:
If your gut tells you you like the looks enough to take a chance on it, go for it and hope for the best.
It comes from a well known brand, whose name is ultimately on the line if the steel supplier they chose sucked... I'm sure they did their research before making the choice. It may not be top of the line, but it's probably not garbage either, and in real world settings all this speculation on minor differences probably will never be noticed. Much different from some sketchy no name pattern welded blade of unknown origin off eBay or something lol
Aug 20, 2018
MaxwellDemonic
816
Aug 21, 2018
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You are a treasure for tracking all this down xD, Kudos!
Aug 21, 2018
Kavik
4477
Aug 21, 2018
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Aug 21, 2018
bigfoot626
62
Oct 8, 2018
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Appreciate the hard work
Oct 8, 2018
Kavik
4477
Oct 8, 2018
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I appreciate that you appreciate it Lol
Oct 8, 2018
Cdoyle
284
Dec 8, 2018
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Or worse yet wrong information like specs on the copper natrix for example
Dec 8, 2018
Cracktower
102
Dec 8, 2018
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Besides knife snobs? Pretty much everyone.
Dec 8, 2018
Cracktower
102
Dec 8, 2018
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Sorry, I don't have the time to read your novel but is this a good deal. I own 4 Kershaws and tbh I don't get the hype. One of my blades are super hard to deploy( I forgot the model). The best deployment I have is the Ken Onion wrinkle, I love the smooth action of that knife.
Dec 8, 2018
14themoney
1027
Dec 8, 2018
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Good call!
Dec 8, 2018
Kavik
4477
Dec 8, 2018
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So, being informed on what you're buying is now snobbery? Umm, no. I have no problem buying lower or mid grade steels, but it's a key factor in determining how much I'm willing to pay for it. It's a major spec that should be listed for any knife, if it didn't matter why do you think most stamp the steel type right onto the blade somewhere? If you're going to take the time to comment twice, then please take the time to read first. See my last couple paragraphs in "the novel", or in the post before it...in the end of both I specifically said it will probably perform fine, so I'm not even sure what we're debating here?
(Edited)
Dec 8, 2018
Cracktower
102
Dec 8, 2018
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Wasn't debating, asking a question. Knife snob wasn't a jab but feel free to take it any way you want to.
Dec 8, 2018
Kavik
4477
Dec 8, 2018
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Lol i didn't see a single question in your second post, and your first one was rhetorical, but okay. I assumed, since you referenced my post, then said "but" and gave an opinion, that you were taking some different stand on....something. Couldn't quite decipher what it was supposed to be though *shrug*
(Edited)
Dec 8, 2018
Cracktower
102
Dec 8, 2018
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Sorry, I don't have the time to read your novel but is this a good deal. Sorry that I missed the question mark. So..... Sorry, I don't have the time to read your novel but is this a good deal? Better?
(Edited)
Dec 8, 2018
Kavik
4477
Dec 9, 2018
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My mistake. I misread that, thought you said but this is a good deal...this is, not is this..hence the confusion, my apologies. I haven't done any recent price comparisons, you'll have to check Google
Dec 9, 2018
jjl1911
92
Jan 26, 2019
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Wow. Thanks for the wealth of new info man! Much appreciated.
Jan 26, 2019
KT83
15
Jul 14, 2019
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HI THERE! "guesstimate",.. -IS THAT REALLY "A PHRASE", OR "AN INVENTION" OF YOURS.?. IN ANY CASE, GOOD ONE😄. KT✌🇸🇪
Jul 14, 2019
Kavik
4477
Jul 14, 2019
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Lol no, not mine, I'm sure I've heard it other places before. But glad you like it
Jul 14, 2019
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