La Figaro 339 Tube Headphone Amplifier Discussions | Drop

Aug 10, 2019

How does the sound of this compare to that of the 336se? I am using Sennheiser 6XX and 598's.

Xmetaldavex

110

Sep 15, 2019

BuckabooLooks like it's basically 2 of them in one chassis

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Sep 15, 2019

XmetaldavexYes it's a dual monaural setup but it still doesn't answer my question.

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Sep 15, 2019

BuckabooI have both amps as well as the hd6xx. While it looks like the la figaro is two dark voices strapped together and they do have similar dna, to me they have a different sound signature and characteristics. The dark voice is more warm, more bass and more rolled off treble in the sound sig. the la figaro has a bass roll off to my ears, so while neither are for bass heads, the la figaro is even less so. It has more detail in the treble and is more holographic/airy than the dark voice. To me though the bass roll off is pretty distracting for certain types of music, while the dark voice sound sig fits more types of music. I actually like using the hd6xx with the la figaro and the hd600 with the dark voice. While the hd6xx also sounds nice with the dark voice, I don’t really like the hd600 with the la figaro because they both have more emphasis on upper mids/treble and it’s a little too unbalanced for my ears. The hd600 treble brings out the high end with the dark voice that’s missing with the hd6xx. And the la figaro brings out the treble in the hd6xx that’s more laid back with the dark voice.

Sep 16, 2019

Davestef Would you like French, or Italian dressing with that Audio word salad, sir? Sorry, don’t mean to poke fun at you alone—that sort vocabulary has permeated this sport for years—but you have to admit, someone else making a $600 purchase decision based on a collection nonsense, low or no-meaning descriptors is pretty fucking hysterical! Oh—almost forgot, “Fresh ground pepper?”

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Sep 16, 2019

BuckabooEvery time a La Figaro is released they may have slightly different internals (idk but mine stock has different components than other versions you can find online). In My experience, the amp is essentially two Darkvoices, but instead of a Dual Triode 6SN7, it uses two Pentode 6SJ7 (or equivalent), and each 6AS7/6080 uses both Triodes to amplify the coming signal from each respective Pentode. Essentially it's a more powerful Darkvoice with Pentode Preamps and a potentiometer for each side. Looking inside the amp, component wise, compared to the Darkvoice, it has better stuff overall, better Output caps, better resistors to an extent, and the heaters have been worked correctly to be nearer to the 6.3V by using resistors rather than being at like, a 7V or 7.1V for the Darkvoice in the US (This is because the Primary transformer winding is set for 110V, not 120V as is common in the US, causing a higher voltage on the Secondary. This usually causes humming in the Darkvoice, but not so for the La Figaro, possibly due to the resistors on the heaters dropping the voltage down (I heard the La Figaro uses 115V Primaries rather than 110V which may also help. Overall, comparing the two stock, which is hard because my Darkvoice is modded AF and the La Figaro has been converted to use 6J5 Triodes rather than 6SJ7 Pentodes (Which is pretty easy and makes the amp sound warmer and "more stable" in a sense, but increases heat since Triodes are much more inefficient than Pentodes energy wise I guess, but better noise and distortion from triodes. Still comparing both stock, the La Figaro is basically a Darkvoice with added features and less detriments with more power, with a slightly neutral sound from the Pentodes rather than warm like Triodes. Again I call it like I hear it, so it may be different in your case, especially if each amp is slightly different from each production cycle like I've read/seen. Honestly I'm actually converting my La Figaro into essentially a Dual Mono Crack (Bu using two Speedball Boards and a C4S load board) and changing the Pentode to Triode, but with school and all, it may take a while, although I might try for this weekend since I have all the parts already. Who knows I might also add a modded Stereomour II Shunt Regulator if it fits, with different resistances to suit what the La Figaro's tubes do obviously. TL:DR La Figaro = 2x Darkvoice + Basic Design Improvements and Considerations

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DeliriumTrigger

Sep 18, 2019

RayFSounded like a perfectly reasonable and helpful comment to me.

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Sep 18, 2019

DeliriumTrigger That's the problem I was highlighting--people buying it. You sound like you're buying it. You buying it bro? (I mean the BS, not the product)

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DeliriumTrigger

Sep 18, 2019

RayFNo, but still doesn't make your reply to that guys comment make sense

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Sep 18, 2019

DeliriumTrigger I'm saying you can't describe the color Red to a blind person--you can try, but you have now way of knowing if what you're sending has anything to do with what they're receiving. For instance this sentence from above: "It has more detail in the treble and is more holographic/airy than the dark voice" doesn't mean anything specific (actually, doesn't mean anything at all). There's no way to determine if what he's trying to say is what anyone else is really hearing. We can pretend we get it, but we don't. Without defined/accepted meanings (aka: common language) it's just Audiophile baby-talk.

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Sep 18, 2019

RayFAudiophile Le Stuff is subjective, with a hint of red pepper. I have tube rolled both of them a fair amount. They both use 6AS7 tubes, but the dv uses a 6SN7 while the LF uses 6SJ7. So Can’t really compare them with the same tubes. And my attempt at describing sounds before was with the tube combo that I settled on (thought sounded best) for each. Which is not using the same model/brand 6AS7 tube in both amps. I will say that my LF has some intermittent faint buzzing in the right channel. Not sure if anyone else has the same problem.

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Sep 18, 2019

RayFHave you ever watched a headphone review on YouTube? No we don’t know exactly what they’re talking about. But it’s fun to listen to/talk about. And if you have a somewhat trained ear then you at least have an idea. me and my buddy did A/B testing with both of these amps and both the hd6xx/hd600 and also with the tube rolling too. And we could hear/understand what the other person was talking in terms of describing what they were hearing.

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Sep 18, 2019

DavestefSame and it seemed to be due to the power tubes I was using (Dual GEC 6AS7), one of the tubes seemed to make some distortion sounds, specifically the tube, but it later went away, but it happens again if I take them out and put them back in, so maybe contact issue, although for some reason it stopped once I rewired the La Figaro to run 6J5 Triodes (also rewired it for 6SN7 but then went back on it since it was kinda pointless since I wasn't going to make the amp balanced since I prefer the SET sound, and really good 6J5 pairs and equivalents are ALOT cheaper than a pair of pretty good 6SN7s) probably going to use an adapter to run 7193 tubes now since i heard those are really good compared to 6J5s. Point is that yeah I had the same issue as you but for some reason rewiring the amp made it go away, so either the 6SJ7 Pentodes somehow make the signal more sensitive to how well the contacts are made compared to 6J5 Triodes, or maybe the Sockets themselves don't clamp on well to the tubes, because I mean, idk after that, everything else seems fine electrically speaking, maybe you can open it up and see if it's a bad solder or maybe one of the socket pins are a bit too open in your case? Actually thinking about it now, I re soldered everything in there to make space for a few other mods, so maybe I just made better contacts due to it, since ngl, a lot of the solders seem to be surface contact, and not a mechanical solder, meaning that if you remove the solder, it isn't making the best mechanical contact. I mean they are well soldered though, but who knows, maybe during shipment one of the joints came a bit loose and without a proper mechanical contact, maybe every time you put a tube in it might make that contact worse? Idk, tbh I haven't thought about it much since last time I had it was like a month ago, before I did the rewire. I mean hey, if you're good at tinkering and soldering it might be a good idea to open up the amp and check yourself, just make sure it isn't the tube though, like switch the tubes around and see if the buzzing moves too, if it doesn't then it's something on the inside of the amp. If you don't have experience opening up amps though, I recommend either you practice with something simple or read up and watch lots of videos, don't want you getting shocked by a capacitor, although the capacitors in both the Darkvoice and the La Figaro tend to drain down to about 1 to 10 Volts (Not enough to shock you or even feel it in most cases) after they're shut down and the tubes were functioning. Also if you're going to practice with one of the amps after reading up and making sure you take safety precautions (hypothetically), my recommendation is to start with the La Figaro, trust me, it's the more expensive of the two, but it's bigger, giving you more room to work with and less of a chance for error due to a botched solder, rather than the Darkvoice which has less space albeit becomes a lot better after component upgrades/mods proportional to the La Figaro after basic component upgrades/mods. Speaking of which, does your Darkvoice also have tube noise (Higher than Optimal Range Heater Voltage) or did you do the "Hum-Fitz" mod on it/the tubes you're using don't make noise? Either that or are you using the 220 V versions, since those don't have that Heater issue I think?

Sep 18, 2019

Davestef“Watched” a headphone review? Sure. Ever listened to a great Painting?

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Sep 18, 2019

DavestefLooks like you’re $earching for Nirvana! Good luck!

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Sep 18, 2019

RayFYou could watch a painting review. Anyway, what do you recommend we do instead?

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Sep 18, 2019

BuckabooI’ll add that I feel like the LF fits better with lighter music like classical/jazz/acoustic. They really shine through the LF. The DV is a little better all around for all types of music. But the tubes really do make a difference here. And the tube journey really never ends. Im using tungsol 6AS7/6SN7 in the DV and GE 6AS7 and sylvania 6SJ7 in the LF. the tungsol’s took the DV from sounding good to sounding really sweet, especially in the male vocal range. And the combo in the LF was the most “airy”/“holographic” of the bunch of tubes I tried.

Sep 18, 2019

Schizoidmy DV doesn’t have noise. I have the 120v unmodded. But the tungsol 6sn7 I have does cause a constant low hum, but it doesn’t really bother me as much. Plus the improvement in sound out weighs the noise it causes. The LF noise is more annoying because it’s a crackle in the right ear that comes and goes every so many seconds. It kind of cuts through the music. Where as the DV noise is low and constant and kind of blends in or gets tuned out. Also the LF doesn’t get louder or quieter with the volume. I’ve tried all the tubes I have. I’ve swapped tubes from L and R channel. Im not a super tinkerer, but I’ve soldered in new caps in speaker crossovers and my little dot 1+. Never rewired anything or built an amp from scratch (I do have a bottlehead crack kit I want to build this winter). I did open it up to look for bad connections and I didn’t see anything obvious. It did have some styrofoam pieces floating around in it from shipping. I tried to dust/blow out what I could and didn’t see any more pieces. and I also tried cleaning the pins on my tubes. And the crackle is still there and still the same.

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DeliriumTrigger

Sep 18, 2019

RayFAre u for real? I understood everything he said about the amp, no he can't tell me everything about it, but I understand what he means, and I can stack that against my personal tastes and experiences. A picture may be worth a 1000 words, but it doesn't mean a picture can't be described with words.

Sep 19, 2019

Davestef Ideally, you would listen to the equipment before buying and make up your own mind. Buying online, without auditioning first, is a tough way to go.

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Sep 19, 2019

DavestefWell the Darkvoice Hum is normal for 120V since the Transformer is 110V Primary and not 120V, as long as it doesn't bother you too much I guess it's fine although I'd recommend a simple mod like the "Hum-Fitz" since that resolves the audio issue albeit doesn't directly tackle the heater voltage issue, in my case I swapped out the Transformer from one made by the same company except for 120V. On the other hand, the The La Figaro's issue seems to be Tube independent and possibly some sort of internal soldering/component issue from what you told me, since you checked by swapping the tubes around. I recommend though that since you don't have too much experience with building amps that you start off with the Crack kit you have, since that'll give you a basic idea of how the La Figaro/Darkvoice function as well as better skills soldering wise. The Crack is most analogous to the Darkvoice except Crack can also take Speedball (Not an issue with the Circuit since I can confirm it can take it as well if you remove the grid stoppers on pins 1 and 4 for the Darkvoice Pre Amp Tube Section, more of a size issue since the Darkvoice doesn't have a large enough case to fit the Transistor Heat Sinks comfortably, but they could fit if you try hard enough though, the C4S board fits perfectly though) although I recommend working with the La Figaro next and leave the Darkvoice last due to size issues/having the least worrying issue. Also Thinking about it a bit, I really can't think of anything other than a bad solder that could cause that crackling, maybe a bad coupling capacitor(s) on the right side, but usually it'd be a hum not a crackle, I was also thinking of a bad resistor on the Pre-Amp section of the Right side since if one of those are bad maybe it's varying resistance for some reason but that's unfounded speculation, so idk. So to conclude, Practice with the Crack before tackling the La Figaro, and make sure to take it slow and have everything on hand and properly clarified (Some people might have Plumbing Solder and not Electrical Solder for instance, and that will essentially mess your amp up bad, so make sure everything you use is designed for electrical work). I didn't have a Crack so I started with the Darkvoice and while it turned out alright in the end, It took me a while to figure things out especially without any prior knowledge on tube amps, basically had to rebuild the amp from scratch 8 times. So yeah take it slow and be informed when you're making your Crack.

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Sep 19, 2019

RayFIdeally yea, but you can’t really try out these products. Unless you know a guy. i guess that’s what you read about a lot of people saying they bought this headphone or that amp and it wasn’t what they thought it would be, so they end up selling it for something else. I bought a pair of beyerdynamic 600ohm 990s which are known for their “V” sound signature. Couldn’t really audition it anywhere, read a bunch of reviews/watched YouTube reviews etc. ended up not liking it. But I did get what the reviews were saying, even though I’ve never heard “V” shaped headphones. So it gave me an idea of what I was in for. It only turns out that it’s not for me.

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Sep 19, 2019

DeliriumTriggerYes, I’m for real—assuming we share a common definition of “for real”.

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Sep 19, 2019

SchizoidThanks for all your advice. I’ll see if I can record the sound. I checked out the headfi forums and only one other person noted a similar symptom. They said they just dusted out the insides and the crackle went away 🤷🏻‍♂️

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Sep 19, 2019

Davestef I suspect there are closets full of Chinese mid-fi components all over the (1st) world for just the reason you state—for most consumers that entire category is impossible to audition before buying. This leaves you and others at the mercy of vague terms and rambling Zeos videos. I feel for you—and his cat ;- )

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Sep 19, 2019

RayFhow do you do it?

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Sep 19, 2019

Davestef I limit my exposure to the madness—and most importantly, I quit when I’m ahead! I have no desire to accumulate a huge collections of duplicate components, I have no interest in throwing more $$$ at marginal SQ gains—I have try to enjoy what I have, and not chase after what I don’t. I’m not opposed to occasional upgrades, but I think they should be meaningful upgrades, not minor tweaks with immeasurable benefits.

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Xmetaldavex

110

Sep 19, 2019

RayFI don't understand why you're giving us a hard time talking about audio products when you've posted enough times here to have 11000 thumbs up points. If you're not interested in marginal improvements or stuff you can't listen to before you buy, why are you here?

Sep 19, 2019

Xmetaldavex Not giving anyone a hard time, just making comments/expressing opinions. But I’m only here because your mom asked me to keep an eye on you— she’s afraid you’re becoming radicalized.

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Xmetaldavex

110

Sep 19, 2019

RayFMakes sense.

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Sep 21, 2019

Oh also I finally finished the mod for the La Figaro (Enough for it to work), altho I'll probably add a tweaked Stereomour II Shunt Regulator Board in that middle section if testing works out tomorrow, might buy it for next week if my school schedule is light. Oh also the Power Supply resistors look weird, that's because of how the case has it's holes oriented, not to worry though since both sides are electrically identical resistance wise, gonna plug it in tomorrow to see if the Speedball Boards blow up or not, and if they work and sound good I'll probably post more pictures as well as a component guide / build guide, sadly I didn't take pictures of the process of building it but hopefully post-build pictures (if the amp even works) may help visualize where the connections should go.

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Sep 21, 2019

SchizoidOk so it works, prolly gonna start preparations for a Stereomour Shunt Board and buy some adapters to use 7193 tubes. I'll post more if the Stereomour mod works and maybe write up a guide after that.

Sep 24, 2019

DavestefThank you. You just saved me $600.

Sep 24, 2019

RayFto each their own. I understand where you are coming from. But no need to throw shade at those who like to spend all their money on audio gear (especially on massdrop where it seems like a lot of people indulge themselves in the audiophile journey). There are worse things you could blow money on.

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Sep 24, 2019

Buckaboowhats your reasoning?

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Sep 24, 2019

DavestefThat's true. Unfortunately they don't sell them on MD ;- )

Oct 5, 2019

BuckabooWhat’s your reasoning/what’d you end up deciding on getting?

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Oct 12, 2019

DavestefI already own the dark voice but I think I will just stick with that since I enjoy the warmer sound.

Cmnascimento

Jun 29, 2020

BuckabooI own Darkvoice with Chatham 6as7g and RCA 6sn7gt vt231 gray glass and love the sound I hear on my T1 G1. I was thinking about updating my amplifier, but the more I read the impression I have is that the bowels of the amplifier will not significantly improve the sound. That what really matters in the tube amplifier is the tubes that are used, isn't it ?. In my case, which uses only high impedance headphones, I can't see any real reasons to upgrade my Darkvoice to Lf339 or Cracker, for example. I believe that the advantage I would have would be greater power and the possibility of using low impedance headphones. I am not right?