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HassanS
3183
Operations
Nov 25, 2014
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Brightman
13
Nov 25, 2014
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HassanSThanks for the update, this whole thing has been fairly crazy.
For those of you that haven't used Kickstarter before, this is what that's like except only a fraction of the crazy. Imagine manufacturing delays adding up to the product being a year late.
For those of you that haven't used Kickstarter before, this is what that's like except only a fraction of the crazy. Imagine manufacturing delays adding up to the product being a year late.
GonzoTGreat
756
Nov 25, 2014
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HassanSFirst of all, thanks for the update. Your attention to this is appreciated. I want to make sure that I'm "reading" you correctly:
1. We'll be getting concrete info from you by this Thursday (Thanksgiving day for us in the US). 2. At that point, you'll know what's going on, but the pens may or may not be ready for reshipment by then. 3. If your update is, "The pens came in!" Then they should be shipped out within a day or two of your receiving them (the day AFTER Thanksgiving). 4. If your update is, "Here's what's going on," which seems to be more likely, then the pens should be received by your warehouse by .... when? I'm getting the sense that they will be reshipped sometime next week. For those of us who might live close to the warehouse, that means we'll probably get them .... the week December 8th? If I assume a worst case scenario, I have a feeling it will be delivered by December 12th or 13th. 5. In the meantime, you're negotiating with the "responsible party" that made the logistical error for a "freebie". Unless that freebie is "a second Lamy 2000 Fountain Pen" how about a partial refund of the cost? As I'm assuming that the mistake was not with Massdrop, this would not cost Massdrop anything and a 10-20% (or more?) discount is about $10.50 - $21.00. Logistically, wouldn't it be simpler to refund that much to us rather than throw in a "freebie" of some sort? 6. Any response to @Austin_Malone's questions?
[UPDATED 11/27: Whining ramble about the "freebie" was removed.]
Again, I have no doubt that Massdrop is doing everything they can to get this straightened out. I believe this partial refund should come from the responsible party.
Once again, a rather long winded post from me. I'm sure I'll edit this down a bit tomorrow, but I wanted to share my understanding and idea with Massdrop and my fellow participants as soon as possible.
I hope this helps and ...
Cheers to all.
1. We'll be getting concrete info from you by this Thursday (Thanksgiving day for us in the US). 2. At that point, you'll know what's going on, but the pens may or may not be ready for reshipment by then. 3. If your update is, "The pens came in!" Then they should be shipped out within a day or two of your receiving them (the day AFTER Thanksgiving). 4. If your update is, "Here's what's going on," which seems to be more likely, then the pens should be received by your warehouse by .... when? I'm getting the sense that they will be reshipped sometime next week. For those of us who might live close to the warehouse, that means we'll probably get them .... the week December 8th? If I assume a worst case scenario, I have a feeling it will be delivered by December 12th or 13th. 5. In the meantime, you're negotiating with the "responsible party" that made the logistical error for a "freebie". Unless that freebie is "a second Lamy 2000 Fountain Pen" how about a partial refund of the cost? As I'm assuming that the mistake was not with Massdrop, this would not cost Massdrop anything and a 10-20% (or more?) discount is about $10.50 - $21.00. Logistically, wouldn't it be simpler to refund that much to us rather than throw in a "freebie" of some sort? 6. Any response to @Austin_Malone's questions?
[UPDATED 11/27: Whining ramble about the "freebie" was removed.]
Again, I have no doubt that Massdrop is doing everything they can to get this straightened out. I believe this partial refund should come from the responsible party.
Once again, a rather long winded post from me. I'm sure I'll edit this down a bit tomorrow, but I wanted to share my understanding and idea with Massdrop and my fellow participants as soon as possible.
I hope this helps and ...
Cheers to all.
tcmtcm
8
Nov 25, 2014
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GonzoTGreatI think you might be missing the way massdrops work on kind of a fundamental level...
GonzoTGreat
756
Nov 25, 2014
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tcmtcmOkay. I'm taking this as a constructive comment, so here's how I see how stuff is supposed to work. Please correct my inaccuracies as you see them:
Overall: Massdrop is a for-profit company that aims to, essentially, facilitate "group buys".
1. In a limited number of categories, of which "writing" is one, registered members suggest and vote on products they would be interested in purchasing. 2. Once a poll reaches a given threshold of votes, Massdrop reaches out to vendors represented in that poll with the effort to secure a "bulk discount" on the most popular selection. If that can't be done, Massdrop goes down the list doing the same. 3. Once an agreement has been made with a vendor, Massdrop starts the "drop". Massdrop posts the prices for the item based on what it was able to negotiate with the vendor. As more people buy or commit to buy the product, the price of the product (to the member) is reduced by a specific, clearly announced amount. - Each drop has a detailed description of what is included and why it's really cool to have the item. This is done in narrative and list form. - Each drop has a price attached to the number of people purchasing and/or committing to purchase the item. - Each drop has an estimated (re-)ship date.* [* = the (re-) is my addition. Also, estimated time for reshipment is given as a date, not a date range.] 4. At the end of a given amount of time, usually about 7 days, the opportunity (to the member) to be part of that particular bulk purchase of the item ends. 5. If the drop was successful, then Massdrop arranges with the vendor to have the item shipped to their (Massdrop's) warehouse. At that point, Massdrop reships the item to the customers who were part of the bulk purchase. 6. The items are delivered to the customer. 7. Everyone is happy.
This is my understanding of what Massdrop is and how it's supposed to work.
In my previous post, I was not assigning any blame to Massdrop. Rather, my post (as others I have made previously) was an attempt to figure out an accurate date range during which the item may be shipped, offer a suggestion as to the "freebie" that Massdrop is currently trying to negotiate with the vendor and ask if @Austin_Malone's posed questions could be answered more specifically.
Except in not giving an estimated reshipment date *range*, rather than a specific date, I do not believe Massdrop is responsible for this delay. And, except for the first few posts, @HassanS has been very candid about the situation with the various delays.
Based on his previous posts, I am estimating that the item may be reshipped sometime between this Friday and next. If all of the pens go out this Friday, then I would expect to receive mine (I live in CONUS) early in the first week of December.
Here's the worst case scenario, as I see it: If the shipment doesn't arrive at Massdrop's warehouse until sometime during the week after Thanksgiving (week of December 2nd) and not all of the pens are reshipped on the first full business day at the warehouse, then it's possible that I will receive my pen during the week of December 8th. The last day of that week in which USPS is delivered is Saturday, December 13th.
[Update on 11/27 - edited to reduce unnecessary whine about additional discount being the "freebie".]
For its part, Massdrop is providing us with regular, honest updates with information that is as clear and complete as possible given the info that they have. I do not hold Massdrop responsible for this delay.
Again, how is my understanding of the way Massdrop works fundamentally flawed? I ask this honestly. If I'm missing something, I want to know. If I've made a mistake in offering my suggestions or voicing my concerns, I want to know. I make my (excessively long) posts to offer answers, where I can, to questions posed by other that have been unanswered and to offer constructive feedback to the community. If I'm getting this entirely wrong, please let me know.
Thanks, in advance, for your constructive suggestions.
Cheers to all.
Overall: Massdrop is a for-profit company that aims to, essentially, facilitate "group buys".
1. In a limited number of categories, of which "writing" is one, registered members suggest and vote on products they would be interested in purchasing. 2. Once a poll reaches a given threshold of votes, Massdrop reaches out to vendors represented in that poll with the effort to secure a "bulk discount" on the most popular selection. If that can't be done, Massdrop goes down the list doing the same. 3. Once an agreement has been made with a vendor, Massdrop starts the "drop". Massdrop posts the prices for the item based on what it was able to negotiate with the vendor. As more people buy or commit to buy the product, the price of the product (to the member) is reduced by a specific, clearly announced amount. - Each drop has a detailed description of what is included and why it's really cool to have the item. This is done in narrative and list form. - Each drop has a price attached to the number of people purchasing and/or committing to purchase the item. - Each drop has an estimated (re-)ship date.* [* = the (re-) is my addition. Also, estimated time for reshipment is given as a date, not a date range.] 4. At the end of a given amount of time, usually about 7 days, the opportunity (to the member) to be part of that particular bulk purchase of the item ends. 5. If the drop was successful, then Massdrop arranges with the vendor to have the item shipped to their (Massdrop's) warehouse. At that point, Massdrop reships the item to the customers who were part of the bulk purchase. 6. The items are delivered to the customer. 7. Everyone is happy.
This is my understanding of what Massdrop is and how it's supposed to work.
In my previous post, I was not assigning any blame to Massdrop. Rather, my post (as others I have made previously) was an attempt to figure out an accurate date range during which the item may be shipped, offer a suggestion as to the "freebie" that Massdrop is currently trying to negotiate with the vendor and ask if @Austin_Malone's posed questions could be answered more specifically.
Except in not giving an estimated reshipment date *range*, rather than a specific date, I do not believe Massdrop is responsible for this delay. And, except for the first few posts, @HassanS has been very candid about the situation with the various delays.
Based on his previous posts, I am estimating that the item may be reshipped sometime between this Friday and next. If all of the pens go out this Friday, then I would expect to receive mine (I live in CONUS) early in the first week of December.
Here's the worst case scenario, as I see it: If the shipment doesn't arrive at Massdrop's warehouse until sometime during the week after Thanksgiving (week of December 2nd) and not all of the pens are reshipped on the first full business day at the warehouse, then it's possible that I will receive my pen during the week of December 8th. The last day of that week in which USPS is delivered is Saturday, December 13th.
[Update on 11/27 - edited to reduce unnecessary whine about additional discount being the "freebie".]
For its part, Massdrop is providing us with regular, honest updates with information that is as clear and complete as possible given the info that they have. I do not hold Massdrop responsible for this delay.
Again, how is my understanding of the way Massdrop works fundamentally flawed? I ask this honestly. If I'm missing something, I want to know. If I've made a mistake in offering my suggestions or voicing my concerns, I want to know. I make my (excessively long) posts to offer answers, where I can, to questions posed by other that have been unanswered and to offer constructive feedback to the community. If I'm getting this entirely wrong, please let me know.
Thanks, in advance, for your constructive suggestions.
Cheers to all.
robert.harris
147
Nov 25, 2014
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GonzoTGreatExcellent summary and post @GonzoTGreat. You've mostly summed up my feelings - particularly in regards to how Massdrop works, and where to assign blame. The only slight disagreement is that I suspect any physical freebie is likely to be of significant higher value than any additional cash discount (I personally doubt that they'd pony up more than $10 cash, if that - let's face it the price on this pen was already pretty damn good).
Now, as you quite rightly point out any physical freebie is going to be absolutely subjective in its desirability and therein lies the rub. But would I prefer something with a notional value of $30 (MSRP. Say $20 street) versus $5.00-$10.00 cash. Personally I'd take the risk of the former. (But I can quite understand your viewpoint if you want the latter ...)
TL;DR - Totally agree, but I'm too cynical to believe that your call for a cash refund has ANY chance of succeeding, so let's push for something decent that does have a chance!
Now, as you quite rightly point out any physical freebie is going to be absolutely subjective in its desirability and therein lies the rub. But would I prefer something with a notional value of $30 (MSRP. Say $20 street) versus $5.00-$10.00 cash. Personally I'd take the risk of the former. (But I can quite understand your viewpoint if you want the latter ...)
TL;DR - Totally agree, but I'm too cynical to believe that your call for a cash refund has ANY chance of succeeding, so let's push for something decent that does have a chance!
GonzoTGreat
756
Nov 26, 2014
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robert.harrisAll good points, @robert.harris - thanks for the perspective. As I've said before, I'm sticking with the drop. I suggested the $$ as recompense because it seemed the least complicated and would likely satisfy most. I'm game for something else, agree that the retail/street value of said freebie would be greater than an additional $$ discount and agree that an additional discount would be unlikely, anyway.
I'm interested to see how all of this plays out. I hope we and Massdrop are able to come back to this vendor having gotten a fair shake in the end.
Cheers to all.
I'm interested to see how all of this plays out. I hope we and Massdrop are able to come back to this vendor having gotten a fair shake in the end.
Cheers to all.
tcmtcm
8
Nov 26, 2014
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GonzoTGreatthis really straightforward. ship times are estimates due to the nature of massdrop and as such you get nothing if it doesnt come on the estimate, so your dostoevsky length whining about them giving you free stuff is quite the looking of the gift horse in the mouth.
if you want guaranteed shipping dates and subsequently to be compensated in that case, cancel your order and go to Amazon.
if you want guaranteed shipping dates and subsequently to be compensated in that case, cancel your order and go to Amazon.
GonzoTGreat
756
Nov 27, 2014
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tcmtcmShort version: Thanks for your response. Noted. Previous offending passages have been edited.
Long version:
Thank you for your feedback.
I agree that the dates are estimates. I wish they were given as a date range.
The freebie was brought into the conversation by @HassanS. I was earnestly offering a suggestion as to what form the lagniappe could take - something that everyone would appreciate. However, others (@robert.harris, @Brightman) have also offered great ideas.
For me, it's a learning experience. Having read discussions of other drops, I now know that delivery dates can vary widely. I also know that Massdrop is committed to making sure participants get the product in the end.
I apologize if my two previous posts seemed whining - certainly not my intention. In retrospect, I can see how certain paragraphs could be taken as such and have made what I hope are appropriate edits. My musings on possible reship dates were meant to be read without inflection. And certainly without whine.
On the contrary, I'm quite impressed with the way Massdrop and @HassanS is going to bat on our behalf.
And yes, I tend to ramble. I'm working on that.
Long version:
Thank you for your feedback.
I agree that the dates are estimates. I wish they were given as a date range.
The freebie was brought into the conversation by @HassanS. I was earnestly offering a suggestion as to what form the lagniappe could take - something that everyone would appreciate. However, others (@robert.harris, @Brightman) have also offered great ideas.
For me, it's a learning experience. Having read discussions of other drops, I now know that delivery dates can vary widely. I also know that Massdrop is committed to making sure participants get the product in the end.
I apologize if my two previous posts seemed whining - certainly not my intention. In retrospect, I can see how certain paragraphs could be taken as such and have made what I hope are appropriate edits. My musings on possible reship dates were meant to be read without inflection. And certainly without whine.
On the contrary, I'm quite impressed with the way Massdrop and @HassanS is going to bat on our behalf.
And yes, I tend to ramble. I'm working on that.
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The vendor is currently coordinating with the shipper on the misplaced shipment. In the meantime they are putting together another shipment for us and will have more news for us tomorrow.
In regards to the freebie, we are actively pushing for you folks and haven't reached an agreement with the vendor quite yet, but we will continue to work on this with the vendor and let you all know what they can do.
Our primary concern is to get another reshipment in as soon as possible. Whether that is the original shipment or a new shipment we are working on it and this is a priority. Stay tuned and expect an update from us with concrete info over the next couple of days.
Thanks for your patience and expect an update from us on 11/27 or sooner if something comes up.