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Showing 1 of 12 conversations about:
Calaverasgrande
1486
Jul 18, 2018
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this is a really silly product.
I expected to see a DAC. Instead it's a USB to Digital converter packaged like a home hifi component.
Really, if you are trying to get to better audio, get USB out of the way. It was never designed to function as a transport for synchronous data like stereo digital audio. So it makes no guaranty that sample 40001 will arrive right after sample 40000 and before 40002. With the same amount of distance between each sample to ensure smooth playback.
PirateIce
232
Jul 18, 2018
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Calaverasgrandethe digital delivery doesnt know how to keep bits in order? seems unlikely, also you lacked any alternative so as to avoid scrutiny, my guess... you probably use a usb dac and just dont think you need a usb filter, which you might not but you should have just stated a more direct complaint. I hear no complaint against this product yet you call it silly. Silly complaint.
Calaverasgrande
1486
Jul 18, 2018
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PirateIcea usb 'filter'? Is that what this is? Wow real snake oil.
To elaborate;
USB is asynchronous. Similar to TCP/IP UDP packets. It sends data back and forth, but there is no timebase. No promise that your bits show up in any relation to time. This is how you get jitter, a deviation in arrival time for various frames or samples.
Thunderbolt, or for those of old enough to remember Firewire, are isochronous. There is a timebase and the underlying protocol is designed to make a best effort to deliver audio/video streams in sync with the timebase.
Me, my DAC is a UAD Apollo 8. Quite a bit more expensive than this product. But it's designed for audio production use. It also has about 28db better snr.
Me, my DAC is a UAD Apollo 8. Quite a bit more expensive than this product. But it's designed for audio production use. It also has about 28db better snr.
PirateIce
232
Jul 19, 2018
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CalaverasgrandeI'm glad you checked out what the product is you commented on, but you failed to mention the relevant info requested: how is your dac connected to your computer.
PirateIce
232
Jul 19, 2018
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PirateIceoh ha, yea spend 2000$ on a dac vs a 100$ usb regenerater as a solution for the obvious proposed issue of noise from the pc, great idea lol.
PirateIce
232
Jul 19, 2018
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CalaverasgrandeUsb audio does indeed support isochronous transfer, here is a good write up http://www.epsglobal.com/downloads/XMOS/Why-do-you-need-USB-Audio-Class-2.pdf
cong314159
102
Jul 19, 2018
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CalaverasgrandeIt’s for people who has 2 usb sources and a dac with only 1 usb and some other kind of input.
By the way, USB audio is a standard, it Is indeed guaranteed that data arrive in order. A buffer eliminates jitter cause by USB transfer. The so-called jitter usually comes from the DAC’s built-in clock. I really wonder where you get your information, it’s like entirely wrong.
Some audio people are quite weird in that it seems nothing is good enough for their purpose.
Calaverasgrande
1486
Jul 19, 2018
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cong314159I did not say that the data arrives out of order, rather that USB is not going to maintain a timing reference. The space between your data frames can vary.
SmithyNZ
225
Jul 19, 2018
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CalaverasgrandeThere's a misplaced full stop in your original message which causes it to read like you're saying the samples arrive out of order... Amazing how a little dot can do that haha.
PirateIce
232
Jul 20, 2018
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Calaverasgrandewhich is restored by the DAC clock, and is the preferably way. Do you have any information that supports your claims about thunderbolt 2 and the ongoing inferences it is different in these regards? edit: preferably something backed up, aka real info.
ElectronicVices
2937
Jul 21, 2018
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CalaverasgrandeA niche product is not silly, you just don't understand it's purpose which is primarily two fold:
1) People with older DAC's born in an era before PC audio was as big as it is now who do not have a USB connection or it is of substandard quality (I own one of the latter). 2) Someone who wants to utilize the I2S interface in their modern DAC which does have inherent benefits. The benefit of that protocal with some DAC's is objective in nature but subjective in value added.
Given how much some I2S interfaces cost, let alone one with both HDMI and ethernet connector compatibility this is actually a decent deal.
1) People with older DAC's born in an era before PC audio was as big as it is now who do not have a USB connection or it is of substandard quality (I own one of the latter). 2) Someone who wants to utilize the I2S interface in their modern DAC which does have inherent benefits. The benefit of that protocal with some DAC's is objective in nature but subjective in value added.
Given how much some I2S interfaces cost, let alone one with both HDMI and ethernet connector compatibility this is actually a decent deal.
koblongata2
46
Dec 6, 2019
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PirateIcePCM is just some ancient digital presentation of analog signal, there are no packets, no timing information, no resend, the timing is totally relying on the timing of the "raise and fall of the voltage", and that raise and fall are really just sine waves trying their best to be perfect square waves because no electrical system in the world can generate perfect square waves, added to that, with whole bunch of reflections, internal noises from all the chips and external noises from the environment, it's blurry as hell. The timing of the source is equally important as the timing at the receiving end.
MartyM
26
Dec 6, 2019
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CalaverasgrandeI have a Schiit Wyrd in the usb port then a small Schiit Fulla 1st gen and then Pioneer Elite A20 Amp and it sounds pretty good trust me I don't complain.
(Edited)
PirateIce
232
Jun 1, 2020
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koblongata2what exactly were you trying to clarify for me about PCM? Did something I say run counter to this rough description of PCM? (which isnt the whole story for the usb audio btw)
koblongata2
46
Jun 1, 2020
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PirateIceEven with an ASYNC USB DAC, the timing of everything in the signal chain from PC to the DAC is still very important. You should look further into Audio PC optimization, it's a very interesting and rewarding hobby.
PirateIce
232
Jun 4, 2020
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koblongata2I think you've misread a comment of mine somewhere.
(Edited)
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