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Cujobob
133
Mar 19, 2014
Unlike for pocket knives, kitchen knife steel is more about the treatment of the steel than the particulars of the composition. What I don't quite understand is that I've seen a similar sized knife from Mac, also with what appears to be the same steel, for like $80-90 on Amazon, which makes me wonder what else it offers for a modest upcharge.
What you don't want from a kitchen knife is for it to chip or prematurely wear and finding that right balance on a consistent basis is not very easy.
Most likely, Mac sees their steel as a 'trade secret'...you don't see Victorinox give out the specifics on their steels either, yet they put out fine products at all different price levels. I've read nothing but good things about this particular knife, but there are some handfinished options near this price that are making me unsure of which way to go.
Anyone have a comparison between this, a Masamoto, and a Misono?
Jpiterak
7
Mar 19, 2014
CujobobThe $80 pricepoint knife is probably from their Chef series... the Pro series has a full-width bolster that helps increase heft and even out balance. I believe my Chef series santoku is also just a hair thinner than my Pro series gyuto. Both are great knives.
You're right on with most of the Japanese chef knives, with regard to steel types. Unless you are looking at a very high end knife that uses a high-carbon Hitachi white or blue steel, or something like the Misono that uses a Swedish steel, most of the knife manufacturers are cagy about the actual steel used in their knives.
That said, I did find a posting on Mac in a forum I frequent (cheftalk), from a poster I trust: "I think (but don't know for sure) that all MAC knives are made from one Takefu V-Gold steel or another: The Chef and Superior series are both made from VG-1 or 2, the Professional series is VG-5, and the Ultimate series is VG-7. " You can get details on these steels, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_blade_materials
The Mac steel is HRC Rockwell 59-61, which is about standard for Japanese starter knives. It is very easy to sharpen, provided you have the right equipment, and takes a decent hone between sharpenings with a ceramic rod. It is sharpened to 15 degrees.
I've seen some forum postings calling the Mac and Masamoto at a draw, with occasional dings on the Masamoto on fit and finish. Others rate the Masamoto a bit higher than the Mac, but below a Misono. The Misono is a clear step up, and currently Cook Illustrated's best chef knife -- but the UX series is in the $200 range. Another one to look at as a starter is the Tojiro DP 210mm Gyuto, in the $100 range.
Still, if this knife drops to it's lowest cost, it'll be a very good deal on a fantastic knife.
guvnor
735
Mar 19, 2014
JpiterakSomething along the lines of VG-1 is what I expected, but also not very impressive if true. That's why I'd rather know - it's like trusting a restaurant based on reputation only without even knowing what's in the dish you're about to eat(I guess that's most places nowadays).
guvnor
735
Mar 19, 2014
CujobobVictorinox uses 1.4110, basically 440A.
Cujobob
133
Mar 19, 2014
guvnorThey must have quite the heat treat if they're getting similar steel to 440A to retain an edge for a decent period of time. Really though, it doesn't make a difference much for kitchen knives as it's all about heat treat. I'd love 14C28N and AEB-L to be regularly used on knives as they hold keen edges as good as any steel, are inexpensive, and easy to get an edge back on. I'm not really sure what justifies some of the prices these knives are selling for, to be honest.
guvnor
735
Mar 20, 2014
CujobobAll knives are about the heat treat. Assuming they all go through proper heat treating, the biggest differences left will be in the steels.
It's not like MAC is heat treating these individually by hand - they're gonna sit in an oven via an automated process as most modern mass production knives do.
Cujobob
133
Mar 20, 2014
guvnorHeat treat is not only about the QC of the process (consistency of RC from blade to blade) but also about the choices made for that heat treat. It's why I advise against getting Kershaws with 14C28N but advocate people get knives with that steel, in general. I have an Elmax knife that is better than anything you'd find in production knife Elmax simply due to it's heat treat. The steel type is often about tradeoffs. With one you'll get better max edge retention, but is more difficult to sharpen. That same knife might lose it's peak sharpness the same speed as one that's easier to sharpen, so why would you go for that in a kitchen knife? That's why you won't see high carbide kitchen knives, I imagine, but low carbide kitchen knives should excel. It's also possible that 440A has a bad reputation because many companies using it for cheap offerings were using a simple heat treat that was cost effective for them to do, but not effective for the end user. Some makers have been able to take 1095 and get insane performance out of it, but it's not feasible to do it in mass production. So the question becomes, with these $100+ knives, are they selling you a brand name or are they selling you performance? I would like to get one and compare it with one of Spyderco's re-launched kitchen knives.