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Secushel
88
Mar 21, 2018
Hey guys I am a Chinese and I think I need to say something about this company… First I never saw any reviews or anyone buy K5 in local Chinese forum. And second this company had a notorious case of false advertising. They use fake 30017 balanced armatures for k3pro and promoted them as real ones. This case was greatly criticized by the famous Chinese electronic media Soomal. There are some Chinese companies selling super cheap but at least usable stuff like KFZ or Venture Eletronics. But in my mind magaosi is not the case
sangviro
45
Mar 22, 2018
SecushelAs a fellow Chinese, do you mind sharing the links to all this bad press? I wanna take a look hehe
Chaturanga
126
Mar 22, 2018
SecushelI am pretty sure you are from a company that seeing Magaosi as rival. We are not following Chinese local forums for K3 Pro or K5. On Head-fi, there are lots of people using those IEMs. I am (as a K3 Pro owner) being a fan of the IEM since I have started to listen it. If this my K3 Pro including fake balanced armatures so this fake driver sounds excellent!
The soundstage of K3 Pro is competitive to LZ A4 and also bass quality is better than LZ A4! I have used both at the same time. Yes LZ A4 is on more tecnical side but the laid back "slightly" V shape presentation of K3 Pro is perfect for me (it makes easier to listen long sessions) instead of more open and forward presentation of another IEM.
I am not a K5 owner and currently not planning to get one because I did not like to hear hissing problems with first batch, but that does not mean Magaosi is not capable of doing great IEMs. K3 Pro is proof that they can do.
Secushel
88
Mar 23, 2018
ChaturangaLol I am not from those rival companies. I am a user or fan of some Chinese companies like DUNU, FIIO, LUXURY&PRECISION, HIFIMAN, AUNE. Of course I have preference for them but to be honest they are not rivals for Magaosi. Magaosi or the brand LZ you mentioned are comparably too small for normal audio companies and also they don't really share markets or users with normal audio companies. Can you tell me who is the rival of Magaosi? I really don't know.
Secushel
88
Mar 23, 2018
sangvirohttp://www.soomal.com/doc/10100007375.htm http://www.soomal.com/doc/10100007278.htm Here are the links. Soomal is pretty professional for their reviews and photos of electronics among Chinese electronics media. I read all of their reviews about audio. I am personally a user of more than 20 headphones and 5 dacs/music players. In my opinion their false negative and false positive rates are both pretty small. So their comments are pretty considerable.
Secushel
88
Mar 23, 2018
ChaturangaMaybe you should try some more referenced or professional products at first and then compare them to Magaosi. If you are comparing K5 with K3 or LZ A4, you don't have a serious enough baseline for audio quality
Chaturanga
126
Mar 23, 2018
SecushelWhat I have experienced before is another issue, that does not change the fact that you have attacked a company with baseless claims.
I shared my experience with K3 Pro, it's an excellent IEM for the price and has a unique sound character. K3 Pro is my on the go IEM. For home listening I have HD6XX and DT770. Are these good enough for your taste?
Yes I don't have pricey IEMs but listened them time to time (in the meetings or shared by friends) from Oriolus MK2 to Noble Katana, Savant etc.. So I know what higher headphones sound like.
Secushel
88
Mar 24, 2018
ChaturangaI just gave some truth about this company. If you like their sound I can’t give you any comment. All right, you like it. You like all these pricy headphones and you also like Magaosi. But to be honest did I even mention any review about sound about Magaosi? I just stated some facts. No matter how you like their sound, that doesn’t change the fact about the company’s bad behaviors. Yeah I am attacking this company. I don’t like such companies. There are a lot of Chinese companies doing similar horrible things, like Meizu, nf-hifi. They are fooling customer. I am criticizing but my claims are not baseless. The first sentence you said is I am from rival companies. And you said you don‘t care they use fake drivers. This logic is so interesting. Am I asking you to change your preference? No, I am just telling other people some truth.
Chaturanga
126
Mar 24, 2018
SecushelI meant that I did not believe you about your claims. Mine was an irony, by praising the drivers of K3 Pro where you were calling them as fake ones.
You are calling drivers as fake and you are not providing any piece of proof for that. So show us by opening a K3 Pro case, get the drivers and compare them to original BA drivers that were supposed to be real ones according to you.
Sorry but, till you prove your claims, your words are meaningless.
Secushel
88
Mar 25, 2018
ChaturangaI did provide links in comments for others. You can check my reply. The essay is from a Chinese media and in Chinese. But you can see the picture how they disassembled it. As I said Magaosi promoted they used Knowles 30017 but they actually used 30017 from Bellsing, a Chinese company staring from copying Knowles. The Bellsing 30017 has the similar shape and same kind of usage like Knowles 30017, but the performance is much worse. It is fine if Magaosi claimed they use Bellsing but they didnt and they were pretending they used Knowles. This is the reason I said they used fake drivers. In fact for low price BA iems it’s not uncommon to use Bellsing. Even Fiio f9 used Bellsing drivers. But again customers have right to know. Fiio just told people they use Bellsing for less cost and also has another model f9pro with Knowles drivers. And in fact from some reviews, the fiio f9 is even worse than fiio fh1, which is a lower model but with Knowles drivers. http://www.soomal.com/doc/10100007375.htm Again this is the link to the essay. The essay actually explains everything and some details I didn’t mention. Like the driver they got after disassembling k3pro is named 31784, which is actually a Bellsing‘s upgrade model for Bellsing 30017. So it is more weird that after they used a better driver than the one they originally used, they were still promoting the original one, because 30017 was so famous and everyone in China knew Knowless 30017. Also, such kind of thing is really not that uncommon in China. So just don’t think I don’t have evidence. Do I even need evidence while everyone knows that? The similar scandal even happened last year on Meizu with their iem Flow. The whole thing was even worse than Magaosi and Meizu at last replaced all the flows they sold and also compensated another model of iem.
Severinial
1
Apr 2, 2018
SecushelFirst up, I will readily say that the dissection and photos of the K3 Pro certainly proves they're not using the Knowles driver. That is not under dispute, and is certainly something any potential customer of Magaosi ought to know.
I do however disagree with your characterization of Soomal, in case others want to use it as a source. I came across Soomal from their F9 Pro review, and respectfully, I find it no more credible than a random impression post on Head-Fi. The audio review world is filled with superlatives, hyperbole, and various very abstract forms of expression, that we all know, but Soomal takes it to another degree. At least common English terminology like warm, bright, tinny, etc are to some extent intuitively understandable, but what the heck is describing sound as "young"? Additionally, the claims it makes about the F9 Pro's sound signature don't match with the frequency response of the earphones (which they definitely ought to have, since they're claiming to be professional electronics reviewers), nor with what other more venerable reviewers report, not to mention what I hear as well. And as they do not specify authors of reviews, I can only say this about Soomal as a whole then.
At risk of hijacking your PSA about Magaosi, I'd like to give a warning when it comes to purchasing from a few other Chinese brands as well, as unfortunately a fair number are guilty of unscrupulous business practices too. Hifiman is infamous for exceptionally poor quality control and not admitting to it or covering under warranty, having done things like attaching two left earcups to an HE-400i, bad soldering, support brackets, headbands and hinges snapping after minimal use, and somehow managing to get uneven typesetting on headphones that sell for $6000, a price point where one deserves to expect near-perfection. VE's founder threatened to ban anyone who doesn't leave a 5-star review from purchasing his products again. SMSL has awful customer service, and as a personal anecdote, shipped me the wrong colored product because they only realized after my purchase that they didn't have stock left, did not tell me, and asked me to pay for the shipping to have it returned and replaced.
I know there are good brands out there in China like FiiO, Aune and Unique Melody that have been great to do business with. However, as a consumer, it's really just best to know you're taking on a bit of added risk when buying from China, because even high prices clearly don't guarantee quality.
Secushel
88
Apr 2, 2018
SeverinialOK. First I think it is right that customers needs to know but on the other hand Magaosi was pretending they were using knowles, which is another story. I don’t know how accurate you expect for the description. That word young is not important at all in the whole review. And young kind of means the sound of singers tend to be younger than their real age, which might result from the brightness and some other factors. It is kind of common in Chinese hifi community, which is the target readers of soomal. Actually I didnt even notice they have English reviews. Maybe they just translate their reviews horribly. Actually soomal’s review is accurate enough for more than 10 devices I tried and they tested. It’s hard to discuss this since their reviews are basically all in Chinese style. It is kind of complex to talk about most companies. Different customers have different metrics to judge. And even companies have different attitudes to different markets. I hate Hifiman’s quality control but he400i is less than $200 with same range of performance as hd650 which is far more expensive. And even some good brands like Sony and beyer have horrible qc sometimes like mdr1000x‘s broken bracket and Dt1770pro’s broken divers. Also I heard older dtxx0 models have bracket issues too. And the company Unique Melody with good customer service outside China has the worst customer service out of all local hifi brands in China from what I heard. They just have double criterion’s. And a lot of big compnaies you know like Sony, again, have horrible customer service in China. But some Chinese companies with worse quality control at least provide their service more conveniently and have better policy and also with lower cost. I really think it’s not the problem of region but the company. Like westone w60 has serious problem with its plates and they dont change it at all. People in China has even made metal plates to solve this problem because all users of w60 have their plates broken and need to pay a high price like $30 to get a new pair.
Secushel
88
Apr 2, 2018
SeverinialActually from my experience I don’t think you need to care about quality control a lot about Chinese hifi products. It is not that they dont have problems but it is that all companies have problem with their products and I don’t see that Chinese products have a higher chance. It’s more decided by price range and target market of the brand. If you think hifiman’s high price headphone has some problem, what about Grado? I really dont think they have better Quality Control and they are us company selling high price stuff too. What should be cared is how they handle all these problems. If you buy the same price range stuffs with same target market I don’t think Chinese brands make any difference with other brands. The only problem is that there are indeed a lot of shit companies and shit products from China which can’t be considered with normal brands. As you said , potential customers should know what they are buying.
Severinial
1
Apr 2, 2018
Secushel Ah no, they don't have English reviews, I'm just bilingual. My use of young was just a specific example. It could be said that my criticism is directed towards how the Chinese hifi community describe sound in general. I myself understand what they mean since I'm fluent in both languages and do occasionally visit the Chinese forums, but the point still stands. These descriptors are deliberately vague, abstract and obscure to even an enthusiast if they haven't been around. We're trying to walk a fine line between objectivity and subjectivity, but in my opinion this is really going down the deep end into so subjective that different people will have a different mental image of what's being described. I am particularly against the frequent use of poetic phrases, sometimes in reference to qualities of traditional instruments. Perhaps it's a personal preference, but I'm of the belief that it would add more credibility and reduce division. As for issues with companies, you're absolutely right, many do have issues and ideally we'd look at companies individually and independently, instead of generalizing across a region. However, as a consumer, that's unfortunately not possible, especially when a market is flush with new brands making very competitively priced products that can sometimes punch well above their class. I know which brands I'd rather not risk it with because it's been well-documented, but such information isn't always available. The stereotype of poorly made goods from China doesn't apply to everything, but there's enough truth in it that it can be disheartening. Regardless of where they come from, I hold them all to a same standard, adjusted for price of course, and at the top for me is Sennheiser. I naturally don't expect their level of QC and service for everyone, but that doesn't diminish Hifiman's chronic, endemic issues that to me highlight a larger issue with the company as a whole.
Just to be clear, I'm certainly not advocating not to buy from any of these companies (with the exception of VE because of the unethical behavior), I'm saying customers should be aware of an added risk, and it broadly applies to many of these new, high-value brands that have enjoyed a lot of publicity. My apologies if it came out too targeted, I'd call out Audeze too for their driver inconsistency and manufacturing, but that's not exactly topical.
(By the way, where/when did you see the HE-400i as cheaper than the HD650? When I was buying mine, the Hifiman was three hundred RMB more expensive.)
Chaturanga
126
Apr 2, 2018
SecushelOk, if it's not Knowles but Magaosi claims so that is a very wrong behaviour. For my side, I did not know what the driver was and I did not buy it because of the advertisement. To be honest, I don't care what Chinese brands on Aliexpress writing on paper, I always go with head-fi and some other forums to decide what to buy. I have read lots of good impressions on the sound and I decided to buy K3 Pro.
Did I regret? No! I am very happy with it's sound signature. I got it for 80 Dollars, at least I got what I have paid for (and I got more I think)
But again, dishonesty is not acceptable whoever does it.
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