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SoundMix
55
May 23, 2019
Do yourself a favor. Buy something WITHOUT tubes. Tubes are meant to color sound, or as some say, warm-it-up. Get a Topping DAC, something without tubes, it will sound better. I've worked the past 40 years as a recording engineer in many studios. None of the equipment used for making music has tubes...none. So why muck it up with a tube now?
jgibbs
20
May 26, 2019
SoundMixBecause people like change and different. If pure rendition is all you want, get a jds labs stack for a couple hundred. The rest of us like variety and options. I'm old and work in a factory, I personally can't stand anything bright, gives me instant headache. Not a lot of point using analytical dac/amp as I will not enjoy it. Just saying audio is about the listener and no one else, not even the recorder.
SoundMix
55
May 26, 2019
jgibbsMost of the solid state amps have adjustable filters so you can mimic the lossy, distorted sound of a tube if you want. You can switch in what ever sound you like. You will have more options by choosing an appropriate amp. Tubes run hot, are inefficient, wear out fast and sound different as they wear. If it makes you happy seeing the 100 year old glow of a tube...go for it. I'll admit, the glow is the best part of a tube.
(Edited)
jgibbs
20
May 26, 2019
SoundMixI do like the glow =) And I could use an eq. Maybe it's my equipment, but real tubes have something that eq doesn't quite do. Maybe it's just me. But to each their own is my main point.
jgibbsGuitar amp modeling with enough processing power is considered much improved now that it is almost indistinguishable from a real tube amp. When you're a guitar player the first time you hear (and feel) your instrument through a real all valve amp is quite the experience. There is no shortage of VSTs from mic - instrument in to the final mastering process that aim to mimic tube sound. There is a reason for this. If the objective is purist in nature, if it is to hear what the person heard when the music was mastered there is only one way to do this, to go to that studio and listen to the masters as long as no changes inside the studio have been made. When I think I've got my settings dialed in & I render a test track I will listen to is in usually no less than 6 different locations all with different gear in their chains including vehicles. I think if you can take something I've made & make it more enjoyable to you, whether that be through valves, 1 sub 2 sub 3 sub 4 or no sub (jazz: no sub recommendation), class D/H/A/AB solid-state amplification, vinyl, tape, digital stereo or mono or sudo-multichannel do it.
notanotherusernameYou can tell I've been working on repairing a linux workstation as I spelled pseudo sudo :)
SoundMix
55
May 31, 2019
jgibbsTubes naturally add even harmonic DISTORTION. In some cases this is desirable in things such as guitar amps. I have a tube guitar amp which was made in 1955 and I love it. In other applications, such as home listening, you may like this permanent coloration. You had better like it because you cannot dial it out or make it less distorted. I'd rather start with pure audio and adjust it to my taste.
(Edited)
Keno18
1
Jun 5, 2019
SoundMixThat's why people do tube rolling. If you don’t like the particular sound you're getting with one tube try another. I have a number of tubes that I use to change the sound to what I want at the time. You'll find many tube enthusiasts do this. I also own a couple of SS amps to "clear my pallet" from time to time.
pezo0ooo
0
Jun 24, 2019
SoundMixThat's an odd thing to say - that there's no tubes in recording studios.....the best sounding desk I've ever worked with was tube on the input stage. Adding analog in the recording path is hardly unusual. Plenty of people feed to tape and back or run LA2A tube compressors or similar on input just for the distortion. There's so much studio gear with tubes, not sure where you got that from... But that's just part of recording technique.. On playback, it has always seemed slightly disrespectful to me. Like EQ or normalisation.. or earbuds lol I actually want a fairly coloured tube headphone amp for perspective against my highly transparent gear. I always like to run listening material and mixdowns through a wide variety of outputs. But straight off the bat, I want revealing...transparent...clarity...
SoundMix
55
Jun 25, 2019
pezo0oooThanks for your reply. The equipment you refer to was mostly obsolete 50 years ago. And some of it was used to add distortion or compression as you say. Yes, some tubes were used for mic preamps in antique consoles. I recorded with one in my early career. It sounded warm but hissy and needed cooling for the tubes. Those consoles were sold off many years ago by reputable studios to make way for modern reliable equipment. Some old tube stuff is found in collections and closets. Maybe it's fired up on rare occasion to see if it still works. Lot's of studios have tube guitar amps, I do. I have a collection of vintage microphones. I don't use them, they sit on a shelf, one of them has a micro tube. Lol.
pezo0ooo
0
Jun 25, 2019
SoundMixWow.. Old yes (well sometimes!)...Obsolete...no. I'm sorry if you haven't had good experiences with analog gear in the studio, but a lot of these devices are still sought out. Never had any issue with the TLA desks except for the room heating properties haha, certainly a more positive experience than on Avid stuff, or Neve. These devices undoubtedly have a purpose, and I think you're being disingenuous to say they don't form part of contemporary sound engineering. You can reap great rewards on electric guitar and most amplified music, and certain styles of acoustic recordings. It's a tool, which is exactly why there are so many attempts to emulate it. And you don't have to use that tool but to say studios/engineers/artists are not doing so... I've even come across dance producers whose first outboard processing purchase was tube which I'll admit I found odd. And yeah I wouldn't use antique microphones either..except as a novelty..another tool. And I wouldn't be running out to grab an Ampex, that sounds like a horror movie to me. I would use a plugin. But I know there are artists who still want to bounce to tape, and ample forum threads discussing technique. Completely valid and reasonable argument on the home listening front, I can certainly empathise with that philosophy...there's such a bounty of wrong headed practices in the hifi & audiophile communities, but for recording - your use case is really not everyone's. I mean you can look up the house gear at a lot of studios.............which very quickly underlines my point.
SoundMix
55
Jun 26, 2019
pezo0oooI DO NOT have a problem with analog at all, I use it all the time. I have a problem with TUBES which are OBSOLETE in pro-audio! (period.) Exception - see my comment above about guitar amps. IMHO, guitar amp/speaker modeling sucks in the studio. FWIW I like AVID, Neve, Ampex, SSL, Harrison, 3M, Otari, Studer, etc., all great stuff that have helped me create some great music and movie soundtracks. As for house gear listings, much of it is crap used to create a looooong list of stuff. Been there done that, I have a lot of that unused stuff in the closet. Want to use it, fine... no problem, you're the client. Plug-ins...cheap alternative and good choice for those who cannot afford or have no means of using hardware. I prefer knobs. Back to work...
(Edited)
ls13coco
79
Aug 4, 2019
SoundMixHaven't read all the comments, but.. pro audio | listening for enjoyment. Many people prefer the sound some tube amps offer for sitting back with some music, as do many guitarists prefer the sound of tube amps to play through. Different tastes, every taste is right if you yourself like it. :)
tooitchy
309
Oct 4, 2019
ls13cocoCan't endorse this comment enough. Solid state amps are great, I love my THX, it's incredible, but you don't buy a tube amp to be your only amp, or at least you shouldn't though some do I'm sure. You buy a tube amp for the tube sound, you use it when you want the sound colored, when you want something that's not sterile and is the kind of music that sounds good with the tube effect. Anti-tube people are so weird to me, why are they so worried about how other people enjoy music?
tooitchyPreach my itchy friend! Desonide cream? Worth noting tonal variations of solid state amps. I cannot use my RR2160 on any efficient speakers like 8 ohm horns. The hiss drives me nuts. I need that class A stage for horns. Nominal 6 ohm speakers from Ann Arbor MI circa 1990s were better but still a noticeable hiss. 4 ohm Chapman Audio full range speakers - no audible hiss at closer than listening distance and those tweeters are not toys. Currently running a Yamaha R-N803 with the 6 ohm speakers. The Yamaha is clean and neutral and zzzzzzz puts me to sleep at times. No auto-return on the TT. Must... stay... awake. The speakers dissapear & all things centered appear to be coming directly out of the TT which is room centered but you feel the bass up the back of the chair not through your chest like with the RR2160. Most people say they can't hear the hiss from the RR2160. As a kid I almost quit a class because of the high-pitch squeel emitted from the CRT monitors that only a couple other kids could barely hear if they put their ears on them. I hear something happened to the loudest monitors but I wouldn't know anything about that. My parents had a twelve ton Sony Trinitron TV that started to emit a high-pitch squeal (only 2 other kids could barely hear it but it was so loud) one day I couldn't take it anymore and I just left. A humming bird outside my childhood window would fly by waking me every time (not joking). Today as a repulsively old man I struggled writing checks because the beep beep beep of an industrial truck working an 8th of a mile away with all the windows shut had me grinding my teeth down. I was the only one here who could here it. My hearing is... different. There's our baseline. So with the current trade war I decide I'm going to get the one Chinese company product I want to try and I purchase the DarkVoice 336se. HD 6XX, a cheap Raytheon 6AS7 & a cheap Sylvania 6SN7GTB and I'll be darned, a black infinity of silence. No audible hiss. Turn up the volume... no hiss. Switch to 60 ohm (I think) HD 5998SE no hiss. Switch to the 50 ohm (I think) Audio Technica MX50x which if you've ever replaced the pads with thick velour pads you know it's like shards of cold glass piercing your brain so surely if there's an audible hiss it'll be revealed by the ATs... nope. Cheap, effective, enjoyable (though for some reason I prefer listening to 'Fear Inoculum' out my inexpensive 8" Class D amplified studio monitors more than any other gear. I wasn't expecting that.) music, movies, news all good. I can even tolerate most female voices at low volumes. I have the DV connected to the 'record out' RCA jacks on the rear of the RR2160 for independant volume control of the Chapman speakers and the headphones and I am satisfied for that small room. I lugged in a wee little 15" active PA speaker and plugged it into the DarkVoice RCA outs and that was fun & really loud for about five minutes. The line out on the DV isn't static, it's controled by the volume knob - bonus. The DarkVoice isn't a hybrid. I do have a hybrid European pre elsewhere that is also very quiet and satisfying. My Orange Micro Dark amp is also a hybrid however I'm not a huge fan of it but it's cute and most of all it's lightweight. I can take it to the cabin with a pair of headphones. Is an Engl Powerball II more appropriate for the bedroom in this insipid suburban nightmare? Yes of course, especially at 04:00 hours but like I said the Orange hybrid lunchbox amp is too adorable to part with, even if it just collects dust. TLDR: I don't like everything valve and I don't like everything solid state. Nobody has or will ever design something I consider close to flawless in my lifetime, not even me, especially not me, however I did manage to find contentment on the cheap - and that my friend is priceless.
SoundMix
55
Oct 14, 2019
ls13cocoApples vs oranges
yohopa
9
Oct 25, 2019
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