Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX Headphones Discussions | Drop

Aug 30, 2017

HtotheGRemember these headphones are $500 if you bought them elsewhere, you're no longer in the entry audiophile segment of the market. To fully take advantage of these headphones, or any headphones for that matter, you really need amplification and source that are a good match. If you can't stretch above $200, then wait for a Massdrop deal, an Aune X1S or the Aune T1 are seen here from time to time, and would be better than the Schiit Modi+Magni stack at this price point. Btw, tubes are not better, they are just different.

Aug 30, 2017

Sempiternal

Aug 30, 2017

HtotheGI had been looking around at options in that price range, as this was my first Amp / Dac purchase as well. I'll just list off a couple that I found in my search at around the 200-250 mark. Keep in mind I haven't tried any of these personally, so I can't comment on their quality, but I have read good things about them all.
Schitt magni 2 + modi 2
Objective2 odac combo: https://www.jdslabs.com/products/169/objective2-odac-combo-revb-b-stock/
Objective2 amp + Ol dac: https://www.jdslabs.com/products/167/objective2-headphone-amplifier-b-stock/ https://www.jdslabs.com/products/181/ol-dac-b-stock/
Topping A30 amp + D30 dac
I'm sure there's a million other options out there & someone might have a better option for you, but these were what I was tossing up between before I stretched my budget and went with a slightly more expensive option (Audio-GD R2R 11)

Aug 30, 2017

Vote

Aug 30, 2017

JackulaActually they're 315$ on Amazon these days. But that's besides the point, because as long as you have the power necessary (aka you're not clipping) any decent dac/amp will sound great and deliver 99.9% of what these cans are capable of.

Aug 30, 2017

Vote

Aug 30, 2017

rhuntMore or less, clipping is only half the story. However every amp listed in this thread will clip with the HD6XX. You cannot get an ideal amp for these at $200, deal or not.

Aug 30, 2017

Aug 30, 2017

JackulaYou're saying non of these amps can deliver 63mW into 300ohms to hit 115db peaks with the HD6xx's? I'm not going look through all of these, however, take just the Schiit Magni 2, which can deliver 260mW into 300ohms. That's good for somewhere around 121db peaks, that's really damn loud, louder than the majority of audiophile speakers can play at 1 meter distance. The other half of the story is low distortion, high signal to noise ratio, flat frequency response and low output impedance. All of which the Schiit has, actually, almost all modern amplifier designs exhibit those qualities. Here's an article where the writer tests on a oscilloscope how much power the HD650's need. http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-power.html

Aug 30, 2017

Vote

Aug 30, 2017

rhuntYou're over simplifying NwAvGuy's findings. It can reach 115db at 1khz sure, but bass of HD6XX will reach close to 600 ohms, you'll need 116mW. Factoring in amplifier distortion you'll ideally need double that around 231mW at 550ohms (or 252mW at 600ohms, Magni does half of that). Then you have to consider noise, which there is a lot of in Schiit products. The Aune T1 I suggested outputs less power so it will clip even more but at least the output quality is better, it's a good trade-off considering most headphones out there do not require nearly as much power, and would benefit from better quality output than bucket loads of power.

Aug 30, 2017

Aug 30, 2017

JackulaGood point on impedance being variable, that will limit output to 118db. but i dont know about this noise youre talking about, since the schiit has a signal to noise ratio of 102db.

Aug 30, 2017

Vote

Aug 30, 2017

rhuntSNR measured at an elected stable-state voltage where the amp performs optimally. Also THD does not include all the measurements that contribute to noise and distortion. I wouldn't say they are fudging figures, it's just too many variables that can impact the sound, I mean if they really measured everything and had some kind of mathematical model to quantify sound, then we wouldn't be doing any listening tests while amplifier specifications would fill an entire book.
To give you a comparison, someone I know had a flagship Schiit Ragnarok amp for his planar, after he heard the Aune T1 he thought it sounded just as good. The T1 has zero chance of delivery enough power output to his planars but the quality trade-off was worth it, well at least to him.

Aug 30, 2017

Vote

Aug 31, 2017

JackulaI would wager that you friend doesnt listen at very high levels. Most people wont be listening at levels any higher than 95db RMS. If there was actual clipping he would have heard it, clipping is quite audible. But anyhow, i'm obviously not going to convince you that solid state amps all sound the same, given the parameters i mentioned above, and your not going to convince me that there is anything more to be heard that cant be measured.

Aug 31, 2017

Vote

Aug 31, 2017

rhuntSmall amounts of clipping are not at all audible, it happens more often than you think. Clipping in small amounts can affect soundstage, imaging and prat, things that are not easily measurable. I also think you're confused between listening volume and headroom. 115dB is the headroom, if you listened at that level you'd burst your eardrums. I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence, it's not possible to hear anything that can't be measured, science trumps magic.

Aug 31, 2017

Aug 31, 2017

JackulaNo i choose my words carefully, i know the difference between RMS and peaks. Now your not being consistant, your last sentence is in direct contradiction to what you said earlier, "I mean if they really measured everything and had some kind of mathematical model to quantify sound, then we wouldn't be doing any listening tests while amplifier specifications would fill an entire book," pick a side.

Aug 31, 2017

Vote

Aug 31, 2017

JackulaAnd how do this so called, difficult to measure small clipping, specifically affect soundstage?any articles or research that backs that up?

Aug 31, 2017

Vote

Aug 31, 2017

rhuntDifference between RMS and peaks is one thing, but it is unrelated to dynamics. You can easily mathematically derive RMS and peak from one and another, but dynamics is something completely different and that's where headroom comes in. And I don't know why you're quoting, clearly I belong to the science camp and you do not.

Aug 31, 2017

Vote

Aug 31, 2017

JackulaWow. You make accusations against me contrary to what i have been saying this whole time, and offer no evidence to support them. Also btw, dynamic range has everything to do with RMS and peaks. Honestly, seems like youre just trolling me at this point. Good bye.

Aug 31, 2017

Vote