Showing 1 of 7399 conversations about:
XizorGetspeed
5
Oct 1, 2018
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Hi All, Just bought this. Planning on using it mainly with my phone (iphone X). Wouldn't mind being able to plug it into my PC or even to my nintendo switch (what? I love the mario and zelda soundtracks lol) Do I need an amp or dac? Will I benefit from getting one. I see the Massdrop O2 + SDAC DAC/Amp available for $149. But I can't figure out how that will plug into my phone or switch... seems more like that's meant to plug into my PC or anything that has RCA ports...
Yes, I'm a noob, but with your help and guidance, I will learn :)
Thanks in advance!
Oct 1, 2018
Vastartifact686
12
Oct 1, 2018
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To get the absolute most out of these cans I highly recommend you get a DAC amp got usage on your pc and for a little boost a smaller DAC for portability with your iPhone and switch. Also if you plan to listen on a portable device make sure or at least try to have a decent streaming service like tidal or FLAC/ WAV files on deck for the best listening experience
Oct 1, 2018
Graham43
20
Oct 1, 2018
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I'm fairly new to this audio stuff too , but from my research i'd suggest these are not exactly the sort of headphones you'd buy for an iPhone. I just joined the SDAC drop and i have an O2 amp aswell already but i will be using them solely at my computer desk connected to my PC.
There is a lot of small portable amps that can be found if you are going to be moving around with it. Have a read around here i'm sure you'll find something that will have enough power to get more out of these headphones.
The iPhone already acts as a DAC but it won't have enough power to really bring out the best of the 6xx so i would suggest getting an Amp for them. You will definately benefit from an Amp.
With that - Massdrop O2 + SDAC DAC/Amp - you would need a 3.4mm to RCA cable plugged into the 3.4 mm dongle/adapter that came with your phone. However it runs off usb power i believe.
You might be better off with something like this >Topping NX1s Portable Headphone Amp. Or something Fiio.
Good luck.

Oct 1, 2018
nightdivine
35
Oct 1, 2018
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Get the headphones r try wo an amp first. For some they think the 6xx gets loud enough on the iphone itself
Oct 1, 2018
XizorGetspeed
5
Oct 1, 2018
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Thanks for the replies everyone. @Vastartifact686 @Graham43 @nightdivine
To add more info, my current headphones are the M&D MH40, but I've really wanted to get open cans ever since I heard a pair of my friends 598 (I think they were) and have been waiting for this drop.
I'd like to really expand my listening experience so it does sound like I should pick up the O2 + SDAC Amp, hook it up to my PC and subscribe to tidal for the full experience.
And then for ease of use, just plug it into my iPhone X straight and they'll work fine, just won't get the most out of them. And if I'm sitting at my desk, I can always plug my iPhone into the Amp as an option too (or my switch as well).
Logic makes sense?
Oct 1, 2018
Heefty
1356
Oct 1, 2018
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Amp, yes, absolutely, you will benefit from it. DAC, you may find that it's beneficial but that's up to you.
These are not mobile cans. Your phone and PC may be able to drive them. Maybe even make them painfully loud, but with so much distortion you will never appreciate the sound they can offer.
You should look at getting an amp that can drive them properly. If you don't want the expense, I'd get some lower impedance cans that also sound great, which can be had for the same price or less. I'm guessing, judging by the $1k phone, you won't mind putting a couple hundred into an amp though.
Oct 1, 2018
XizorGetspeed
5
Oct 1, 2018
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lol! Yes, I won't mind at all.
I ended up picking up the O2 + SDAC Amp drop that is also running. Excited for what's possible. Thanks mate!
Oct 1, 2018
XizorGetspeed
5
Oct 3, 2018
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Update. Hmm so I noticed last night the drop of the 58X. After reading much thoughts on it and people comparing them to the 6XX I began to second guess my decision on the 6XX. I also read that some people kept both for different uses.
So, I ended up jouning the 58X drop as well. Figured at these price points, I’ll just try them both, and let my ears make the decision. I’m sure selling the one I don’t want onwards wont be an issue... or maybe I will end up finding a use for both...
Oct 3, 2018
Bradum
164
Oct 9, 2018
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If you're looking to use it with your phone the HD 58X is a much better buy, as it's much easier to drive.
The Massdrop O2 + SDAC is a desktop solution, it's not portable. Not to mention pretty much anyone who actually knows audio gear will tell you it's pretty bad. The cheapest portable amp that can actually drive the 6XX well is probably the iFi Nano iDSD Black Label ($200). Unfortunately it's pretty bulky IMO.
Oct 9, 2018
XizorGetspeed
5
Oct 9, 2018
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Cool. Thanks for the reply and note. At this point since all of the above are shipped and en route, it’ll be just testing them out. For the amp, I’m cool with a desktop solution as ill be getting into MQA tracks and what not which seems to be off a computer only anyways...
Ill check out the amp you’re mentioning... just getting into this journey, will take things slowly - seem to be at a decent start.
Oct 9, 2018
Bradum
164
Oct 9, 2018
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If you're looking at a desktop solution, I'd take a look at the Schiit Stack (Magni/Modi), or if that costs a bit too much, the Schiit Fulla DAC/Amp. Those are easily the best values in the low end market.
Oct 9, 2018
Graham43
20
Oct 10, 2018
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Great just what i want to hear after spending $300 on an 02 Amp + Grace design sdac. You made my day.
What exactly is bad about the 02 Amp?
I read alot of reviews that said it was pretty good for the money and had plenty of power , more than enough , to run HD 6xx.
I use mine on low gain and the volume knob doesn't go much past 9 o'clock before it gets really loud , and yes i know that being able to get loud doesn't mean alot.
Oct 10, 2018
XizorGetspeed
5
Oct 10, 2018
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Hmm...
Okay been listening to this now for about an hour now... dunno if it's me and my untrained ear, but the one word that comes to mind is muddy.
Macbook Pro 2014, Tidal (hi-fi and masters), The O2 + SDAC/AMP plugged into the wall via included power adapter, included USB cable plugged into the back of the O2 and other end into the macbook, HD 6xx plugged into the front via the included 1/4 adapter that came with the headphones. That's the setup.
Vocals are clear, it's the faint stuff right...
What's the break in period of these headphones.
Oct 10, 2018
Heefty
1356
Oct 10, 2018
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That sucks, but matches my conclusion when pairing 6XX with O2, unfortunately. O2 is a great amp for some headphones, but doesn't have the V rails for the 6XX...
I'd call it congested on the high end... Everything up there feels compressed.
I would have recommended the Aune T1 as a good starting point, had you asked before buying the O2.
Oct 10, 2018
Bradum
164
Oct 10, 2018
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I know there's a big controversy over whether burn-in is a thing... But what I can tell you is that when I first tried them on my Magni 3 I thought they sounded muddy as well. Now I love them.
Take from that what you will.
Oct 10, 2018
XizorGetspeed
5
Oct 10, 2018
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fair enough... will give them more time... :)
Oct 10, 2018
XizorGetspeed
5
Oct 10, 2018
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though they seem to sound better coming straight from the audio jack of my macbook...
Oct 10, 2018
Bradum
164
Oct 11, 2018
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Yeah. Unfortunately I have heard not great things about the O2 from a lot of people outside of Massdrop.
Oct 11, 2018
XizorGetspeed
5
Oct 12, 2018
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will be selling it most likely, going to go over to a couple friends houses that have some serious gear and test out my 6xx... also want to rule out that I don't have a beat headphone or something...
I got the 58x as well today. Gave them a listen. Definitely notice the difference in terms of them being easier to drive, but not necessarily loving them either. I really like the way the 6xx sounds, just need a proper amp i'm thinking...
Oct 12, 2018
Graham43
20
Oct 12, 2018
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That's a shame. To me the o2 amp sounded pretty good with a fiio e10k as a dac. I have the portable amp only o2 from Mayflower. My Grace Design SDAC arrived the other day and i have to say i wasn't that impressed with the dac and thought things sounded better using the fiio. maybe i'm just used to that one.
I am yet to try it off my pc analogue out to see what that is like.
Is it just me or everything i research heavily before buying i read mostly postitive reviews about the product from all sources including what appear to be trustworhty experts. Then immediately after i purchase and recieve my product i read nothing but negative comments about it. Although apart from here i haven't found too many bad things said about the amp. *sighs
Oh well i'm happy at the moment and i'm sure ill be saving up for an upgrade int the near future :)
At the end of the day i guess it's whatever you are happy with that matters.
Oct 12, 2018
Joomy
211
Oct 12, 2018
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Burn-in is not a thing, but getting accustomed to the sound of new speakers/cans is.
Oct 12, 2018
Heefty
1356
Oct 12, 2018
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I'm not saying anything bad about O2. It is a great amp. I pair it with my he4xx and use them on the go and it is a great match.
It doesn't sound good with 6xx to me though.
Oct 12, 2018
Bradum
164
Oct 12, 2018
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Forgive me for not just taking your word for it. Care to link any studies?
Oct 12, 2018
Heefty
1356
Oct 12, 2018
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Hopefully this one takes off. I haven't followed one of these arguments for a while. I better get some popcorn too.
Oct 12, 2018
Bradum
164
Oct 13, 2018
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I honestly don't know, or care, either way. But when people make absolute statements about it they rarely have any actual evidence to back that claim up. Probably just read it in some very un-scientific article on the topic.
Oct 13, 2018
Joomy
211
Oct 13, 2018
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What's more likely? That a piece of hardware with like one moving part changes significantly enough to hear a difference after some arbitrary period of use, or that the whole thing is a myth perpetrated by an industry and community notorious for making ridiculous claims. It's the same people who claim, and believe, that you can hear the difference between any two (properly designed) amplifiers or that "HD" audio sounds better than a CD (google nyquist-shannon if you believe this), or that you need to isolate your CD player from the floor. It's all been debunked over and over. I'm not going to do your research for you, but a quick google will debunk any hi-fi fantasy you have, if you choose to do it.
In my opinion most hi-fi nerds don't want to have their absurd theories debunked because some part of their identity is tied up in thinking that they are privy to some rare knowledge. And of course manufacturers have no incentive to correct anyone who think that their hi-fi gear gets better over time, or that a $20000 amp sounds better than a $2000 one or even a properly-designed $200 one. The entire industry is built on selling snake oil and nobody invested in it has any incentive to change it. It's a lot like the wine industry, actually. Hearing and taste both seem to be hugely influenced by expectations.
Here are a few articles that turned up in 5 seconds of Googling. I can't be bothered looking for peer-reviewed articles, but I really don't think the onus of proof is on the skeptic who doubts the claims of a community/industry notorious for being incredible gullible, unscientific and prone to confirmation bias.
https://www.soundguys.com/headphone-burn-in-isnt-real-17463/ https://www.wired.com/2013/11/tnhyui-earphone-burn-in/ https://www.tested.com/tech/accessories/459117-science-and-myth-burning-headphones/
On amplifiers: http://seriousaudioblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/thoughts-on-amplifiers-generally-and.html http://tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/
Oct 13, 2018
Heefty
1356
Oct 13, 2018
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Oh my, we've got a Google scientist on our hands!
Those are the best kind.
I'ma blow your mind here. 1. Go get a clean new sheet of paper. 2. Give it a good crease down the middle 3. Uncrease it.
Holy fajitas, you can't! You mean to tell me that a mechanical stress applied to an object can change the physical properties of that object? I wonder if Google has any information on why that would be.
Interestingly the paper is now easier to to fold along that crease too. It's almost like it's been broken, or"burned," in for a specific use. I.E. folding along its crease.
It's almost like we just performed an experiment to test out a theory. I wonder if there are professionals who do this sort of thing. We could start a new field of study.
*stuffs face with big handful of popcorn*
Oct 13, 2018
Joomy
211
Oct 13, 2018
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Ah, the aforementioned hi-fi nerd who probably believes his expensive HD audio files that he listens to with his expensive amp and dac sound so much better than all those awful CDs he threw out years ago.
I never said that drivers can't physically change after use, I simply don't believe that the changes are perceptible, or that even if they were that they somehow infallibly make the sound better.
I mean, lots of people believe the Earth is flat and that moon-landing was faked and climate change is a hoax, so it doesn't really surprise me that people believe in this nonsense. It's just a bit sad.
Oct 13, 2018
Heefty
1356
Oct 13, 2018
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It's a good thing you have Google to teach those things I guess. I've never been able to use it well enough to get an entire education about things, sufficient to say without having tried to hear the difference in things, that they are an absolute farce and not worthy of consideration.
I just had to go to a university and learn how to figure things out for myself, so I'm stuck in this dreary world of performing experiments to find out if things are true.
Maybe I've just always needed a bloviating Google University school of science doctor to set me straight though.
You missed one though. I also believe that unborn babies aren't human. Could be a toaster for all I know.
*stuffs face with another big handful of popcorn"
Oct 13, 2018
Joomy
211
Oct 13, 2018
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And how have you "figured out" that burn-in is a real phenomenon? Are you an audio engineer? Have you conducted your own double-blind studies? So far I have linked 5 articles (of varying quality) to support my claims and you haven't presented a shred of evidence. And I don't expect you to.
Oct 13, 2018
Bradum
164
Oct 13, 2018
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Let's take a look at those articles shall we?
Soundguys Article has zero testing, and zero evidence. It merely gives a potential alternative, which neither proves Burn-In isn't a thing, nor does it match your original claim "it is your ears adjusting to the sound". The fact that you linked an article that makes a different supporting argument than the one you made shows you're more concerned about winning the argument than actually being correct.
Wired Even in this article it sasys "Matt Engstrom, director of monitoring products at Shure, admits there is evidence that suggests transducers in larger headphones can experience burn-in, and that this could, in theory, produce different sound over time". This article is mostly about "earphones" or "earbuds", and how they believe that the BA drivers in earbuds are too small to experience this. This clearly shows that instead of doing actual research or testing you just googled "why my opinion is right" and it's this kind of confirmation bias that completely kills any bit of credibility you may have been able to muster.
Tested Again, right from their sourced expert in the article, "It's clear to me, having had the experience, that there is indeed an audible difference when breaking-in a pair of Q701 headphones. I've seen measured differences, and now experienced audible differences. While the measured differences are small, I believe the human perceptual system is exquisite and able to perceive, sometimes consciously and sometimes sub-consciously, subtle differences." It also goes on to say that the company Shure has been testing headphones for years and has found that the drivers do not change over time, but does not provide any sources. In fact, it is directly contradicted by the previous article you linked where the Director of Monitoring Products at Shure claims there IS evidence to suggest that they change over time.
Conclusion The articles you linked were questionable at best, none of them did any actual testing, and none of them actually supported the original claim. You also have to remember that it was YOU who presented the claim that "burn-in isn't real, it is just your ears adjusting to the sound" as fact, therefore the onus is on you to prove your statement true, not us to prove that burn-in is real (since I never claimed I knew whether it existed or not, merely that I haven't seen any compelling evidence to suggest one way or the other).
Oct 13, 2018
Heefty
1356
Oct 13, 2018
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I just told you how I figured it out. I know the thought process required to move from a piece of paper to a speaker is a difficult hurdle to overcome, but if it can happen to one material it can happen to any.
I also told you I don't know how to use Google to back up my opinion. I presume that if I did, though, I could find as much subjective testimony that it's as clear a difference as between night and day, as your double blind testing tries to conflate with objective data. Trying to translate the subjective into objective data never has been a fruitful pursuit.
Oct 13, 2018
Joomy
211
Oct 20, 2018
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Let's go back to the original question and claim. XizorGetspeed complained about muddiness and asked what the break-in period was. You then stated that at first you found them muddy but now you love them. So the question was about whether the sound can change, but whether the unpleasant "muddiness" of the sound improves over time.
I then claimed that "Burn-in is not a thing, but getting accustomed to the sound of new speakers/cans is."
Having read and thought about it a bit more I now believe that was too strong and I modify my claim: "burn/break-in" defined as the changes in the sound of headphones/speakers over time IS a real thing. However, break-in results in at best very small changes and the idea that the sound changes dramatically false. Per the inner-fidelity blog posts, which the Tested article cites and which seem the most scientific (although still far from conclusive):
"Did I show break-in exists? No. There are too many variables still. Was it simply movement? I don't know. If I did it again to another brand new pair would I get the same results? I don't know. If I did it to an already broken in pair would I get the same results? I don't know.What I do know is that during the course of these measurements some things changed. While the data showed only very small differences, the data was clearly above the noise, and a general trend observable. " https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break
"The one thing I think I have proved, however, is that if break-in does exist, it is not a large effect. When people talk about night and day changes in headphones with break-in, they are exaggerating. This data clearly shows that the AKG Q701 --- a headphone widely believed to change markedly with break-in --- does not change much much over time." https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break-page-4
So it seems very unlikely that the minute physical changes in a headphone over time can lead to dramatic changes in sound, e.g. going from a "muddy" sound to one that you "love", reported by users.
So, while I admit that "break-in" can subtly change a headphone/speaker's sound, my original core claim is unchanged. The phenomenon of a pair of cans seeming to get markedly better over time is much more likely to be overwhelmingly due to subjective psychological effects rather than objective physical ones.
Oct 20, 2018
Heefty
1356
Oct 20, 2018
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Oh my goodness! Did someone actually back off from their absolutist claims in 2018!? Did someone actually admit that there is something subjective about the way we hear?
Let me push you a little farther then. Since your brain's interpretation of the stimulus it receives is variable, can you absolutely trust subjective reports on sound, whether they were collected as part of a double blind test, or from a report someone made from familiar surroundings having full knowledge of where they were and what they were doing?
Next question: If, to someone, the difference in sound on their $20k amp is, to them, subjectively worth that additional $19800 compared to a well designed $200 amp, can you definitively say that they are wasting their money?
Oct 20, 2018
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