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J857
52
Dec 20, 2013
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Wow, this looks like an amazing deal. Given the enthusiasm in this thread, I imagine that the headphone lives up to its reputation. The only thing I’m still unclear on, (for this and other buys) is how the Massdrop warranty works.
My understanding of the process so far:
1. Massdrop is not an authorized reseller of many of the headphones they source for us. 2. Most manufacturer’s warranty is null and void without a receipt from an authorized reseller. (Sennheiser included, emailed their support today and received response) 3. Massdrop in turn, provides the community with a promise of honouring the warranty themselves. 4. Massdrop also protects themselves from having to deliver on any such offer via their terms of service. From: https://www.massdrop.com/terms-of-service
"NO ORAL OR WRITTEN INFORMATION OR ADVICE GIVEN BY A MASSDROP.COM REPRESENTATIVE SHALL CREATE A WARRANTY."
I understand that point 4 is controversial, and it’s not meant to infer that Massdrop doesn't look after their customers. There are numerous anecdotal posts in various threads describing the excellent customer service, and hassle free returns and exchanges that community members have received. My ask for clarification from Massdrop is to go into a drop with full disclosure of what I'm purchasing, and to set realistic expectations on how to proceed. What happens if I have issues 18 months down the road, or I should have any expectations of warranty at all? This information would play into my decision to possibly pay less for a product and incur more risk, or pay more for a product with full warranty.
What does the Massdrop warranty entail? Will they repair, replace, credit or refund? As I tempt myself with all the offers, and gather other's opinions, I see more and more questions regarding warranty, and the response is always a nebulous, don't worry, we'll take care it. Is it possible to have some warranty details posted up in writing?
Just looking to seek some clarity.
Cheers
Dec 20, 2013
AFus
19
Dec 20, 2013
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Extremely well written and thoughtful request. I too have read the anecdotal comments about the great customer service and, although it gives me some confidence about the warranty process, the lack of a written policy with terms and conditions (especially the potential time a request may take having to go through Massdrop as a middle man) has prevented me from pulling the trigger on previous drops.
Dec 20, 2013
steve
331
CEO
Dec 20, 2013
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Hey - thanks for this post. You're entirely correct that the language used is unclear and should be revised. The (honest) explanation for this is that our terms of service needs updating as we've introduced our warranty policy after that version was written. Given our early stage, it's quite difficult and cost prohibitive to continually update our terms so we usually do it in batches (either quarterly or every 6 months).
That said -- I understand that the warranty question has been brought up more often in recent discussions and it's absolutely time to clarify. I'll work on this later today and will update the warranty clause to more explicitly represent how that process will work.
Thanks again though (and to @AFus).
edit: After looking through this, estimated time for an updated, much simpler TOS is early next week
Dec 20, 2013
AFus
19
Dec 20, 2013
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Good deal. Thanks.
Dec 20, 2013
J857
52
Jan 17, 2014
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Any update on Massdrop's warranty, with definitives on how grey market product will be handled? Now that nearly a month has passed, it would be beneficial to the community in having this knowledge prior to purchasing. While we appreciate the prior announced intent to clarify, its concerning that this matter has been left to linger. I double checked the terms of service today when I noticed that more stock of the headphones had been made available. Imagine my surprise to see that changes had been made with the complete removal of the warranty clause, and NOT the promised update to explicitly represent how the process will work. Furthermore, the TOS has been clearly changed, but is dated January 8th, 2013. Hopefully a clerical error and not an attempt to indicate that the terms as they read today are over a year old, as they are definitely not.
Also, is it possible to detail each drop on whether or not the product is white market with manufacturer's warranty intact, or grey market such as the current drop. It's caused confusion and frustration in the past (V-Moda drop and Fiio E17 drop etc) , and seems disingenuous to purchase an item at a discount based on a group buy, when the product is already being purchased at discount via a grey market distributor.
Anxiously awaiting clarification with the anticipation of being able to participate in near future drops with confidence.
Jan 17, 2014
JDWarner
331
Jan 17, 2014
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I believe Massdrop's warranty policy is almost always the same: you go through them with service/issues. This is actually a positive thing, though.
The reason is simple. They order extra above and beyond the actual ordered number of units, expecting to need to send them out when/if people have issues. It's built into their margins. Last year the low-count holiday drops were actually some of this excess being purged out of their system.
But by doing this, they can offer warranty service often superior to the manufacturer's. Ship it back, they send you a new one - and from within the USA, so the cost is better. This in contrast to most manufacturers, who have you ship it overseas at cost - then wait months while they either futz with it or determine it can't be fixed - then send it back, maybe fixed maybe not, or perhaps what you got is actually a different refurb.
Jan 17, 2014
Mark
3186
Admin User
Jan 17, 2014
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What a clever idea. :)
@J857 BTW, grey, black, purple, white, green market, whatever you want to call or define something, when you order things in the quantities that we order, we always have access to warranty/repairs. Getting declined for a warranty request at the retail level directly with the manufacturer is them trying to retain retail-loyalty, and getting declined for warranty with a retailer (because your name doesn't match the one on the receipt), is them just being lazy and not providing very good service.
Jan 17, 2014
AFus
19
Jan 17, 2014
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This kind of vague response is why I continue to avoid purchasing anything on this site until an effort is made to clarify this topic. The method mentioned by J857 is used by Groupon whereby in each offering they detail the conditions of the sale and warranty and whether it is offered by the manufacturer, a 3rd party seller, or Groupon themselves. Seems fairly straightforward to me and would provide more assurance to those preparing to spend potentially large sums of money on drops.
Jan 17, 2014
J857
52
Jan 17, 2014
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@AFus This is exactly the point behind the post, and originally promised by @steve (Massdrop CEO) several weeks ago. Personally I have no problem with grey market goods, as long as I know what I'm getting into, and Massdrop is willing to provide transparency to its customers.
@Mark. The choice of terminology for grey market goods is not my definition, but the one ascribed to drops such as this one. If you take issue with my characterization, try emailing Sennheiser which was the route I had to take in deciding to make this purchase due to a lack of clearly defined warranty terms on this site. They too, will describe their products sold as presented here as grey market, and as such without warranty support from them.
I agree with your description of the poor state of current warranty procedures with manufacturers and retail outlets, but would hope that Massdrop will take steps to distinguish themselves from the competition rather that participate a process we both seem to agree is a poor experience for customers
Jan 17, 2014
steve
331
CEO
Jan 21, 2014
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Hey there - glad to give an update on this:
1 - After looking into the warranty clause you referenced, it looks like there may have been some misinterpretation. The clause preventing an employee to make a warranty on behalf of the company was referring to a legal warranty (as in a promise specified in contract law) as opposed to a technical, product warranty. Regardless, I've removed that clause since it was unnecessary and ambiguous.
2 - I've actually generated a largely different version of the Terms of Service. This version is much, much more user friendly and much more relaxed. There are still protective provisions, but this is a great step towards one of our goals of providing the best TOS online. One step at a time.
3 - Warranties (product warranties). I've added a clause detailing the new, official, and explicit product warranty policy that we have. No surprises, there's nothing new here, but the Sparknotes is that Massdrop will provide whatever warranty service that the manufacturer offers (full clause below). We'll also cover the shipping costs both ways.
In general, we have an internal policy to do anything possible to make you guys happy so feel free to reach out if theres anything else we can do.
Thanks, Steve
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WARRANTY:
To determine if your item is eligible for a warranty return, review the paperwork that came with the merchandise or contact the manufacturer for specific details. In the event that the product purchased experiences defect or failure which otherwise would be covered by the product’s manufacturer warranty, please contact Massdrop via support@massdrop.com with a description of your problem along with your Massdrop Order ID.
Massdrop will request for the product to be sent back to a specified return address (which will be provided to you via email). Upon receipt of the defective product, Massdrop will make every effort possible to ensure your satisfaction by shipping you a replacement product. Massdrop will pay for all shipping costs related to warranty service. Massdrop also reserves the right to refund the purchase price as its exclusive warranty remedy.
Jan 21, 2014
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