Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX Headphones Discussions | Drop

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Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX Headphones

Audiophile

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FOHguy

Jan 8, 2020

Just got these. How long does it take to break in? Unfair comparison because they are right out of the box but the soundstage is tiny compared to Akg k712. Does break in help with that? Thx

Jan 8, 2020

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Michael-Q

243

Jan 9, 2020

FOHguyK712 is like one of the widest. 6xx/650 is not known for its soundstage. For me, I think it's more that I get used to and start to enjoy what I hear from a new headphone and not because it has been broken in. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Jan 9, 2020

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FOHguy

Jan 9, 2020

Michael-QThank you. Break in helps. It's getting a bit more open with better seperation and less low mid congestion so that's good. I'm hoping the detail improves with more break in.. But it does seem that the sound stage will be no match for the k712. This sound signature should be better suited for recording though as it seems closer to being well balanced. Thanks again for the reply.

Jan 9, 2020

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Jackula

1743

Jan 12, 2020

FOHguyThe soundstage is narrower but deeper than the AKG after since burn in. The 6XX has one of the most holographic soundstage with a good tube amp. The best soundstage I heard from it was from a Woo Audio WA6SE.

Jan 12, 2020

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FOHguy

Jan 12, 2020

JackulaThank you for the reply. I have about 60 hrs of break in on the 6xx so far and the sound quality and soundstage has improved dramatically. Imho the soundstage still does not compare to the K712, but it is much closer now that it has broken in and it certainly is very good. These are a no brainer bargain for the price.

Jan 12, 2020

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antontoo

Jan 15, 2020

FOHguyI don't buy the whole "break in" theory when it comes to headphones....your head is whats probably breaking in, getting used to the sound. 6XX soundstage is kinda narrow, with voices coming from right in front of you (some call that intimate presentation). I have a Loxjie P20 Amp and 6XX does open up some with a more powerful balanced connection, the voices are still in front of you but mid-to-low frequencies around that feel a bit more separated. EQing also helps create some space...but it still doesn't sound as spacious (or smooth) as my Grado SR80e.

(Edited)

Jan 15, 2020

FOHguy

Jan 19, 2020

antontooThanks for the reply. I politely disagree about break in. I work in the audio industry and trust me, break in is real. Although you make a true and valid point about adjusting to a headphone's signature as a reference, the fact is that there has been lots of imperical evidence to prove break in. For what it's worth, my 6xx improved dramatically during the break in period. They were fed a large variety of music and tones for about 4 days before I even listened to them a second time. At that 2nd sitting, (using the original reference music that I used the first time and that I know well) there was a dramatic improvement. It's even better now (albeit slightly) now that I have 150 hours on them. I like them a lot. Are they totally different than the K712's? Yes. But that's the point, right? Kind of opposite but just as good in different ways. Thanks again for the insight and the reply.

Jan 19, 2020

antontoo

Jan 20, 2020

FOHguyCan you link to empirical evidence that EIMs or Headphone sound signature changes with burn in? Conclusion No evidence in support of the existence of the break-in effect was found in this test. The changes observed were either too small to be audible, or very large and not repeatable, which suggests fluctuations in system performance or environmental noise. Also, no pattern was observed in any of the changes over time, ruling out a cumulative or long term effect due to burn-in. https://www.rtings.com/headphones/learn/break-in

(Edited)

Jan 20, 2020

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Michael-Q

243

Jan 20, 2020

antontooAntontoo, first I want to say I was the first person to reply to FOHguy saying break-in isn't significant. However, I do think it exists. "0.1%" is actually a pretty large number for spatial awareness when you consider we hear in the decibel scale. I watched a video by Innerfidelity years ago on this subject. They did a double blind test with a new akg K702 and an older K702 (or k701 something like that). They had an audio track on loop and randomly chose a headphone to place on the listeners head. Both of them could tell the difference within 10 seconds nearly 100% of the time. This isn't like those ABX test on 256kbs vs 1024kbs where it takes a (typical) listener minutes to decide and still get it wrong 1/2 of the time - trained listeners do much better. Based on the camera angle they could of had a mirror or laptop that showed which headphone was being picked up off camera but I don't think Innerfidelity would do that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jxdOEpiCTs The point is break-in is real and some people can tell more easily than others. I'm a person that can't really tell, but I shouldn't disbelieve someone that can tell because I can't. I am in a little disbelief to the extent people hear differences but once again, I shouldn't judge because I can't. I skimmed over the link you provided and felt it was pretty well done. But it mentioned multiple times there were differences followed by excuses that the differences weren't from break-in. The excuses were justified but does leave room for the possibility. Granted, for Innerfidelity's test there could have been variance in manufacturing. It's a tough subject to prove one way or another.

(Edited)

Jan 20, 2020

antontoo

Jan 20, 2020

Michael-Qumm yea, it’s possible they tested differently because the two headphones were different, not because of break-in effect. Would be more interesting if they would follow up the experiment with breaking in the new headphone for while and then comparing again to see if difference narrowed. Anyway I’ve never seen any solid empirical proof of break in effect, I don’t think any of my headphones technically did anything new after break in (hearing things I did not before) or changed their character unless I was EQing or driving them with different gear.

(Edited)

Jan 20, 2020

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FOHguy

Jan 21, 2020

antontooHello, and thank you for the post. Just to clarify, my intentions concerning break in Was not intended to get into yet another endless debate about break in. You can get all of the arguments for each side that you want by searching audio forums. I wanted others to know that, after initial disappointment out of the box with the 6xx, things improved. Some people might find that information valuable. But I'll oblige and go down the rabbit hole just a bit. I read the article that you posted, and if you read just past the conclusion that you posted, the tester explains why his tests are not conclusive and how they don't Dispel the notion of break in. And there is the rub so to speak. This has been the trend of every article like it that I've ever read. They determine that there are measured differences, but they are invalid or inconclusive or don't matter for some reason, (which, by scientific basis renders the tests invalid) and then a subjective hypothesis is made. The only thing those articles ever prove (to me that is) is that they can't prove that break in doesn't exist! So to my point, here's a direct quote from some one that should know: "Matt Engstrom, director of monitoring products at Shure, admits there is evidence that suggests transducers in larger headphones can experience burn-in, and that this could, in theory, produce different sound over time" And Tyll Hertsens from inner fidelity writes: "It's clear to me, having had the experience, that there is indeed an audible difference when breaking-in a pair of Q701 headphones. I've seen measured differences, and now experienced audible differences. While the measured differences are small, I believe the human perceptual system is exquisite and able to perceive, sometimes consciously and sometimes sub-consciously, subtle differences" And Guttenberg asked John Grado of Grado labs, who had this to say:

...he said, "All mechanical things need break-in." He did not recommend leaving headphones playing continuously for a few days to hasten the process. He recommends using new headphones as you normally would, and after 50 hours or so the sound will be all it can be.

Here are the links: https://www.tested.com/tech/accessories/459117-science-and-myth-burning-headphones/

https://lifehacker.com/do-i-really-need-to-break-in-my-headphones-for-the-be-5993461 But in true tradition, the articles waffle back and forth between both of our points. Here's another very good test. Have a cup of coffee with a friend and start debating this one! https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break In conclusion, Like Tyll's listening experience, there is no shortage of blind tests where listeners compared headphones that were broken in to headphones that weren't. And testers were able to discern between the two correctly. This has in fact been my personal experience. So I'm going to side with my personal experience and with the statements and test results that support break in. As they say YMMV. Happy debating, FOHguy.

Jan 21, 2020

antontoo

Jan 21, 2020

FOHguyWell you say you don’t want to debate...but then you do :) I absolutely agree, our perception of headphones changes. It’s a common story that you get a new headphone and you prefer your old headphones at the beginning, but as time goes on you may grow to appreciate what the new set excels at and may even come to prefer it. This is where I’m at with 6XX vs my old GR80e...I was thinking of returning it because the soundstage is kinda narrow and base is very tight and clinical compared to Grado’s deep, smooth waves. But after hooking it 6XX to more powerful balanced amp and spending some time with EQ I got the soundstage to widen up some to acceptable level and have come to appreciate the more detailed sound after spending some time in the headphones. Clamp force on 6XX loosening up helped with comfort too. But if I hook 6XX to the regular output and disable EQ it goes right back to sounding as deficient as I recall when I first pulled them out of the box.

Jan 21, 2020

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FOHguy

Jan 22, 2020

antontooAgreed that soundstage is kinda narrow but can improve with preamp choice. Bass is tight and better than I expected, but it's a bit lean in the sub bass. Lots of lush low mids though. It pairs very well with my RME UFX headphone outputs which are forward, detailed, and anilitical. It gives a very nice, tight, full, punchy, detailed listening environment with decent soundstage and separation. They are a bit thick and laid back with my dennon (which is very lush) Too much of a good thing. The K712's rock on the dennon.

Jan 22, 2020

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