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Massdrop Veil Wind Shell

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nquinn

Nov 8, 2018

Is there any chance we could get a new version that uses a 35CFM fabric? (like 7D)? That's considered the optimal rating from army testing

Nov 8, 2018

kim.suarez

661

Outdoors & Ultralight Collaborations

Nov 14, 2018

nquinnWe can definitely look into adding in more CFM. The only issue is then it loses a lot of wind resistance. It makes for a great running piece though. It would be something like the Patagonia Airshed, which I believe has 35CFM fabric, some DWR and some wind resistance. Just comes down to what you need this for. But I agree I want something with high wind resistance and high CFM for my run commute! Will keep searching the fabric world!

Nov 14, 2018

nquinn

Mar 24, 2019

kim.suarezKim, for comparison, the one jacket that does this is the custom enlightened equipmentcopperfield jacket with optional 7D fabric. (https://enlightenedequipment.com/mens-copperfield-wind-shirt-custom/). "Optional 7D micro ripstop nylon for lowest weight options (approx 35 cfm)." Pretty much everyone on backpacking light, reddit ultralight, etc, is on the hunt for ~35CFM since that is apparently what the military determined to be ideal. From what I understand the current patagonia airshed is ~70CFM (too high), and their new houdini jacket is super low, like < 5CFM. The wind veil right now at 10CFM is slighly on the low side. I'd prob jump at anything in the 20-35CFM range.

Mar 24, 2019

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kim.suarez

661

Outdoors & Ultralight Collaborations

Mar 25, 2019

nquinnGreat to hear that there's a need for this range! Let me loop in our new Product Manager @MichaelBretz so he can see this for future product ideation. Love the idea though!

Mar 25, 2019

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spiderbro

Mar 28, 2019

kim.suarezIndeed, a 35CFM garment isn't exactly a windbreaker, though it still blocks like 95% of the wind. The point is that you can comfortably wear it while hiking, as letting some wind through the fabric (and out again) allows for way better moving of moisture than relying on diffusion, which membranes basically rely on. The 35CFM determined by the Army was deemed ideal for intense hiking, in the sense that more CFM simply does not allow for more moisture to be carried away, and that it still prevents most of the effects of windchill. You hope for hich CFM and high wind resistance, but that is probably impossible as CFM is quite literally a measurement of wind resistance (or lack of it). Since the purpose of this jacket would be for active use, I think you should use slightly stronger materials than in the Veil. Another thing to consider here is the hydrostatic head. The army also determined with certain caveats, having at least 300mm of HH in the 35CFM garment allows you stay dry while hiking in most rainy conditions, as your body heat simultaneously pushes moisture away. The Army used silicone encapsulation to create a permanent DWR (!) in some of their clothing, and it also improved the HH while maintaining the required CFM. This encapsulation coupled with at least 300mm of hydrostatic head is just as sought after as the 35CFM air permeability. You mention having silicone encapsulation in the Veil, but it is probably different as you also mention having a regular DWR(?). The encapsulation process called EPIC used in the Army clothing is patented and Nextec is the company that provided the encapsulation. If you could collaborate with them, that would be awesome. If you can take the time to read through this thread, it might shed some more light on this pursuit of the "optimal" windshirt: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/a-good-alternative-to-wpb-gear-for-active-backpacking/

(Edited)

Mar 28, 2019

kim.suarez

661

Outdoors & Ultralight Collaborations

Mar 28, 2019

spiderbroLove all of this and really appreciate the time you took writing it all out. I'm adding again @MichaelBretz our new Product Manager as I'm sure he'd love to talk to you more. I'll check out the article now. Thanks again!

Mar 28, 2019

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