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Showing 1 of 96 reviews about:
s2030081
67
Jun 28, 2019
checkVerified Buyer
meh... Where is the DSD support?
After all the delay, I finally got the unit. It sounds great in vocal and high. Down side will be mid and high not balance with bass and not enough sub bass. Often, when the mid and high comes in, bass will be hard to be hear and the bass extension was lacking. The most frustrating thing to me is the DSD support. This DAC claimed to have DSD support. I have installed the driver on windows properly. No matter how I configure the ASIO driver in foobar 2000 and Tunebrowser, the DSD just won't work under both native mode and DoP mode. For similar price R2R dac, I will choose Soekris dac1101. It has DSD support and great sound, plus a powerful headphone amp that sounds great with my HD600 and HD700.
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Recommends this product? No
Chooseyourusername
3
Jun 29, 2019
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s2030081DSD support might not be a priority when your target demographic is a group of people looking for a cheap dac?
Jun 29, 2019
s2030081
67
Jun 29, 2019
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Chooseyourusername@chooseausername This product claimed to have DSD support, but it failed to deliver in day 1, plus no explanations from the manufacturer (Please correct me if you see their response on DSD support) Quote from product details: DSD formats: DSD64/128 over USB and S/PDIF if native DSD stream, DSD64/128 over USB using DoP, DSD64 over S/PDIF for DoP This is not a demand-and-supply problem but a problem of trust. Looking at the price and feature, even the Topping D10 supported DSD256 in native mode, cheaper than this DAC.
Jun 29, 2019
Fayne
2575
Jun 29, 2019
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s2030081Pretty sure DSD works, and you're just failing at it. Actually, not pretty sure. 100% positive it works.
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Here is signal path display from my Roon install, with the DAC running in DSD over PCM mode while streaming from Tidal. My $500 home streaming software doesn't seem to have any problems. While we're on the subject of DSD on this DAC, I have to ask the big question. WHY? This is a R-2R DAC, and any DSD doesn't get magically decoded like with a DELTA-SIGMA DAC. it has to be converted to PCM-384kHz in the FPGA before it can be played. All you're doing is adding extra complexity and getting a craptastic forced Linear-phase FIR filter at the same time. Just feed the DAC with PCM384kHz/PCM352.8kHz and be happy. If you want a Delta-Sigma DAC, get one. No R-2R has native DSD playback. EVER. If it says it supports it, there is a conversion happening. This is architectural. This is just like pretty much no native Delta-Sigma DAC has native PCM support. It is converted to Delta-Sigma either in the actual DAC, or in the controlelr FPGA.
(Edited)
Jun 29, 2019
s2030081
67
Jun 29, 2019
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FayneThanks for confirming the DSD support exist and working with some software. I feel very strange that it does not work with my foobar2000 and tunebrowser. I don't want to use my PC to do the DSD to PCM conversion because it was a very cheap single board PC that can't even provide a smooth playback when DSD to PCM is on. I understand the r2r dac will convert DSD to PCM on hardware level, this is one reason that I join the drop.
Jun 29, 2019
Fayne
2575
Jun 29, 2019
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s2030081Ahh. I can understand wanting the DSD to work if all your source material is in DSD. Mine is all FLAC, so it doesn't make sense (for me) to do the DSD transcode. The DSD to PCM in FPGA is sorta in hardware, sorta in software. You're almost always going to get better quality via a software transcode. But, I can also understand not everyone is doing that transcode on a Intel Xeon D-2146NT with 128G of RAM. I'd suggest investigating doing the DSD stuff in DoP mode. You may also need the WSAPI driver that @CEE_TEE provided, if you haven't tried that yet. I've not verified the DSD on Windows, just my Mac and one of my Linux servers. So... YMMV.
Jun 29, 2019
rastus
1391
Jun 30, 2019
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s2030081Perhaps try Audivarna as it buffers converted files, rather than trying to stream & convert in “ real-time”. https://audirvana.com/product/#formats_audio The Airist R-2R was always stated as dop based, not native dsd. Native processing of dsd in an R-2R dac is done w/o ever converting to pcm, try Denafrips, where I went for this reason.
Jun 30, 2019
s2030081
67
Jun 30, 2019
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rastusThanks. Off topic: what is the different in sound signature between denafrips and this dac? I was considering the Ares before joining this drop but I can't find any demo at my place.
Jun 30, 2019
rastus
1391
Jun 30, 2019
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s2030081I would have gone with the Airist, but stuck to my self-imposed rule of avoiding another un-needed conversion, DOP, so went Ares w/o hearing it... so I could hear R-2R... worth it:)
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Jun 30, 2019
rastus
1391
Jun 30, 2019
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s2030081I would try Audivarna as a free trial. I also use Korg Audiogate which puts a heavy load on a PC, “closed environment” with Korg dac’s, but a very nice setup. I use Process Lasso, https://www.ghacks.net/2015/03/24/process-lasso-8-review/ , free trial level, seems to help, but Audivarna’s scheme with a temporary buffer works nicely, lasso still runs too.
Jun 30, 2019
Ergomuse
26
Jul 20, 2019
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s2030081Did you figure it out? Based on new information would you still rate this a 1-star?
Jul 20, 2019
s2030081
67
Jul 20, 2019
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ErgomuseNo, still no working setting for foobar2000, even for dop.
Jul 20, 2019
mariant
97
Jul 23, 2019
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s2030081You might want to try another player. I couldn't make foobar2000 work with DSD on SMSL M8A. JRiver on the other hand worked fine.
Jul 23, 2019
s2030081
67
Jul 23, 2019
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mariantI did, and confirmed it failed on tunebrowser too. It is strange that dsd support for such a popular player foobar 2000 failed.
Jul 23, 2019
jaxtrauma
2104
Jul 24, 2019
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FayneYou're right about WASAPI, I use JRiverMediaCenter and get x2 DSD in DoP format after installing the extension. Lots of software have trouble w/ ASIO
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Jul 24, 2019
Fayne
2575
Jul 24, 2019
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jaxtraumaThat totally fits. ASIO is a finicky pain in the butt with all of my DAC. The only reason one should use it over WSAPI is for being able to change timings and buffers, and that is extremely edge case.
Jul 24, 2019
verifonix
1181
Aug 9, 2019
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Fayne>If you want a Delta-Sigma DAC, get one. No R-2R has native DSD playback. EVER. If it says it supports it, there is a conversion happening. This is architectural. Actually the Holo SPRING DAC has a separate ladder that can process DSD in real-time. It is possible, just overengineered and expensive to employ such a thing, especially needing a ladder for PCM and DSD separately. the Holo CYAN also has a DSD option where it can natively process DSD via a ladder, it's not architecturally impossible really. Another would be the T+A DAC 8 DSD.
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Aug 9, 2019
Fayne
2575
Aug 9, 2019
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verifonixWell, yes, you can have both sets of hardware in the same box (discreet designs or not). No argument there. But at that point, is it just a R-2R? Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm 99.9% sure I'm right), but discreet DSD does not use the R-2R ladder. My comment still stands. No R-2R has native DSD playback. EVER.
Aug 9, 2019
verifonix
1181
Aug 10, 2019
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FayneI'm telling you in these pricy products mentioned, there is an R-2R ladder for DSD processing. DSD is not difficult to convert to analog anyway, it is perfectly possible to do R-2R with native DSD. The Holo Cyan DSD only accepts DSD on its ladder DAC, PCM is converted internally to DSD. So no, you're wrong, it's possible :p https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-holo-audio-cyan-dsd-dac.6992/
(Edited)
Aug 10, 2019
Fayne
2575
Aug 10, 2019
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verifonixR-2R is a resistor ladder. R-2R does not support DSD natively. Ever. If the DSD is playing via the a R-2R, it is being converted to PCM first. It is not native ever. I don't care if the conversion happens in the same box, if it is going DSD->PCM or PCM->DSD, it is absolutely not native. If you don't agree with that, you may wish to spend a bit of time with a dictionary looking up the word 'native'. :) We'll use Wikipedia because I'm lazy and they have reasonable write-ups. Here is R-2R and here is Delta-Sigma. R-2R is (usually) this lovely simple resistor ladder (discreet or not), DSD is a flip-flop and clocked counter (discreet or not). If you know anything about basic EE, you'll know that they're wildly different. Also, just a note on the Holo Cyan DSD. It is *NOT* a R-2R Ladder DAC. It is a discreet DSD DAC, and all PCM gets converted to DSD before playback. Just like on the Holo Cyan PCM R-2R, where all DSD gets converted to PCM first. Amir states this in his review (which you linked). Also, while the "enthusiast" Cyan does have both DSD and R-2R modules, it requires you to pop the lid and swap a cable. So, back to my original statement which started this. No R-2R hardware can natively play DSD. You can have R-2R and DSD modules on the same set of hardware and direct the stream based on the contents; PCM to R-2R and DSD to the Delta-Sigma. You can even have chips with both R-2R ladders (or some other form of native PCM playback) and Delta-Sigma modulators, but you still likely would have to indicate the contents of the data-stream. Using a discreet Delta-Sigma modulator to convert DSD to PCM for playback via R-2R ... that'd just be silly. I mean, once you demodulate the delta-sigma you've got analogue audio, why convert it to PCM for use on the R-2R? Why not just spit it directly to the output stage? Just to be clear. I'm not knocking on the Holo Cyan. Heck, I've rather lusted after their products for a while. I'm just saying that you're wrong, and that a resistor ladder DAC can't eat delta-sigma streams without some magical conversion happening.. and conversion meaning not native. :)
Aug 10, 2019
MassBenny
9
Aug 29, 2019
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s2030081DSD for what? Your hundreds of DSD media titles ? Oh wait, I meant dozens of DSD titles(and most of those suck).
Aug 29, 2019
Ergomuse
26
Aug 29, 2019
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MassBennyRay Dahlio came up with a great way to use polling for decision-making that included a weighting system based on employee knowledge and competence on the topic. The more competent the employee the higher their input counted toward the consensus rating. This led to much better decision-making (and results) and avoided the loudest (and sometimes less competent) people from controlling the dialog. A one-star score is clearly not warranted in this case.
Aug 29, 2019
rastus
1391
Aug 29, 2019
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Aug 29, 2019
MassBenny
9
Aug 30, 2019
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ErgomuseWe all need to start somewhere. I guess you wore born with 5 stars.
Aug 30, 2019
Ergomuse
26
Aug 30, 2019
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MassBennyWe were all born five stars.
Aug 30, 2019
MassBenny
9
Aug 30, 2019
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rastusYa, and 90% were converted from Red book.
Aug 30, 2019
rastus
1391
Aug 30, 2019
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MassBennyPerhaps you are referencing to HDTracks, they have been caught red-handed, so-to-say...
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The ones I have gotten from AS; I look for this, and they reflect it - or should I say resonate, say things like: "DSD file created by Gus Skinas from the original Sony Super Audio CD cutting masters."

"Mastered by Kevin Gray at Cohearent Audio from the original analog master tapes!"

"Mastered by Ryan Smith at Sterling Sound Counting Crows put in the gigging hours during the early days of the band, and it paid off. By the time they signed to Geffen in 1993, they had already built up a significant fanbase. Their debut, August and Everything After, produced by T-Bone Burnett, was released later the same year and became an unexpected multi-platinum hit, partly as a result of the successful single "Mr. Jones." "We were fortunate that this was recorded to analog in an age that had many digital recordings," says Acoustic Sounds founder and CEO Chad Kassem, who describes August and Everything After as "one of the better albums in the entire '90s," with a timeless vibe and classic pop sound. Mastered by Ryan Smith at Sterling Sound." https://store.acousticsounds.com/c/391/DSD_Downloads

(Edited)
Aug 30, 2019
jaxtrauma
2104
Jun 11, 2020
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rastusAlmost a year later, and that's still a Hall Of Fame comment ;-)
Jun 11, 2020
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