Massdrop x Alex Cavalli Tube Hybrid Amp (CTH) Discussions | Drop

Mar 4, 2018

JmunandarBut what's that shiny thing sticking up in the middle?

Mar 4, 2018

•

zealoxs

Mar 4, 2018

RayFThe tube? It is a tube amp after all.

Mar 4, 2018

Mar 4, 2018

zealoxsWhat tube did they supply you with? If it's a russian tube throw it right out and grab an amperex

Mar 4, 2018

Vote

Mar 4, 2018

zealoxsI know, just kidding you ;- )

Mar 4, 2018

Vote

Mar 4, 2018

UzuzuA Russian tube? Sounds like collusion to me!

Mar 4, 2018

Mar 4, 2018

RayFLol. Yeah, I wasn't sure if it went in the first time I put it in since it never made any audible click. It also doesn't get that hot surprisingly.

Mar 4, 2018

Vote

Mar 4, 2018

UzuzuElectro Harmonix 6922. I've been reading reviews that tube rolling doesn't really make a difference and that the stock tube they give is the best. I don't plan on tube rolling anyways.

Mar 4, 2018

Vote

Mar 4, 2018

JmunandarStill, I wouldn't let anyone sit there...

Mar 4, 2018

Vote

Mar 4, 2018

RayFYeah, I agree. Did it earlier. It didn't feel good. Wouldn't recommend anyone doing it.

Mar 4, 2018

Vote

Mar 5, 2018

JmunandarTube rolling makes a lot of difference, more than changing amps or dacs. But I don't know how the Cavalli sounds. Get an amperex 6922, halo -getter

Mar 5, 2018

Vote

Mar 5, 2018

UzuzuThanks for the recommendation. I'll keep that in mind. For now, I'll stick with the stock, but can you link me the tubes you recommended? I'm a total novice on tubes.

Mar 5, 2018

Vote

Mar 5, 2018

Jmunandarlink? They're from the 60's, the links I could post will stagnate and it's kind of a pain to search for them on ebay. I have in my possession a lot of them though, I've tried many types of tubes though, the Harmonix sound decent, but no more or less, they're incredibly boring. Amperex are the most liquid sounding and I'll give you some advice. O (also known as Halo) Getter amperex are the most popular. It doesn't matter if they are 6dj8, 6922 or 7308, they all have the same structure and sound almost the same, People are going to price Holland made slightly more than USA made, and white label a bit more than gold label, but they all sound the same if the tubes are the same getter, they were made on the same equipment. I have holland and usa amperex tubes both white and gold label and they all sound comparably close to the same, so shop within your budget and it's okay to buy cheaper tubes (make sure the seller says they don't have noise issues or leaks). If they do have noise issues threaten to return them, a lot of ebay sellers sell off microphonic and noisy, garbage tubes for good money saying they don't have noise issues in the listing. Good matching 6922 amperex tubes were selling for 100-200 each pair last time I checked (about a year ago) but you only need one tube and it doesn't need to be matched, it should be cheap and easy for you. Happy hunting, and I have a lot of these tubes

Mar 5, 2018

Mar 5, 2018

Uzuzuhere's an example of a cheap tube. It's gray plated 6dj8, no gold-plated pins, etc. But look at it's structure, it's still an amperex O getter from the 60s. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Holland-Amperex-ECC88-6DJ8-Tube-Gray-Plates-O-Getter-100-100/332514515604?hash=item4d6b68da94:g:~0QAAOSwfphaVDGy here's another link, these are the same tubes I'm using now (except mine are white label holland 7308's and these are usa ones) https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-amperex-7308-tubes-gold-pins-6dj8-6922/183070541063?epid=168095192&hash=item2a9fdac507:g:FmEAAOSwZ3BagUhE see the huge price difference? 6922/7308 tubes last around twice as long as a 6dj8, but they are still the same structure'd tube and will sound close to the first, cheap tube I listed.
It doesn't matter if it's the cheap tube or the expensive, holland/usa gold/white label. It doesn't matter if it's gold plated or not. Just make sure to ask the buyer for leaks, noise and microphonics. If they vouche for and say they'll take a return if you are unhappy with the tube, then go for a good cheap one and listen to it til it burns out!
Welcome to the tube life. And don't buy the tubes from thailand/China/etc, they're fake!

Mar 5, 2018

Mar 5, 2018

UzuzuThanks for all the information! Yeah, for now I'll try looking around, will most likely never spend more than half the price of the amp for a tube. Should I just get that cheaper one that you listed to try it? I wouldnt mind spending 10$ haha.

Mar 5, 2018

Vote

Mar 5, 2018

Jmunandarthat's what I was hinting at. A lot about what you'll find on tubes is complete bull. Just make sure it's not noisy, because noisy tubes ruin your day and aren't fun, but the cheap ones sound just as good. Ask the owner first about microphonics and make him guarantee it (return policy) and buy it or something similar. The best thing with premium tubes is yeah they're usually less microphonic and they have much longer than standard/military grade 6dj8 tubes and such but they sound the same (or close to). Literally any half-decent tube from amperex will smash the electro harmonix.

Mar 5, 2018

Vote

Mar 5, 2018

UzuzuBought the tubes. Cheap enough for me to give them a try, and he has money back guarantee minus the shipping.

Mar 5, 2018

Vote

Mar 5, 2018

JmunandarBefore you go nuts spending money on a dozen tubes, the reviewer at InnerFidelity and bunch of other well established reviewers who had pre-release samples of the CTH are on record as saying there's not much point rushing out rolling.
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-tube-hybrid-amp-cth-page-2

Mar 5, 2018

Mar 5, 2018

NotABotYeah, that's what I read as well. But I don't mind trying this time since the tube I got wasn't expensive.

Mar 5, 2018

Vote

Mar 5, 2018

NotABot "Many of them were new production models selling for more than the stock choice, and some did a few things I liked, but none had the overall performance of the stock glass. I even tried some vintage NOS tubes and still I found myself right back where I started. " You'd not want to tube role just because Tyll said so? Dude can't hear over 4khz. I wouldn't say Cavalli chose a good tube for the amp, it's just the the harmonix are the cheapest decent reliable tubes they can get away with, everyone includes those tubes.
Just kidding about Tyll (though he's shown his bias in the past: he wants money like everyone else), but Cavalli's affordable amps are known for their warmth so just imagine a tube amp of it. Electro Harmonix sound very flat with a recessed midrange (to me) and good top and bottom extension. I consider it a cold-sounding tube. I would imagine on a warm amp it would sound good with the hd650.
I'm using a lyr 2, which is definitely a more clinical sounding amp so I enjoy the extra warmth coming from amperex tubes (good bass, liquid mids, slightly rolled off treble <-- I don't have this issue but I use beyers). And of course I don't want him to go nuts spending money on tons of tubes, cause a lot of what people want out a tube and think they are getting out of a tube is fallacy. I don't know how the CTH sounds so I do hope it takes on a tube-like characteristic, some hybrid amps don't use the tube for sound much, if at all.

Mar 5, 2018

Vote

Mar 6, 2018

JmunandarYeah, go for it but keep it in perspective. This was a cheap amp, so spending hundreds on a bunch of different tubes doesn't make much sense :)
Personally I'm going to listen to the stock tube for at least several months rather than roll right off the bat. And any advice I take will be from people who have already rolled in the same amp.

Mar 6, 2018

Vote

Mar 6, 2018

NotABotOh yeah, most definitely. I don't see much justification spending that much for tubes. I'm going to spend time with the stock as well, and when I want to try something new, I'll change it to the one I got. So far I'm in my 50th hour of burn in.

Mar 6, 2018

Vote

Mar 6, 2018

JmunandarTube burn in is a myth. Tube warm up is a thing.

Mar 6, 2018

Mar 6, 2018

UzuzuFrom TubeDepot: The Benefits of Burn In Power Tubes New tubes have always sounded and performed better when burned in prior to final testing and installation. By running a tube at full operating voltages (and not just the 6.3 heater voltages) for 24 hours, the cathode is allowed to stabilize and any oxide contaminants on the metal surfaces evaporate and are collected by the getter. The burned in tube is "cleaner" inside and better able to reproduce sound.For burned in power tubes, the initial matching is less likely to drift and rebiasing isn't needed. The stability is immediately apparent. And for preamp tubes, the improved tone is instantaneously accessible without having to wait for the tube to stabilize making "tube rolling" much easier.

Mar 6, 2018

Vote

Mar 6, 2018

NotABotI know all about it, and I'm saying it's wrong. The differences of the tube burning in doesn't make it sound different, in my experience. It doesn't sound like you have first hand tube experience either, don't believe everything you read.

Mar 6, 2018

Vote

Mar 7, 2018

UzuzuIn my experience, the amp sounded significantly different after a single day of burning in.
I'd also be inclined to believe the guy who designed it. Alex Cavalli posted further down in this same thread, which I hadn't read until today. First, the amp sounds pretty good out of the box, at least to me. But, as we all know tubes take about 50 hours to clear out the impurities still clinging to the various internal parts and SS portions do need some time. I don't think it's necessary to do a marathon break in session for 10,000 hours before listening. My experience has been that after about 25 hours playing music the amp begins to take on its full character. And then after that it evolves into is inherent sound signature.

Mar 7, 2018

Vote

Mar 7, 2018

NotABotImpurities clearing out of SS gear, that doesn't happen LOL! Amps don't burn in, bro.

Mar 7, 2018

Vote

RockyMountains

478

Mar 8, 2018

UzuzuNeed to reread. You are confusing the tube and the SS parts of that sentence.

Mar 8, 2018

Mar 8, 2018

RockyMountainsyou're blind as a bat "and SS portions do need some time "

Mar 8, 2018

Vote

RockyMountains

478

Mar 8, 2018

UzuzuThe impurities refer to the tubes. Not sure what he's talking about with the SS part, but if you desperately need to come across as an internet expert and need to start throwing insults to cover your insecurites, go take it up with Cavalli and tell him he's wrong and that only you know how it's done. It's not like he's got experience designing amps that use tubes or anything.
I mean, you've already trashed Tyll and called him a commercial sell-out. Apparently a couple of random ebay links and some randomly thrown out text is all that it takes to be the real expert.

Mar 8, 2018

Mar 8, 2018

RockyMountainsThis method has always worked for me: Carefully open each tube, and add one or two drops of liquid dish-washing detergent, then fill the tube with warm water and agitate gently for three minutes (using a gentle rocking motion). Finally, empty the sudsy liquid, blot the interior dry with a clean, soft cloth, and reseal the tube. Wait five minutes and then carefully reinstall the now, impurity-free tube into the chassis and enjoy!

Mar 8, 2018

Mar 8, 2018

RockyMountainsNot sure what he's talkjing about with the SS part....... he literally is talking about burn-in. I'm not being a know-it-all, but SS components don't burn in, they just don't. Burn-in sure helps a manufacturer's case though because it incentivizes someone to hold onto a piece of equipment they may or may not like for longer, thus making it least likely for item returns to be made. Not that there are returns on MD, but he has sold hundreds of his own amps on the side. I guess he knows everything, because he's an engineer (though burn-in of SS components isn't anything you learn in an EE degree anyway). Tyll is a commercial sell-out, he's sponsored, or at least wants to keep his influx of free audio gear. Remember when he changed his review of the ether c from unfavorable to favorable after fear he would damage MrSpeakers' early sales when he launched that product? No? He's unreliable.

Mar 8, 2018

Vote

Mar 16, 2018

RockyMountainsI have been around enough audiophile forums to reach a conclusion to Disregard any comments from uzuzu. I suggest you do the same And not waste your time.

Mar 16, 2018

Mar 16, 2018

andypak01;- )

Mar 16, 2018

Vote

Mar 17, 2018

andypak01Disregard my opinion for telling the honest truth about snake-oil concepts of SS burn in and tubes? Disregard my opinion because I'm giving my honest opinion and advice on tubes, telling a guy the best ways he can save his money and find good starter tubes? Honestly what is the problem here with you guys. Do you have any positive input at all on the subject? Do you need a safe space? Is there civil discussion anymore? Also saying that "uzuzu" is a name I use only on Massdrop and this is the only forum I post on doesn't mean much when you say you've seen me around. Lying like the rest

Mar 17, 2018

Vote

Mar 17, 2018

UzuzuDon't take anything you read here too seriously (I sure don't). You'll always be our favorite Uzuzu and we're all still crazy about you!

Mar 17, 2018

Vote

Mar 17, 2018

UzuzuI am talking from reading your comments in all other audio comments in this site. Don’t take it to heart. I just don’t have much patience and not really nice to brats who thinks to know-it-all and dismiss others whom may have different thoughts. Doesn’t matter if you are right or wrong, I am just not a nice guy who is kind to obnoxious kids in real life or on here. you just annoy me. giving Advice? no One asked for your advice. And giving advice to tube role a hybrid amp that has SS as amp section and saying you don’t believe in burn in. Why advice to role tube when it makes little to no change on a hybrid with SS amp? i just advoid your comments because you don’t have any credentials to be advising someonE and don’t care to hear what others say.

Mar 17, 2018

Mar 18, 2018

andypak01The tube influence on the sound depends on the amp's topology. The lyr 2 is a hybrid but tube swapping is still incredibly noticeable. Even though Tyll liked the base tubes with the amp he still reported differences didn't he? This place is for discussion dude, I don't know everything not even close nor do I claim to. You are just creating dissent and provoking me for zero reason. You weren't part of the discussion nor do you have anything nice to say. Only kids call others kids online, you've got ego issues.

Mar 18, 2018

Vote

Mar 19, 2018

UzuzuMan, you are annoying. I have Lyr 2 that I bought to match with LCD-2F after reading from MANY OWNERS recommending it as good match. Seems you don’t seem to get the point, i will tell you. They own it And can recommend it from their EXPERIENCE. from looks of it, this does not look like Lyr amp. You have no experience and no credentials but since you own Lyr so it makes you knowlegable source for advice? I don’t talk out of my ass just because I own Lyr and give advice on other products that I have no experience with. all hybrid amps are not same in case You didn’t pick that up. I’m going back to ignoring you

Mar 19, 2018

Mar 19, 2018

andypak01So you admit to just making up whatever you want about an amp you don't own either. Wow. So I guess Cavalli's hybrid sounds IDENTICAL to his SS amps and the tube is just there for looks, despite other reviewers who own the amp reporting that there are differences with tubes (Tyll). And I guess tubes carrying their characteristics across whatever amp is just mumbo-jumbo, despite the thousand page forum discussion about tubes in head-fi and despite many of us actually testing these tubes. In fact tubes themselves are just SS components that sound identical, I never knew. I see there's no reason or light on in someone like you and likewise I'm out, kiddo.

Mar 19, 2018

Vote

Mar 20, 2018

UzuzuAgain, I could tell a difference between a new and a used tube with this amp. I have trouble telling DACs apart, but the new vs slightly older tube was easy.
This desperate need to come across as an authority on Massdrop is sad. You even need to go around recommending tubes for an amp that you have zero experience with. Yet you criticize others who talk about this amp, that they've heard IRL. You seem to be missing the irony here.

Mar 20, 2018

Vote

Mar 20, 2018

NotABotA certain tube will impart the same characteristics, on whatever amp used. I don't need to own the amp to know how the tube will effect its sound. At least you just confirmed for me again, that tubes influence the sound of the amp, which Andy was trying to say wasn't likely in a desperate attempt to invalidate what I've written. Drink some coffee, wake up.

Mar 20, 2018

Vote

Mar 21, 2018

UzuzuLife must be hard for you with Your level of comprehension.

Mar 21, 2018

Vote

Mar 21, 2018

andypak01Don't forget, when it comes to new vs broken in tubes, one must consider the position of the Moon (as it affects the oceans tides), depending on ones distance from the poles vs the equator. They are under pressure you know...

Mar 21, 2018

Vote

Mar 21, 2018

Mar 21, 2018

Vote