Showing 1 of 260 conversations about:
chintimin
22
Sep 29, 2019
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sooooo. these have basically no sub-bass compared to the TH-X00, and can't be EQ'd to fix this. It's just not there.
Sep 29, 2019
bcaulf
149
Sep 29, 2019
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Did you try the lambskin pads? Velours breathe more, which can reduce sub bass impact
Sep 29, 2019
chintimin
22
Sep 29, 2019
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I did, but it simply didn't have a huge difference. I honestly think most of my issue is just ... sort of tuning my expectations. Have you used TH-X00 before?
Sep 29, 2019
chintimin
22
Sep 29, 2019
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The other thing I'm noticing is that the drivers open up a LOT really quickly over a bit of use. If I'd given up after an initial A/B, I wouldn't have a clue.
Sep 29, 2019
bcaulf
149
Sep 29, 2019
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I have not but...I know that the Fostex is considered the king of subbass. So it would make sense that the 177X isn’t as good in that particular area, nor do I think that’s what they were going for. Seems Beyer was going for a sort of a neutral sound but slightly warmer and with slight boosts in bass and treble, more of a U shape than a V. I still hear some subbass on tracks that have it but it’s not a crazy amount nor is it head rattling.
(Edited)
Sep 29, 2019
zep483
652
Sep 29, 2019
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Yep, which is a huge disappointment because the demo unit I heard had a ton of bass... IDK what the hell happened... I'd recommend a pad change to dekoni hifiman angled fenestrated pads. It brings up the bass and subbass slightly... makes it sound more natural at the least. Still doesn't sound like the demo I heard, but much better than stock. I've also been running mine constantly for days... my unit doesn't seem to be "breaking in" at all oof... only the pad change helped.
(Edited)
Sep 29, 2019
zep483
652
Sep 29, 2019
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I was able to manually eq it with some good results, but I have to run it single-ended and on a class A amp... these seem to be very AMP dependent...
Sep 29, 2019
JoeBi
Oct 2, 2019
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The change in product from the demo and review units is disappointing, and (unfortunately) makes all the early reviews unreliable. This may be a fine -- if overpriced -- product but I'd have to go through all the new reviews before I'd risk this much on middling fidelity. Am I wrong, or is this really as good as the Sennheiser or other collaborations?
(Edited)
Oct 2, 2019
bcaulf
149
Oct 2, 2019
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I haven’t heard the demo unit, I don’t know how different it is or if it’s different at all, as it’s being claimed. But I still love the way the final product sounds. To me, this is a bit different than the Sennheiser collar because they didn’t change the tuning from the original headphone. The 177X is quite different from the 1770.
Oct 2, 2019
zep483
652
Oct 3, 2019
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In some ways it may be better. I mean its good treble and it isn't treble murder like most Beyers... BUT it is not bassy at all, and I actually find myself adding bass to even make it listenable (and I don't have a way to eq it balanced, without software eq, and I don't tend to like to do that; so that defeats one of the purposes for buying this unit balanced for me). Also I've noticed that I prefer it on a tube amp or class A amp to give it less intense sound (even at the low impedance, which is odd)... even so, it is still overly present in the treble department, and again while better/warmer than other Beyer units, it still isn't as good as the demo I heard... my hope at this point is that it may just need 100+ hours of break-in (which I'm in the process of). I can get decent bass with about a 20% eq in the bass (2 o'clock on my subjective 3... adjusting no other settings), but without it, it becomes unlistenable after 30 minutes to an hour... treble fatigue. The clarity is great though (everywhere but the bass), so if you value that, these might be the ticket. Also the soundstage is better than the Sennheisers, even though its closed... The 789 just seems like a bad match regarding the bass, and the headphone becomes overly analytical. I didn't like the dark voice at first, but with some break-in its become the best option for me (with bass eq). If the bass doesn't round out at all with break-in I probably will just return them, because I'd rather have an 880 than these for the soundstage and overall presentation; although these do have more detail... They sound "OK" on other amplifiers I've tested, but I'd say they are very amp picky overall, again specifically in regard to treble murder and the bass. They sound pretty good on the Bravo Ocean because its somewhat warmer for example. I'm also not sure why bcaulf keeps defending these things, and seeming to indicate that they have enough bass... I literally put on my Koss 95x's last night and went back and forth, and the electrostats have more subbass and a more rounded bass presentation than these do... even on the dark voice with a manual bass eq bump... I'm fine with light bass as long as the information is present (I'm not a basshead), but literally without eq there is a TON of information missing in the lower registry. With eq, some of it returns, but it still lacks subbass performance. To pretend like this isn't the case, means he either has bad hearing, they require more burn-in than I have applied, or maybe I just got a bum unit... idk? If it doesn't end up evening out, I'm going to have to return my set- unsure if I'll return it for another or just return it all together... They should have some bass for 380-450... I bought these because they were different and better than the 1990 based on the demos. These do not sound like the graph that they presented at purchase, while the demo unit holistically did. After this, I might rather have the DT 880 (600 ohm), DT 1990, or even DT 1770 from Beyer and deal with the peaks...
(Edited)
Oct 3, 2019
bcaulf
149
Oct 3, 2019
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To be clear, I am just joining in the conversation, as I am very curious about the possibility of there being a demo unit different from the final unit and just saying I like the final product anyway. One thing that needs to be understood is that everyone does in fact hear things differently and everyone has different preferences and it doesn’t mean they have bad hearing. In my opinion, these have plenty of MID bass, it has enough for me to enjoy it, and I don’t listen to a lot of music with prominent sub bass, so it’s not as much of a concern for me. Too much bass in a lot of rock and jazz isn’t really necessary to me and can make the music muddy if it’s not done properly. I do agree it doesn’t have a lot of subbass (I said this in a comment above) but I can still hear some, so personally for me it wasn’t a deal breaker. I’m not as concerned about bass and to me it doesn’t sound like they were trying to make a bass can, and that’s fine. Not every headphone needs to have Fostex like bass. And not everyone is looking for that. It’s okay that you don’t like the headphone and it should be okay that I like them. I’m not trying to sell these to anyone, I’m just giving my honest opinion based on what I like and what I’m hearing.
(Edited)
Oct 3, 2019
zep483
652
Oct 3, 2019
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"Fostex bass..." this is the second time you've made this suggestion... seemingly to do nothing but discredit my statements. Please don't even imply that this is my expectation or what I am looking for. It is offensive. My expectation is neutral bass... not recessed... this is recessed... and badly so... even the midbass and parts of the bass overall, not just the subbass- not even recessed really... some of it is missing. Even a KSC75 may have more bass than these. But glad you're happy with your pair and that you hear it "differently." Like I said, maybe my pair is just a dud... I'll get to the bottom of it eventually...
Oct 3, 2019
bcaulf
149
Oct 3, 2019
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Sorry, was not implying that you were looking for Fostex like bass, I was just making a comparison using that as an example of a headphone known for its bass relative to the point I was trying to make. Hopefully you figure it out but at the end of the day there’s nothing wrong if you simply don’t like the way it sounds. Almost everyone in this hobby goes through that at some point.
Oct 3, 2019
JoeBi
Oct 3, 2019
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For me the 6xx was very well done, and parties were rewarded for the effort with massive popularity. The 177x seems different, and I was hoping for bass much better than the 6xx along with some treble detail. The end product may be good but it's apparently not what was expected based on early marketing. Oh well, maybe the Focal Elex can be revived. I'm probably too cautious, but if the Blon 03 can exist, then why not a THX00 without an ice pick in the ear.
Oct 3, 2019
chintimin
22
Oct 4, 2019
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I feel like a lot of people got really really attached to this model in their head. Like I had an opportunity to return it (still do I guess?) but I'm hanging onto it. I mean, fit and finish are fantastic and that's part of why I'm keeping mine - they're a NICE set to wear, physically, and they feel like they're built like a light, space-age tank. But... the sparkle treble is honestly veiled compared to my TH-x00 or TH-610. Let me say that again: They're LESS VOCALLY CLEAR IN THE HIGH END THAN FOSTEX. They're also WAY dim in the sub-bass section. I simply CANNOT make them sing on cello songs. It's a freaking closed can. What. *sighs* I heard BadSeed's review and was like "yay it's like a clearer 770 80 ohm I'm all about it I don't mind EQing" and... I did not receive that product. at all. It cannot bump, it cannot thrum, it cannot sing. But then after a while, I... found something weird about it. "flat" always sounded bad to me, as an adjective. But then I kept using these, and I realized that as "information", it IS all there, I just can't FEEL some of the bits the way I did in other sets. *sighs* "well-balanced" isn't normally my cup of tea is I guess what I'm getting at. For those of you who are looking for an insane amount of sub-bass in a secondary rig, I would encourage you to check out a pair of Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 80 ohm, or a set of Sony XB700, or a pair of Fostex TH-x00, or a JVC HA-SZ2000.
Oct 4, 2019
chintimin
22
Oct 4, 2019
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I can BARELY HEAR the sub-bass, and there's lots of notes I can hear on other sets (LIKE A PAIR OF SENNHEISER HD280s) which simply don't appear on these. Any attempt to crank or EQ the bottom end immediately results in crackling drivers.
Oct 4, 2019
chintimin
22
Oct 4, 2019
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I guess I just mean I find them to be a really comfortable full-spectrum headphone. But ... there's no sub-bass. It's just MIA. gone. Not there. I could EQ and get more sub-bass out of a set of AKG K701s, I kid you not.
Oct 4, 2019
bcaulf
149
Oct 4, 2019
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Right, it’s like I said in my comment. It is there, to my ears, but it’s true that it isn’t a lot. I guess they just didn’t focus on the sub-bass on this one. At least in the final version. A couple reviews I read describe it as U shaped, so not as prominent in both ends and more about the middle. I also wonder if it’s the kind of headphone that secretly needs a good amount of power. It is kind of odd that a closed headphone from Beyer is weak in bass response.
(Edited)
Oct 4, 2019
zep483
652
Oct 4, 2019
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There is good news. I've been burning them in non-stop... and putting them on a tube amp and jacking the bass to do so... The bass is improving! I came home from work, and put them on after 18+ hours of straight burn-in and I shit you not... there's more bass... I agree with you though, the K701's definitely have more bass out of the box. I'd say that they're about even right now, maybe it will keep improving... I read somewhere that the Tesla driver requires over 100+ hours to burn-in... my new hypothesis is that the test units may have been burned in already? Idk if its fixed enough yet to say... BUT, it is getting better...
Oct 4, 2019
zep483
652
Oct 4, 2019
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Also, I wouldn't call this set balanced... I'd call it treble influenced and bass light... a modded 58x is definately more balanced than these... but the stage isn't as good, nor the clarity... They ARE very amp dependent... so maybe try them on some different pieces... More balanced on a Darkvoice tube amp imho... and after MUCH break-in... bass is improving... gonna try to give it 100+ hours of break-in to figure out it's true potential.
(Edited)
Oct 4, 2019
bcaulf
149
Oct 4, 2019
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If you think this is treble influenced you should try the DT 770 if you haven’t...that thing almost ruined my ears! :O Beyerdynamic just likes treble. To me the treble on the 177X is much calmer (I’m not very fatigued by it) than the DT 770, but the traces of Beyer treble are indeed still there.
Oct 4, 2019
zep483
652
Oct 4, 2019
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yeah I know... 990 is worse than the 770 too... I prefer the 880 of the lower cans. I also not a huge fan of the 1990 because of it's sharp treble. I actually like the T1 more than the 1990... but you're right the 177x is the "warmest" treble Beyer makes for the most part. The bass and treble are both vastly improving with burn-in... it has only taken a week of STRAIGHT burn-in to this point... I almost gave up hope... I've never had anything be affected this much by burn-in except my TFZ No. 3's... but the 177x is even worse than those to burn-in it seems...
(Edited)
Oct 4, 2019
bcaulf
149
Oct 4, 2019
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I do think that small incremental changes can be made once the drivers start to break in and I suppose it can all depend on the driver. I noticed after only a couple of days the sound and stage started to open up, they started sounding more cohesive, bass improved and treble smoothed slightly. Actually all of these changes were slight. When I first got my H6 the bass was almost missing on those too and they sounded so thin I thought they were defective and I considered taking them back to the store. But again after a few days the bass improved and now to me those headphones get a little too playful in the bass sometimes.
Oct 4, 2019
zep483
652
Oct 4, 2019
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Mine has been DRAMATIC! ;) They were unlistenable without eq... now very tolerable ;)
(Edited)
Oct 4, 2019
JoeBi
Oct 4, 2019
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"now very tolerable ;)" And for only $450. Ok, on to December for the JVC IEMs.
Oct 4, 2019
zep483
652
Oct 4, 2019
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I'm still burning... I'll let you what happens after the weekend. They have "just enough" bass and subbass now without eq... even on a solid state. They are definately a dynamic and rolled off down there... but they are very very good after burn in... they sound like poop out of the box though... BUT getting closer to the demos I heard... I've never had anything take this much work to burn-in though...
(Edited)
Oct 4, 2019
chintimin
22
Oct 7, 2019
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I'm seriously fascinated by how "fine/tolerable" these are coming from a set of headphones that have some of my FAVORITE sound but simply weren't durable-feeling/comfortable/portable enough just after some burn-in. It. makes. a. huge. difference. I'm actually just using the velours because they seem higher-quality than the pleathers and the difference between the velour and the leatherette simply wasn't enough to offset the huge comfort difference. Hm. I might gank some pads off my purplehearts for these.
Oct 7, 2019
bcaulf
149
Oct 7, 2019
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I wonder if mine is going through reverse burn in lol. They sound clearer but I feel like they lost a little bit of warmth. Maybe it’s in my head though. Still sounding great though, and comfort has improved for me. The velours feel softer and spacious.
Oct 7, 2019
zep483
652
Oct 7, 2019
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I guess I'm not understanding your statements. I can tryto answer you better if you could rephrase maybe?
Oct 7, 2019
chintimin
22
Oct 15, 2019
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I just meant the amount of difference burn-in brought was dramatic for me, from a pair of headphones that I couldn't stand to one that OK these are a decent side-grade to my fostex. still bass-light. but nice in their own way.
Oct 15, 2019
bcaulf
149
Oct 15, 2019
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I’ve been noticing small incremental changes in mine too. Bass sounds like it has increased in my pair too and has also gotten a little tighter. They don’t sound as warm though, I think because the soundstage has increased a little as well. But the mids are still well balanced.
Oct 15, 2019
zep483
652
Oct 15, 2019
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Ahh Gotcha... I've given them almost 240 hours of burn in now... they keep changing. Getting more and more low end, and evening out in the FR. I can listen to them on my 789 now and they suddenly have good low end, and the high-end is detailed without being overly intense, like it was. It is very odd... I've never had any headphone take this long to burn in. I must say that I really like them now. With Angleed, Fenestrated pads they sound like a more clear HD600 with better soundstage and extended highs... with the stock sheepskin pads they may actually be a bit too warm now though (with some low end bleed). I haven't put the velours back on them to test again... just because I'm not a big fan of the feel of that style of pad, and the seal wasn't great to start with, but who knows... I may have to get some dekoni fenestrated pads that are meant for beyers... the thickness might be needed here idk... I might try them out at the next headphone meet I go to, but that will most likely be Can Jam LA- so awhile.
(Edited)
Oct 15, 2019
bcaulf
149
Oct 15, 2019
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Zeos recommended Brainwavz fenestrated pads in his review and there’s another review here that recommends them as well. Those might be worth a look as well.
Oct 15, 2019
zep483
652
Oct 15, 2019
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Yeah the problem there is that their fenestration is fake leather, which is kind of a bummer. I think I'd have to ask Dekoni... because I'm a pad snob... haha I needs sheepskin for my face ;) Angled fenestration looses a bit too much warmth/low end, and stock sheepskin has a bit too much... need something in the middle. So far, running it on a dark voice with the stock sheepskin may be the ticket.
(Edited)
Oct 15, 2019
chintimin
22
Oct 21, 2019
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I cannot put up with zeos. I just can't. has anyone else had the rattling in the left cup on low bass-heavy stuff when you turn it up? It's weird that it only rattles on one side.
Oct 21, 2019
zep483
652
Oct 21, 2019
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nope, think the rattle means something is busted.
Oct 21, 2019
chintimin
22
Oct 30, 2019
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any chance you can talk to me on like the phone or something so I can tell whether to RMA?
Oct 30, 2019
chintimin
22
Oct 30, 2019
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8gjsefNYpE Around 35 Hz, my left side starts tapping really loudly
Oct 30, 2019
zep483
652
Oct 30, 2019
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Yeah I think you got something busted... mine is fine... I also have different pads on them though... I'll swap pads and double check for you... will take a minute... do you have discord? I can send you a link...
Oct 30, 2019
zep483
652
Oct 30, 2019
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yeah i get a little bit of flutter in the drivers (both of them around 35), but nothing that I would say is an actual problem with the drivers... It could also be my imagination, so if you're getting a lot of noise and not just the low end oscillation, then I think you have an issue.
Oct 30, 2019
chintimin
22
Oct 30, 2019
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Just flutter. At a volume that I'd like to listen to the sub-bass, it sounds like it's hitting the walls at 35 but only in my left ear.
Oct 30, 2019
chintimin
22
Oct 30, 2019
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I'm on your discord. Talk tomorrow maybe.
Oct 30, 2019
emmo121
1
Nov 5, 2019
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Hey, I was about to pull the trigger on one of these but then I saw this thread and noticed that apparently, there are some differences between the early review and production units. Also, I see that the bass has improved with burn in in your posts. I guess my question is, knowing all this would you pick one up today? and also did they ever get to the point of the same sound you heard in the demo units?
Nov 5, 2019
zep483
652
Nov 5, 2019
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Yeah, I think they got there eventually. They had no bass for 120+ hours, and I think they continued to improve after 240 hours of burn in as well. I'd be prepared to burn them in for at least two weeks straight. The units I listened to originally must have been well burned in prior to sending them out to reviewers, at least this is what I hope... It seems like Beyer did not burn them in at all prior to sending them to consumers. I would also burn them in on bassy tracks and/or dark amps to stretch the driver out as well. That seemed to help tremendously. In the end they are one of my favorites. I have not settled on a pad yet though... the stock sheepskin darkens them up a bit too much and they lose some detail. Hifiman perferated pads diminish the bass a bit too much and they sound like a detailed 650 that needs a bass boost. I ordered Beyer Fenestrated pads from Dekoni as well, so I'm hoping those are the ticket, but I'm still waiting for them to come in.. otherwise I'll be swapping pads back and forth depending on the flavor I want. Also, you should be very well aware that these are very amp dependent, and sound different on every amp I own almost. These headphones are a bit of a chameleon set. I think I decided I like them on the new iFi Zen Dac/Amp the best, or the Darkvoice. Good review of the iFi Zen Dac that was recently posted below: https://youtu.be/A8BX_-7trvE



Nov 5, 2019
emmo121
1
Nov 7, 2019
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Thanks for the reply, I currently only own a FiiO e10K dac/amp, I know it's super low end, but honestly its powered everything I own just fine so I've never justified replacing/upgrading from it. Also, the price of the 177X is kinda high for me so if I get them all I'll be able to buy is them and a new cable for them for now at least, so i'll be using them with the e10K. I thought this would be fine due to the low impedance of them. I may look into getting a new dac/amp like the iFi Zen but I just can't right now, so I guess my question is do you think I'll be fine using and burning in the 177X on the FiiO e10K, I can definitely play some bassy tracks to burn them in, but do you think I need a darker amp to get the low end all the way or nah? Also please let me know how you find the Dekoni Fenestrated pads. I saw Zeos' review and he recommends the Brainwavz XL perforated pads so I might look into those but yeah overall I'm just interested in some pads that won't leak and will add a bit to the low end.
Nov 7, 2019
chintimin
22
Nov 10, 2019
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I know you didn't ask me, but I'm just saying: get an EQ app and use that if you're switching amps/dacs because of frequency response. No, really. Also, if you're really into bass, if you've never at least TRIED something like the DT770 80 ohm or THX00, I think you should if you ever get the chance. They feel COOL AS HELL when you're listening to bassy stuff.
Nov 10, 2019
emmo121
1
Nov 10, 2019
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thanks for the reply, and yeah I will definitely eq in some bass during burn in, but I hope after it opens up enough that they don't need eq. Also, yeah, I would have pulled the trigger on the TH-X00 (preferably ebony) but I'm looking for a closed back not semi closed.
Nov 10, 2019
zep483
652
Nov 10, 2019
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teak
Nov 10, 2019
chintimin
22
Nov 10, 2019
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that's fair. the Fostex is way not really closed at all. It leaks a TON.
Nov 10, 2019
bcaulf
149
Nov 10, 2019
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I would have pulled the trigger on them as well if not for that same reason. I bet they sound excellent but the isolation is a deal breaker. Plus they come with a crazy long cable. 177X isn’t the most portable either but better for office use.
Nov 10, 2019
chintimin
22
Nov 12, 2019
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The big problem I have with the AH-D2000/D5000/D7000/TH-600/TH-610/TH-X00/TR-X00/TH-900 is that they all have this TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TERRIBLE design in the hanger which is honestly rather fragile and breaks eventually under normal use.
Nov 12, 2019
bcaulf
149
Nov 12, 2019
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Yes that too, forgot to mention it. Probably not ideal for packing in a bag and taking to the office daily.
Nov 12, 2019
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