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REX1
5
Jul 10, 2018
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I really don't understand why you're not using Dyneema Composite Fabric. Maybe you can explain why granite is more money but it's lighter and 100% waterproof and you can also get breathable Dyneema Composite Fabric. Specially the bathtub of the tent and outer walls which makes a tent that does not leak water. I mean I guess I understand you're trying to keep the cost down but most of us are trying to keep the weight down. I really like your design but for what it is it looks a little heavy compared to some of the competition such as the duplex Tent from zpacks granite it's three times the price of your tent but it only weighs 19 oz I would think this would be a target and goal to go after specially since it's a two person tent versus a one. Like I said I like your design I wish it was lighter and I would jump in on the drop. I wish you the best luck with your tent let us know if you make it on a Dyneema Composite Fabric.
Jul 10, 2018
dandurston
2416
Dan Durston
Jul 10, 2018
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Hi Rex,
Thanks for the comment. I'm quite familiar with DCF (aka cuben), having built tents from it and owning many including probably the original DCF tent (SMD Refuge X circa 2008). It is good stuff. I like it for tent flys but not tent floors because the 0.5 - 0.7oz stuff isn't that abrasion resistant (it gets pinholes easily) while the heavier 1.0 - 1.5 oz cuben is expensive and wouldn't save any weight (this sil/PU poly is about 1.24 oz/yd finished weight).
So I'd love to do a mostly cuben X-Mid. I think it would be awesome and could be a better tent than the cuben tents available now. The X-Mid design is very space and weight efficient because it is based around simple and elegant geometry (as opposed to Zpacks tents which have many sides, edges and seams which adds weight). At the very lightest, an X-Mid with a cuben fly and a single wall inner could be as light as 13oz if I used 0.5oz cuben, trimmed all the features and opted for just one door zipper. That's be really cool because it's so light and yet provides such a liveable and stormworthy space compared to what's out there. 13oz is certainly an awesome spec, but I prefer double wall tents so I'm not sure what a cuben version would look like. Simply switching the fly to DCF would drop the X-Mid from 28oz to 22oz (0.7oz cuben) or 19.5oz (0.5oz cuben). Using a few other tweaks like smaller gauge zippers and one door would get it to as low as ~17oz for the double wall or 13oz for a single wall. If you compare apples to apples (e.g. cuben X-Mid in a single wall layout to a single wall 1P Zpacks tent) the X-Mid would be lighter and have quite a few other advantages (e.g. way simpler pitch, more storm worthy inc. full coverage fly, more headroom). I really want to do a sub 16oz cuben X-Mid to show that tents at the sub 1 lbs weight class don't have to come with all the downsides they currently do. I think people are generally too tolerant of the poor designs being offered now (with the exception of the TarpTent Notch Li, which is nice).
The reason the X-Mid isn't cuben now is because I gotta start somewhere and quite a few folks prefer affordable tents. The Massdrop collaboration also lends itself to a higher volume product because I can take advantage of their materials sourcing teams, factory connections and larger audience to put together this tent at a larger scale/lower price. If I ever make the X-Mid on my own or with a smaller partner it would cost $300 - $400 like competing tents, but with Massdrop we can offer the same materials and quality for $200. If I make a cuben version of the X-Mid, it would be in lower volumes and not more affordable than what's out there now ($550 - $700).
Also, cuben does have some downsides. It is more bulky when packed, and it doesn't handle torsional strain well, so it can delaminate if it is rolled tightly or folded repeated. These are worth the weight savings though for people that don't mind the price.
If the X-Mid is popular I'm sure a cuben version will happen at some point. Could be a couple years though.
Jul 10, 2018
Paragon
22
Jul 10, 2018
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You're describing my dream tent with this in cuben being less than a pound. I really wish you the best of luck with this and hope to see you back in a few months / next summer with an x-mid cuben.
Jul 10, 2018
dandurston
2416
Dan Durston
Jul 10, 2018
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Is your vote for single wall or double?
Jul 10, 2018
KatherineK
22
Jul 10, 2018
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i don't care as much about single v. double wall, but if you do ever do it in DCF keep the door zippers on both sides!
Jul 10, 2018
REX1
5
Jul 10, 2018
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Like I said I really like your design. I really hope in the future you design it out of DCF that would make it so much lighter I most definitely would be buying one from you specially if it comes in at 17oz or 19oz hopefully you make enough off of this run to build the next run in DCF. .51oz is most definitely to light for the floor your hundred percent it gets holes very quickly but going up to 1oz seems to withstand quite a bit. I just really like how well DCF keeps water off of me.
Jul 10, 2018
Paragon
22
Jul 10, 2018
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Double wall with the inside being a very light mesh. Just enough to keep bugs out. Mosquitos are ravenous where I go out and I haven’t seen a single wall shelter that will protect me from that without going full bivy. I‘m picturing the Tarptent notch li but in your more compact / space efficient design.
Jul 10, 2018
dandurston
2416
Dan Durston
Jul 10, 2018
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I've got all the components of the X-Mid in a spreadsheet (e.g. fabric panels, zippers, velcro etc) so I can predict the weight accurately of various versions.
Using 0.5oz DCF but with a sil/PU poly floor, keeping the double walls and dual zippers but switching to #3 zippers instead of #5 on the fly, the X-Mid would weigh 18 - 19oz. So slightly lighter than the Notch Li (19.9oz) and with more headroom, much more vestibule area, simpler pitch and a smaller packed size without struts.
Jul 10, 2018
ytowner
7
Jul 10, 2018
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Another vote for double wall DCF. Would be awesome.
Jul 10, 2018
Paragon
22
Jul 11, 2018
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Please please please! Any idea what price point would be? With what you're listing out, it really does appear to be the perfect tent (for me). I've been considering the notch li for a while but am questionable it would have enough interior space. Being 6'4 simply makes so many of the UL options unworkable. This design makes me hopeful I could get something truly UL that I can actually get in and out of.
Jul 11, 2018
dandurston
2416
Dan Durston
Jul 11, 2018
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It's hard to speculate on price without knowing how I would manufacturer it. I've worked with cuben before and could do a custom one, but it would be wildly expensive because it would take me forever to build. I made a cuben fly once and probably had 50 hours of labour into that. So I'd have to charge more than it's worth - not a good business model.
So most likely it'd be outsourced to some manufacturer who has experience with DCF. If so, it would likely be priced similar to other DCF tents out there. I don't know any of the costs, but I suspect it would come out somewhere near the price of the Notch Li with a silnylon floor (since I'd use sil/PU poly) at $539. But if Massdrop did it with a larger order size from a more efficient manufacturer they could likely get the price down. Again this just wild speculation and any DCF X-Mid is a long way off, but perhaps Massdrop could do it for $400.
Jul 11, 2018
Unnamedpeaks
8
Jul 15, 2018
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🙄 granite is abrasive
Jul 15, 2018
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