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BronxCheer
7
Oct 12, 2017
Anyone know how many inches of loft this has--single or double layer is fine as long as it is specified. I want to compare it to my Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends bags.
DannyMilks
4557
Oct 12, 2017
BronxCheerSingle layer is 2.5" of loft.
BronxCheer
7
Oct 13, 2017
DannyMilksGreat! Any chance to have goose down? I get along well with the goose down from Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends and Eddie Bauer--not so well with Big Agnes duck down.
Cardamomtea
588
Oct 13, 2017
BronxCheerI LOVE my big Agnes 700 duck down bag -- had it for 4 years now and loft is still fantastic. What issues have you had? Mine was manufactured in 2012.
Enlightened Equipment uses gray duck down for their 850, and gray goose for 900 & 950.
I have never been able to find a factual source stating the superiority of goose over duck for identical fill powers. Obviously the majority of duck down clusters tend to be smaller than goose, so the goose, as a bird, is better than duck (except eiders!). But since producers sort the clusters, you can extract the small % of large clusters and get 800, 850 duck down. Much more affordable than goose down! (See the price jump on EE's site when you go from 850 duck to 900 goose).
BronxCheer
7
Oct 13, 2017
CardamomteaAllergies.
Cardamomtea
588
Oct 13, 2017
BronxCheerOh bummer!! :-(
Stepbystep
549
Oct 13, 2017
CardamomteaA few years ago someone did a PhD thesis on bird down and it was a fantastic paper...all 200+ pages of it. He reevaluated some old knowledge and dove into some newer aspects with interesting results. Yes, there are some notable differences between duck and goose in the plume and barbule structure, and if taken into account and used smartly, there are times where duck could be an advantage and times where goose is preferrable. Duck is clingier, which you can see in your hand, and slightly more resistant to compression (loft reduction), but because of that clinginess it should be stuffed with a little more fill than equivalent goose down to help prevent cold spots. I think that probably sees an effect more in lower volume/shorter baffles than it does in larger ones. This is part of what makes eider down so glorious (along with that insane fill power which normal ducks can't give). In the end what matters is what manufacturers actually recieve in the bales vs. what they have agreed to purchase, so smart crafters evaluate the batches and may make small fill adjustments based on what they percieve in hand. Good duck down is nice, bad duck down is a waste of money...goose tends to be more consistent even when the quality isn't what is expected, plus it's usually free of odor where duck quite often doesn't get cleaned as well. It's interesting to see them offering 800+ duck down these days - marketing blurb based on changing processing and rating methods, but the down itself hasn't changed and in real life use pretty much maxes at about 700fp once it's out of the lab.
Cardamomtea
588
Oct 13, 2017
StepbystepGreat info! Yeah lab results versus real world results, that's an essay right there. The way I figure is if something measured 900 in lab, it will loft better in the real world than something measuring 700 in lab, given the down is given same prep prior to test (that's never attainable in real world). My thoughts, anyway :-)
Stepbystep
549
Oct 14, 2017
CardamomteaAs long as you can keep it dry and somewhat pristine, like in the lab. Higher fill powers seem more susceptible to collapse from moisture/humidity if you can't keep them dry or get them dry again while on the trail...good case for the higher volume fill calculations plus maybe a little overstuff. Sometimes lower fill power makes more sense...light clothing pieces are a good example.
Cardamomtea
588
Oct 14, 2017
StepbystepThat would be neat, if someone could come up with a test to show % decrease in loft at various real world conditions, for each fill power. I think the consensus online is just what you said (which is why I don't feel it's worth it to pay the premium for the jump from 850 duck to 900+ goose.
Or maybe a test for sleeping bag manufacturers, before/after EN tests. 'Course, there again you'd be trying to replicate in a lab real world conditions --hah!
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