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guvnor
735
May 11, 2018
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Wow, even using the same brand of blades as TUKK to have the 'U.S.A.' peeping through - except the product isn't even US made.
This is the world now though; IPs and patents are archaic systems that only exist to preserve monopolies through expensive lawyers. I'm not really against "shanzhai", but it does still come across as a little shameless when a large company does it to a small one.
Personally I don't care for Copper or Brass shells nor those body screws being thread right into the Copper and Brass. And the button seems half-baked in comparison to the TUKK, being just a smooth torx screw head.
May 11, 2018
Ares78
1502
Keyboard Club Member
May 11, 2018
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guvnorTo be fair, retractable x-acto knifes/tiny box cutters have been around for a while now. *That other retracting x-acto knife that uses magnets* is kinda claiming that this idea, that has existed for a very long time, belongs exclusively to him. Kinda like when Bluehole tried to claim that Battle Royal was their idea. Also hey this is just more competition which ultimately benefits the consumer so I'm fine with it.
May 11, 2018
sygyzy
36
May 11, 2018
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Ares78Right, @guvnor makes it sound like it FF is choosing some proprietary blade just to get some USA branding. What is "shanzai"? Wordplay against "Shanghai?" Christ.
May 11, 2018
Ares78
1502
Keyboard Club Member
May 11, 2018
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sygyzyWell "shanzhai" refers to a term used in China for "clones". Nothing to do with Shanghai unfortunately.
May 11, 2018
sygyzy
36
May 11, 2018
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Ares78OH! Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. I honestly had never heard of that term. Now it's even more sad.
May 11, 2018
guvnor
735
May 12, 2018
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sygyzyBut you have heard of Google? Could've looked it up before assuming I was making some form of derogatory comment against China?
And what's "even more sad?" Making assumptions based on terms you don't understand or that I pointed out the prominent U.S.A. - the only form of marking that indicates the country of origin on this product - which you're acting like isn't a common marketing tool? I personally think it's misleading.
Obviously using Techni Edge blades with USA on them isn't enough for any legal action, not that I ever claimed it was anyway, but also remind yourselves that Apple is suing other companies for using rounded-cornered rectangles; just the fact that a product immediately reminds people of another is in fact a result of design. Whether a specific patent has been infringed or not would need to be judged in court and is pointless to argue about here.
Shanzhai doesn't specifically mean "clones", it also encompasses a wider variety like imitations or variations.
It's amazing the number of people sitting here waiting to pounce even after I had stated I'm not against the concept.
May 12, 2018
Omniseed
1972
May 12, 2018
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guvnorThe TUKK cutters aren't even close to this.
They don't allow the same amount of usable cutting edge with the same blades, they specifically warn buyers not to carry one in their pocket because it doesn't have the same features as the RUK, they are not as ergonomically designed, they are 25% more expensive for the same materials, the one place the TUKK has an advantage is the titanium option, but that is sold out, so it's not exactly a real advantage, is it?
On top of that, the guy who makes them seems dramatic and angry, the kind of guy who would offer a pretty standard type of product and then selectively freak out when someone else makes a better example of the same item. He obviously has a specific NaCl issue with Massdrop, because he is bitching about MD all up and down his website and social media accounts but he hasn't uttered a peep against Todd Rexford or any of the dozens of other people/companies who make these upscale disposable blade knives.
I think it is not unfair to say that the TUKK maker is pitching an apoplectic fit because Massdrop decided to work with Ferrum Forge and WE to make a product he feels is in his wheelhouse and not theirs.
As far as the specific blade that they recommend for this knife, the Williamson post explicitly explains that they wanted to get a fix on which manufacturer makes the best, most consistent blades of that pattern. Disposable blades are cheap, I think it's incredibly helpful to have a recommendation on which brand is 'best' for this knife.
May 12, 2018
guvnor
735
May 12, 2018
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OmniseedEvidently they're pretty close if there's a fuss about it.
The maker of TUKK obviously feels like this product only came to be due to his original design, and I agree to a certain point; these disposable razors in a "high-end" sleek package to be used on a keychain were pretty much non-existent until the Rexford R.U.T. and TUKK became popular.
But as I already said, "Whether a specific patent has been infringed or not would need to be judged in court and is pointless to argue about here."
I also already said I'm not against the concept(this is the third time), but despite that folks like you keep on hopping in to say "how dare you compare it to a TUKK". I'd say the crowd trying to defend this product like it's their own brain-child are just as dramatic and angry.
Not the same amount of cutting edge? Ok, maybe you really need the extra 1-2 mm of blade?
I've carried a TUKK on my keys and in my pocket for few years now without issue; a disclaimer is pretty much a given nowadays. I'll be surprised if there isn't a similar disclaimer on the RUK, considering how much that actuation button sticks out despite being a smooth dome surface.
Ergonomic? It's a keychain knife. The TUKK is around half an inch shorter and half the weight, and personally I prefer the more compact option on keys.
TUKK is 25% more? Maybe has to do with 1 guy making them in USA instead of a factory in China?
Perhaps the Techni Edge blades are the best out there or maybe they aren't; but sure doesn't hurt to have a big fat U.S.A. on a Chinese product for those nice product shots.
May 12, 2018
rivy
143
May 12, 2018
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OmniseedYou're totally correct about all this. The guy @tacticalkeychains is just trying to stir up drama in the community to benefit his own bottom line. When, in fact, he is a copier himself and a clear hypocrite. He stole the Keybar/keysmart designs for his own tikey thingy.
May 12, 2018
Omniseed
1972
May 12, 2018
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guvnorI like how cynical you are towards Massdrop and how unflinchingly accepting of the craptastic whinging from Brad of Tactical Keychains you are. Like this dude has no reason to be professional at all, and yet he's still being wronged by the very existence of competition in the market he is in.
I also love how you acknowledge my points that the RUK is a better design at a lower cost with more features, and yet you persist in acting like Massdrop and Ferrum Forge is kicking Brad's dog with this collaboration.
The 'man' is being a gigantic baby and he doesn't deserve support in his crusade against a company for nothing more than doing business.
He should be ashamed and I won't buy one of his cool screwdrivers just because he's been such a bellend. I only found out about the screwdrivers because of this dustup that he initiated.
@rivy that makes sense, he's a career copycat who is just upset that he's being outcompeted.
May 12, 2018
guvnor
735
May 12, 2018
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Omniseed"I like how cynical you are towards Massdrop and how unflinchingly accepting of the craptastic whinging from Brad of Tactical Keychains you are."
Hmm.. maybe you can reference exactly which of my comments reflects this? Was it where I said "I agree to a certain point" with Brad, or where I had to repeat (for the fourth time now) that I'm not really against imitations or copys?
I acknowledged your points? I merely stated why none of those features are important(and why one obviously costs more), but I can't control how you delude things for yourself in the end.
You won't buy one of his "cool" screwdrivers? Um, okay?
You're the one depriving yourself of something you admittedly say is "cool", but I don't see why it's my concern. Clearly you're mistaking me for someone like you who seems to have irrational levels of emotions attached to this drama.
Finally, as far I as I'm aware, the TiKey pre-dates the Keybar.
Unless someone can provide some other evidence, the earliest references to their online presence are
TiKey Kickstarter: July 5, 2013 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tactical/tikey-titanium-key-holder/description
Keybar intro video: August 10, 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27rXrXIMhU
The Tikey reached their KS goal on Aug. 2nd. Shipped all units by Oct. 20th.
One of the comments on the original Keybar video from user Angus Black:
"Nice idea but here we are, 4+ months later and all I see on the keybar site is 5 versions of a product that are "COMING SOON!". "

P.S. - I will add for the sake of transparency, that the Keysmart Kickstarter did launch in May 5, 2013. Shipped all units around Oct. 25.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2065501355/smartkey-free-your-pocket/description
May 12, 2018
bambam67
334
May 14, 2018
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guvnorand the end game is...buy it...or dont buy it...$$s equal votes..
May 14, 2018
bambam67
334
May 14, 2018
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guvnor "Clearly you're mistaking me for someone like you who seems to have irrational levels of emotions attached to this drama. "
and yet your hugely long winded defense of your previous comments and attacking one that replied to them addd to the " drama":....HYPOCRISY? or just "irrational levels of emotions"? me thinks both...but nice try...keep telling yourself that.
May 14, 2018
guvnor
735
May 14, 2018
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bambam67If you prefer short and brief, I'm sure you can get by just pleasuring yourself.
May 14, 2018
bambam67
334
May 14, 2018
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guvnormy sexual preferences not withstanding..you got the market on irrational EMOTIONAL rants cornered.. and you just added another piece to the stack...good job sparky.
May 14, 2018
guvnor
735
May 14, 2018
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bambam67You jumped into revive a conversation that's been dead for 2 days, not even to add a decent retort, but simply to sling accusations. Was that your logic or emotions?
May 14, 2018
bambam67
334
May 14, 2018
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guvnoroooo 2 days...on a forum that has entries from 2 years ago...my bad..2 days..and yet you JUMPED right in to reply...hmm is that your attention span or do you monitor it to boost your ego? ..
May 14, 2018
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