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Showing 1 of 920 conversations about:
Zerviscos
34
Apr 27, 2020
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I like to buy this but considering the risks with the driver failure, people buying outside from US are in a terrible position. What's worse is that Focal international doesn't acknowledge the Elex existing as part of their warranty outside US, so really it's hard to try to buy this.
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Apr 27, 2020
Raingutter
20
Apr 27, 2020
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ZerviscosI’d suggest you get the official Focals instead. I’m one of the many owners who got a defective pair.
Apr 27, 2020
jrjr
29
Apr 27, 2020
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ZerviscosI am located in the UK and purchased a barely used pair on ebay from the US. I have had them for over 6 months, use them daily and not had a problem but it seems there are some issues out there. They are great by he way! I listen to them more than my HD800 and Emu Teak.
Apr 27, 2020
jaydunndiddit
3262
Apr 29, 2020
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ZerviscosI truly think these driver issues are WAY overblown . If you read most of the folks complaining, they state that hard Yanks on the terminals while listening to music lead to their issues (as is the case with most of these things in the interwebs). Either way, I've had my Elec since the first run and nary an issue with failed drivers, cables, or drivers bottoming out. And I occasionally run +10db of bass boost via my tube buffer and these things can really think for open backs. Also, if you want to know what the Elex sounds like, get an Elear and throw on the Clear or Utopia pads. That'll get you 99% of the way there if you're really that worried about a warranty or failures.
Apr 29, 2020
Raingutter
20
May 1, 2020
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jaydunndidditI used to think the issue was exaggerated too, until it happened to me. The truth of the matter is those issues shouldn’t even exist with a high price tag headphone like the Elex. Let’s have a bit of reality check here, how much of these same issue comes up with the HD 6XX if you google it? None, because it was properly built. Heck I could care less about fancy packaging, leather headband, and fancy cables so long as the driver is built to last. I can’t call it a headphone if the driver is dead, can’t I? PS for the record my HD 6XX took more hours of abuse more than the hours I’ve put on my Elex. Apologies for the rant I’m just pissed.
(Edited)
May 1, 2020
jaydunndiddit
3262
May 1, 2020
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RaingutterActually, you can with the HD 650. The first thing you Google are various threads and other reporting dead drivers and other issues. Same with Audeze and HiFiMan, etc. (which are also well documented too...). No manufacturer is immune to issues. Also, for a lot of these driver issues for the Elex, how many folks have bought these used in an unknown condition? How many have yanked the cables accidentally while listening and possibly caused a short? How many are listening WAY too loud to cause driver excursion, stressing the drivers and leading to their early death? All issues I've seen constantly pop up regarding this headphone prior to all these "dead drivers" but now people are hiding the abuse their headphones have gone through, intentional or otherwise. Not saying this is you, but what can be found across various threads. Focal provides a 2-year warranty so while it's an annoying problem, send them to Focal or Drop for repair. That's the point of a warranty when the unexpected happens. I've had my Elex since Feb 2018 so I just recently ran out of warranty. Unless you've had yours as long as me since the original drop, why haven't you sent them in for replacements or to get fixed? Looking at your profile, it doesn't appear you bought them officially new here.
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May 1, 2020
Raingutter
20
May 1, 2020
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jaydunndidditI’m not the first owner I have to admit, but I’m well certain I made most of the break in. In my case it’s more viable to service it myself, get a donor driver and be done with it. The number of complaints relative to the massive number of owners of the Senns there’s gonna be a bad batch, I get that. Complaints on Elex on the other hand is more alarming, in this case. If I remember correctly even @oluvsgadget got a defective pair at some point in his videos. I’m not saying all Elex are bad I’m just saying with all the expense they could’ve improved the driver quality. I can deal with the terrible cable it comes with. But driver... FFS it’s the most important component. Unless they’ve since changed the manufacturing my pair was based from, the driver assembly is nothing but a disappointment. Uneven cut of speaker surrounds, uneven amounts of applied glue, that’s seems to be the norm. The reddit thread I linked here clearly shows it. https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/g41ya0/in_case_you_guys_are_wondering_what_focal_elex/
(Edited)
May 1, 2020
jaydunndiddit
3262
May 1, 2020
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RaingutterThis is from the thread you shared with one of these being from the thread creator:
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Thread creator also bought them used and the other commentor admits to yanking on the cables whilst listening and them blames Focal QC for the following failures ... I'm not saying Focal doesn't have their issues, like any manufacturer, but people raising their pitchforks because they've been swindled or not practicing enough care with an expensive product is pretty ridiculous. Of all these posts, how many have purchased their Elex brand new and experienced any driver issues? You say it's well documented and "common" at this point but it's all anecdotal. Just seems to be a bad look to deter people from buying a product that's otherwise fine because you are pissed you got ripped off by a shady seller who sold you a defective product. That's not Focal's or Drop's fault, although I am sorry it happened to you. Just place blame where it really needs to be instead of taking it out on this company that literally had nothing to do with it.
May 1, 2020
Raingutter
20
May 1, 2020
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jaydunndidditI guess I haven’t been clear enough. It has nothing to do with the fact that it was bought used. Highly regarded reviewer OluvsGadget got his pair directly from Drop and it was defective, they had to send him a new one. I don’t know why you’re so focused on the yanking when it barely even make sense. Haven’t you ever drop your phone while your headphone was plugged in? I have, many times, and did it have any effect on my headphones? Nope, not at all. The connection is 3.5 mm, it comes off very easy, by design it’s a safety measure. Also the pcb where the driver connects to is screwed there is no way the driver can be physically moved just by pulling on the cable. There’s hard evidence of the driver not being well made. If I get the chance I’ll send you close-up shots.
(Edited)
May 1, 2020
jaydunndiddit
3262
May 1, 2020
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RaingutterAnd do you know that Drop sent this Oluv person a brand-new, un-opened set and not a used, loaner pair as they do like other sites and forums? Of course you don't. It's heresay and anecdotal but you'll gladly tout is as absolute truth so it fits your narrative. The yanking is a key issue. Your poor analogy of 3.5mm jacks is so misaligned it's sad. Headphone amps (like the one in your phone) have cautionary notes about yanking any cable out of a port/jack while in use as it can cause a spike in voltage/current and lead to a short. Why do you think they tell you to turn the volume down or mute your amp prior to plugging or unplugging anything? All that energy has to go somewhere and when you yank cables whether at the headphone or amp, you can cause a short. This isn't rocket science from the way these jacks are designed, hence why it's always one channel that goes out. Yet alone the stress you just out on the Jack and it's internals from a hard aggressive yank. If there is too much of a DC voltage spike from the amp during a yank, you can kiss those drivers goodbye. Your cellphone likely won't produce enough to cause permanent damage, doesn't mean it's not doing harm. Now, a desktop amp plugged into an outlet is a different story and exactly what the issue is here. Even more so depending on the amp if it is cheap and not well engineered with proper protections for said spike. So yeah, user error and why it isn't covered under warranty . Your poor handling of your devices and headphones is not evidence of poor manufacturing . Just like you buying a used product with defects, is not on Focal. All you've done is spam this thread and other comments with nonsense because you're pissed you got ripped off with your used product. It's sad, really. Hell, seeing they've sold over 2,800 units of the Elex, they don't even have a failure rate of 1% given the reports of this being so common (I mean, it's soooo well documented, right??). Last I checked, 1% is well within tolerances for issues and failures and many companies would kill for a rate that low. Even looking at your post history, all you've done is spam that link and trash these headphones. It's troll behavior and not a good look because you're angry and lashing out like a child. Oh well. Guess I'll just turn the volume back up on my working Elex and get back to work now 🙃
May 1, 2020
Raingutter
20
May 1, 2020
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jaydunndidditYour words fixed the issue. On behalf of the users with defective pair. We thank you.
May 1, 2020
jaydunndiddit
3262
May 1, 2020
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RaingutterAnytime! I enjoy helping out trolling whiny kids acting entitled and passive aggressive about a used product they bought from a crappy seller online 🙄 We can just chalk this all up to a lesson learned and hope you don't repeat the mistake again. Ok? Ok... 🤝
May 1, 2020
Rocket58
42
May 1, 2020
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jaydunndidditIt's the cable that come with the Elex that made a big difference in sound over the Elear with stock cable. The pads also made some change BUT not on the level of the cable.
May 1, 2020
jaydunndiddit
3262
May 1, 2020
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Rocket58This is so categorically false that it hurts. We have COUNTLESS measurements of pad swaps that show FR changes between all Focal models and between third party pads from Dekoni. Better yet, can you provide any measurements of any headphone/IEM/amp that shows these differences? I'd love to see them as well as many others, I'm sure... A cables resistance/impedance is not going to make a significant enough change to alter anything. It takes an OI of damn near 75 ohms to make a difference of at most ~2.6dB up to 500hz (the higher frequencies remain unchanged). Essentially, a warmer OI will warm up just about every Focal. But I am not aware of many devices that have an OI that high in the first place beyond measurement rigs. Hell, the Elex and Elear already have impedance swings from 100-350 ohms (mostly below 200hz) so a cable is not going to have any impact on FR as you state unless you have some.sort of crazy resistor network inline messing with the flow. This is already objective fact given Focal's get measured to death due to popularity. Same with square wave, impulse, and spectral decay graphs, the measurements speak for themselves regarding performance and FR. Also, if you're not volume matching, you can't objectively claim any differences either way. Which is basically what is giving you the perception of a cable change making a "change" is just the difference in volume. These snake oil claims of cables for headphones gets so exhausting....😔
May 1, 2020
Rocket58
42
May 12, 2020
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jaydunndidditI have a original Elear with stock cable and stock pads. Since the Elex is available on Massdrops I was curious to see the difference in sound compare to my Elear. Finally I was able to get the cable that come with the Elex and also the pads that come with the Elex. So the change in sound when you put the Cable of the Elex on the Elear is a drastic one. Better separation of instruments, better soundstage also the bass is much more under control and hit faster. This change appears with the Elear still with his original pads. When I also put the pads of the Elex I also get some change but not on the level of just switching the cable (with original pads). Im not saying the pads do not change anything IM just saying that the cable of the Elex compare to the stock cable of the Elear is huge one. Have you listen to yours Elex with the original cable that came with the Elear ? I also have the cable of the Clear and switching the Elear with the cable of the Clear again it's a complete different sound. BTW the pads of the Elex are identical to the original pads of the Elear the only difference is that the Elex ones are perforated (with little holes all the way around). I have both pads now to compare. The Elex pads are not the pads of the Clear that I also own.
(Edited)
May 12, 2020
jaydunndiddit
3262
May 12, 2020
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Rocket58Simple question - are you volume matching? If not, it's a moot point. And yes, I switch cables constantly from all my stock Focals, compared to my Amazon specials, the cables I've built, and custom cables I've had ordered. Volume matched, it all sounds equal.
May 12, 2020
jaydunndiddit
3262
May 12, 2020
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Rocket58Even more wild, the pads make a pretty stark difference. We have measurements of that as pretty much any fenestrated pad is going to alter the sound in a pretty drastic way for any headphone by design. This has been measured ad nauseum so Google is your friend here.
May 12, 2020
Nachi
63
May 12, 2020
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Rocket58I'm an electrical engineer. This is false by the same reasons Jay mentioned. It is far more likely you damaged the stock cable. I have tried a total of 3 cables for the Elear in pursuit of comfort and manageability. I have soldered my own wires, I have bought one from Mimic Cables with Viablue splitters, and the Elex cable. All sound identical on the Elear after volume matching.
May 12, 2020
Rocket58
42
May 12, 2020
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jaydunndidditYes I have. Much more bass with the stock cable less soundstage and separation. It seems that the original pads that were sold at first with the Elex were in fact Clears pads (just a black version). It's what the people said here on Drops. But the pads I got a few weeks ago are exact as my original Elear pads (plus the little holes all the way around). They are the same fabric, same thickness, same odor exact same color. I never seen the original Elex pads. Are we sure that they were in fact Clears pads that they came at first ? I had compare this morning my Elear with my Clear pads different sound then my brand new "Elex" pads. I also had tried today my Clear headphones with the original cable of the Elear. I ended up with a muddy sound on the Clear doing this. Like a cloud on every things. A darker sound. Ps excuse my english Im a french.
(Edited)
May 12, 2020
Rocket58
42
May 12, 2020
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NachiI would like to see a discussion between you and the people at Cardas, Transparent audio, and MIT to name a few big names in the industrie who also have their own electric engineers. The representative of Focal in the US once told me that the Utopia sounds the best with his original cable. The same that came with the Elear (but different plugs higher quality on the Utopia one). I was asking him why they keep that heavy weight cable on the Utopia $4000. Why not put a lighter one as the one of the Clear or even the Elex. People complaints about the weight of that cable. They know that at Focal head office about those complaints... and you know what they still sell the Utopia (2020 version) with that same heavy cable. Have you any explanation for this ? Why they do that ? I hope you are not pretending that cable rolling on headphones do not alter and change the sound. Cause there is a lot of audiophiles and music producers out there that are doing so. BTW my original Elear cable is not damage it is in perfect working condition.
(Edited)
May 12, 2020
Nachi
63
May 13, 2020
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Rocket58I work in a research lab regularly with MIT engineers and Berklee sound engineers. We have discussed audio cables before. >  Transparent audio I hope you're trolling because this company sells $65,000 cables. > The representative of Focal in the US Service reps only goal is to sell the product. Do your own research before purchasing. On the merit of cable rolling, sure there are discernible differences, usually described as a softening of higher frequencies, increased bass response and midrange definition. These tend to make a difference when the cable is over 10 feet/3 meters, typically for speaker cables, and even then, only in high power/frequency ranges. This debate has been discussed for over 30 years, and the electrical principles behind cables have been known for 120 years. There is absolutely no data from scientific measurements to suggest that these differences show up in blind listening tests or peer-reviewed research. All listening tests end up as statistically random guesses. The only metric that matters for speaker cables is DC resistance. The lower the gauge, the less resistance. All you need to do is get the length of the cable and the speaker impedance to calculate which gauge you should use. > Why Focal still use heavy cables Here are my guesses. It's heavier so it feels more premium. They already have a lot of stock of these cables so they rather include them in their premium products instead of switching to cheaper lightweight cables. Otherwise, customers will complain and think "cheaper, lightweight means lower quality". It's also pretty durable so reduces warranty claims. Remember, consumer electronics company only goal is to generate profit by selling products. But at the end of the day, audio enjoyment is a subjective experience and largely about cognitive psychology. If you enjoy it, good for you. What I take issue the most is your claim that one of the most affordable upgrades to headphone sound signature, that is changing pads, is somehow less impact than the cable. Personally, I think the Elex cable looks cool and is more comfortable than the ones on the Elear or Utopia. My guess it that they can use this cable because of this price point.
May 13, 2020
jaydunndiddit
3262
May 13, 2020
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Rocket58@Nachi Very well said. @Rocket58 If you're curious about what goes into building/designing a cable, this guide breaks down all the aspects up to cores, sheathing, etc. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.nationalwire.com/pdf/cat07_design_guideV10.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiPktaGs7HpAhWvY98KHctuBloQFjALegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1_XMqoYxXDn2UjwZF82apF&cshid=1589392145649 And while not the most thorough test, it was the first that popped up to further illustrate measurements of cables: https://sfguitarworks.com/the-great-cable-myth/. Regarding pad measurements, they indeed make a much more stark difference as seen here even amongst all the Focal models: https://forum.headphones.com/t/focal-pad-rolling-experiments-measurements/2822/23 And just like Nachi stated, it's all marketing fluff to sell you a highly marked up product. Trust me on that as marketing is my day job for doing the exact same tactics as cables and other accessories have insane margins compared to headphones. The only time a cable will make any discernible difference is over long cables runs. Although if we wanted to really start going down that rabbit hole, we would have to take in effect the amp's role vs the headphone and cables resistance (which could alter FR depending on the load the amp is getting for that particular song). So, while power and dynamics can change FR in this scenario , it's less about the sonic effects of the cable and about the power/current delivery. Hence, when properly volume matching and measurements show no audible changes. Unless of course, you mentally WANT to hear a change subjectively.
May 13, 2020
jaydunndiddit
3262
May 13, 2020
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Rocket58Also, regarding your Clear pads and "new" Elex pads, manufacturing tolerances are at play here (height of the pad will affect the driver distance from your ears) as well as your Clear pads being used more and broken in, affecting their FR as well. The latter is pretty common for stiff pads (looking at you Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic) that "break down" and become more supple over time. Plenty of measurements in the wild showing this effect for a well worn set of HD 650 pads compared to a great set out of the box.
May 13, 2020
Nachi
63
May 20, 2020
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Yes this has been tested before. Don't buy a lamp, buy a coat hanger. 12-14 gauge.
May 20, 2020
Nachi
63
May 21, 2020
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This isn't a discussion in good faith, so we are going nowhere. It's up to you to form your own conclusions based on your own research. I don't get paid enough to change your mind.
May 21, 2020
Zerviscos
34
May 21, 2020
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RaingutterWell this discussion has become quite a buzz. Regardless, I might skip this and go for the Focal Clear which has a much rigid voice coil. I was listening to Max_Settings, which is quite a prominent reviewer and was even interviewed by Andrew Park from headphones.com. Talked about while the Elex clips on higher than normal db spl, it still clips on normal listening volume on tracks with excessively low sub bass like Hans Zimmer's 2049. I was reading also on some people's experience on SBAF and audioscience, also the same issue. My problem really is I'm considering this as my daily driver, switching day-to-day with my HD6XX as my 2nd daily driver. Occasionally I do listen EDM tracks with intense low sub bass. I had the Focal Elear before, so I know my experience with the Elear drivers, and I've returned them 4x until to the point I just sold them so I would stop bothering.
(Edited)
May 21, 2020
jaydunndiddit
3262
May 21, 2020
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ZerviscosThat won't matter. It is a clear design choice by Focal. It's driver over-excursion, the same as it would be for a loudspeaker. That, and folks don't seem to know the difference between mechanical clipping (over excursion) and source clipping (audio distortion) as they mistake the latter for the former . We've already had several folks reach directly out to Focal and I'll share some.od that response here that I did somewhere else in all these threads: This was shared per Focal on the issue: "Indeed, for Elear and Utopia, we have made a clear design choice. Our headphones have no level compression - on the contrary of our competitors. This allows our products to work with full performances until the mechanical clipping is activated. Meaning you jump directly from a very low distortion to a sound which could be heard as rattling / cracking noise." "Please mind that if are listening to a song with a neutral mixing (meaning the same amount of low frequencies, medium and treble), if are hearing a noise for example at 25Hz (~108 dB), it means that you are listening ~ 120 dB at 3 kHz which is highly harmful for the ears." So, of you're worried about it, you're listening at levels of 120dB, so kiss your hearing goodbye. That's irreperable damage within seconds. Either way, it's a huge overblown "issue" as every Focal headphone experiences this by design. Except for the Elegia and Stellia, but that's due to other engineering designs and them being closed back.
May 21, 2020
Zerviscos
34
May 22, 2020
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jaydunndidditok then. i'll take the risk and buy this headphones since i've looked at the ratio of the reviews of driver failures. my question is right now, how would you say i can baby this can to the best i can? my amp has a mute relay, i would leave my daily drivers, usually my older HD600 and HD6XX on the amp before turning on then often I have unplugged my daily drivers off my amp when there's no sound playing or when the volume is at 0, but usually I'd turn it off first before unplugging. Haven't had any problems for years myself with my daily drivers. Although I'm looking to replace it with an amp that has a protection relay. I don't know how muchstatistical risk-driven the Focal cans are, but my Elear experience left me traumatized.
May 22, 2020
jaydunndiddit
3262
May 22, 2020
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ZerviscosAgain, it's really an overblown issue by a very small minority that just wants to bitch on the internet. Not saying Focal hasn't had it's issues during initial product launches for the Elear/Utopia, but considering how long they've been selling them and this "issue" exists among all their open backs, you're fine. And these so come with a 2-year warranty as you're buying a new product. Over time, I've just realized people don't take care of their gear as well as they think they do (hence all the threads about yanking cables, listening at volumes near 120dB, etc.). Or, they buy them used not knowing their actual condition and want to blame Focal and not the previous owner. That's like buying a new car and getting mad the engine blew and blaming Toyota and not the previous owner for not keeping up with maintenance. If you're already taking the sort of care and following common sense as you are, you'll be golden. The fact that you reduce volume to 0 before doing anything is enough (and standard procedure, anyhow). If you're worried about clipping, know the Elex has a BIG impedance swing for the lows. I believe is rises to almost 400 ohms before staying at a nominal 100 ohms elsewhere. This is why I mentioned most don't seem to know the difference between mechanical clipping and source clipping. Tyll (and many others) measured and reported on this forever and a day ago so it hasn't been new knowledge for most of us. And if it makes you feel any better, I've had my Elex for over 2 years now, and they still sound as great as the day I bought them. Still same stock pads and cable, although I think the pads are starting to show their age (I do use them almost daily at home and while gaming).
May 22, 2020
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