Massdrop x HIFIMAN Edition XX Headphones Discussions | Drop

Massdrop x HIFIMAN Edition XX Headphones

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Oct 29, 2018

Will an iPhone actually drive these?

TheHawk

Oct 29, 2018

ClerkpalmerShould be no problem at given their 20ohm impedance

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Oct 29, 2018

TheHawk Thanks.

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MadMan007

169

Oct 29, 2018

TheHawkImpedance isn't everything when it comes to power requirements for a headphone.

NikotheNeko

Oct 29, 2018

MadMan007Uhhh, for power requirements yes. For sound quality no. The output impedance is a great example. Noise or some shit won't just reduce the amount of current to the headphones. I actually don't know what you even mean...........

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Oct 29, 2018

MadMan007Correct. Sensitivity is just as important, if not more so. The Edition XX's Sensitivity is 93 dB @ 1mW, even though they mistakenly have that figure as "Signal-to-noise ratio" in the description. For comparison, the Philips Fidelio X2 headphones have a sensitivity of 100dB. That 7 dB difference is massive in real-world listening volume.

MadMan007

169

Oct 29, 2018

NikotheNekoUhhh, for the power requirements no. It's unfortunate that there are so many amateur youtubers and reviewers that perpetuate the same information all over until it becomes 'common knowledge' - but incorrect common knowledge. Then people just go on and repeat it as if they have an understanding of what the electrical properties even mean. As noted by mattris, sensitivity matters a lot. The HiFiMan HE-6, one of the most notoriously hard to drive headphones ever made, has an impedance of 50 ohms. So going by the simplistic 'impedance determines drive difficulty' line of thinking, it shouldn't have any really special power requirements. Its sensitivity of 83.5 dB makes it very demanding of power. Further, part of the problem with understanding an amplifier's actual output is everyone just specs power in Watts, without quoting max current and voltage. This can matter for some headphones that work better with one or the other.

NikotheNeko

Oct 29, 2018

MadMan007Well you can calculate out the voltage by yourself. And yes sensitivity does matter but with an impedance of 20ohms there is a lot of current going to the headphones. They do not list the sensitivity but I doubt it is insanely low. Either way, its not something I would be worried about, if the sensitivity is low its gonna sound quieter on everything.

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Maxxevv

Oct 30, 2018

ClerkpalmerNot to volumes that are practically usable. The sensitivity is too low. You'll need to be listening to them in a very, very quiet room if powered from an iPhone. Even then, it may not be sufficient for many genres. You'll need about 100dB sensitivity for most handphones to power up with sufficient volume.

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Oct 30, 2018

MaxxevvThanks. So the better answer is no an iPhone is not sufficient? Disappointing for sure. After listening to Mobius and Grado GW100, adding an amp or DAC seems exhausting particularly since these seem to be targeting portability.

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Oct 30, 2018

ClerkpalmerThe Edition XX is a full-size, open-back headphone and was never targeting the portable market. It cannot be driven properly from a phone, almost all of which contain very poor DAC/amps without enough voltage or wattage on-tap.

Oct 31, 2018

ClerkpalmerSorry, but what part of “open backed” even remotely sounds like it is targeted at portable use? :-)

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Oct 31, 2018

jsmiller58This is a direct quote from the description above: With a uniquely low impedance of 20 ohms, the Edition XX is easy to drive from your laptop or portable music player. So massdrop and hifiman are saying it. I'm new to all of this but my question was a fair one. I get it. iPhone isn't sufficient. I appreciate the feedback.

Oct 31, 2018

ClerkpalmerActually, I was trying to be just a little funny - and clearly failed. I really don’t care what HFM or MD says... by their nature the USE MODEL of an open back headphone is one where the listener is indoors, probably segregated in a quiet place away from other noise sources and people who could be disturbed by the sound leakage. To me none of that sounds compatible with portability, irrespective of what can drive it. That was what I was trying to poke good natured fun at. In all seriousness, in my opinion open backs deserve a nice desktop system, even an inexpensive one (I bet an inexpensive Topping D30 DAC and an O2 amp would beat the snot out of most portable players that aren’t in 4 digit territory)... As to compatibility with portable setups, in this case I am less impressed by the low impedance than I am worried by the low efficiency... I have the Sundara, which suffers from low impedance and poor efficiency... it takes higher volume settings on my amps than my old DT 1990 that had much higher impedance, but also much higher efficiency. Anyway, I didn’t mean to offend you with my misplaced attempt at humor. Hopefully you understand where I am coming from now. And, I can certainly be completely wrong.

Oct 31, 2018

jsmiller58No offense at all. It probably was a stupid question that I should have known the answer to. A better way of putting would be to simply ask if a phone would drive them. I really want some high end headphones that don't require expensive add ons. I don't have flac files and mainly stream via tidal. .When I saw the description, I was intrigued but also skeptical. I appreciate the thoughtful response. I am enjoying my Grado gw100 which also is an open back design. Was wondering if these would feed my itch without an investment in an amp.

Oct 31, 2018

ClerkpalmerMy advice is to get a FiiO Q1 mkII portable DAC/amp ($100). Compared to any phone's headphone jack, the FiiO will provide higher maximum listening levels and offer noticeably superior sound. It's plug-and-play compatible with iOS (Lightning and standard computer cables included) and has a 2.5mm balanced-out for even better sound and more power than the standard 3.5mm jack. (You'll need to purchase an OTG microUSB cable for use with Android phones.) I highly recommend the Q1 mkII for those that want better headphone sound - but don't want large or expensive DAC/amps.

Oct 31, 2018

Clerkpalmerthere are no stupid questions - only, as I proved beyond a doubt, stupid answers :-)

Oct 31, 2018

ClerkpalmerTo put it another way, the amplifier within an iPhone will have no issue 'driving' these low-impedance (resistance) headphones. You just won't get the volume (or sound quality) as you would from a better (separate) DAC/amp.

Oct 31, 2018

mattrisThanks. I will check this out.

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Oct 31, 2018

ClerkpalmerHey man! Don’t let the audiophiles discourage you. You have options without breaking the bank. What’s your budget, including the headphone? I might be able to offer advice.

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Oct 31, 2018

MegazineHi, probably 500 to 600 max. Less is better but I'm not against stretching for the right reasons. Thanks!

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Oct 31, 2018

ClerkpalmerOn Amazon you can get the Topping D30 for 120. The O2 amp is regularly dropped here on MD for 100. That's 220 and gives you a very good desktop set up. Then whatever you are willing to spend on the headphones. By the way, there are definitely mobile options (like the aforementioned Fiio, or the iFi xDSD and Hidizs HD1000 which I happen to own). Just not certain how those portable setups will scale with your collection over time compared to a simple but highly capable desktop setup like the D30/O2. To give you a sense of how good that set up can be, I am listening to the D50 DAC (upgraded D30) and MD O2 amp, and have spent the evening with my Focal Elex, HifiMan Sundara, and MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Closed - a wide range of impedances, sensitivities, sound signatures, etc - and all sound great! As @Megazine says, there is no reason to break the bank in this hobby - and be careful, it really is possible for that to happen (look at my profile for what I have purchased this year just on MD - let my life serve as a warning to others)

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Nov 1, 2018

ClerkpalmerOk, so far from what I understand. You want a high quality headphone but don’t want/care so much for an amp and dac. Your budget is higher than I originally thought. Since you are planning to use them as a portable device, I would look for a headphone with a low impedance (maybe 150ohm or less) and a high sensitivity level (around 100). For portability needs, I’m like you; not wanting to carry much around for simplicity reasons. With that budget, it puts you in very great position! I recommend you buy a portable amp like the AudioQuest Dragonfly Red Edition. It’s small enough to carry, and not really get in the way. It will be connecting to your iPhone and offer noticibly improved sound. It’s so small it looks like a flash drive. There are two versions, one for 100ohms and another for 300ohm headphones. This is the route I took. Keep in mind, there are other small portable amps from diffent brands. The reason I’m stating this is because, once you are spending around $500-$600 for headphones, you are in amp/dac territory as a necessity IMO. If you absolutely don’t want any type of amp, I would recommend the Sennheiser HD-58X for $150 and save yourself hundreds of dollars. Plus you’ll get amazing sound.

Nov 1, 2018

MegazineAwesome suggestion. But if portability is the critical criteria, then get a closed back headphone so that it can be used portably anywhere, not just indoors and in a quiet place. My earlier point is that you really can't use open backs in the true sense of portability (which to me means anywhere, not just indoors and away from the people and noise sources). Oh, and yes, the 58X are GREAT! But, again, for quiet place listening.

Nov 1, 2018

jsmiller58 @jsmiller58 is absolutely correct. You would have to look for a closed headphone, if you will be in public spaces.

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Nov 1, 2018

MegazineThanks. How do you connect the df red to iPhone? Is cck needed?

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Nov 1, 2018

Clerkpalmerhttps://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter?fnode=05f64ae46e576d490769bc082c95e41ee197f328ad0eee7368ec86c1cdd2f1daf23bee2ed177da66d08eef76217ccd1289941f2a926f6dcb2f07ae875de58ebe6c03b3af836a71358b495795b32b69098444f1cfe5b4c4f188d0a2f4bf81dace Theres also this one. You can charge at the same time (I have it). https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter?fnode=05f64ae46e576d490769bc082c95e41ee197f328ad0eee7368ec86c1cdd2f1daf23bee2ed177da66d08eef76217ccd1289941f2a926f6dcb2f07ae875de58ebe6c03b3af836a71358b495795b32b69098444f1cfe5b4c4f188d0a2f4bf81dace

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Nov 3, 2018

MegazineWhat about audio quest nighthawk carbon and a df red?

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Nov 9, 2018

ClerkpalmerSorry, didn't realize you replied. The ohms are 25, and sensitivity is 99db. The black should work, but the red is a safer bet, and sound quality will improve. What I would suggest is to try and get them at a good deal, and that should help offset the DFR $200 price tag.

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Nov 9, 2018

MegazineThanks. I went with the nighthawks and a topping nx4. I wanted an amp with no phone battery drain. Trying to get used to the hawks. Not sure about them yet.

Nov 9, 2018

ClerkpalmerGood choice on the Topping nx4. I've heard the Nighthawks take some burn-in to sound their best. As you said, they might also take some getting used to. Do you have the option of returning them for a refund? I discovered that the HifiMan HE4XX with Brainwavz XL Earpads installed are something truly special... and probably the best ~$200 open-back headphone in the world. (There are six different model pads, each of which result in a different sound. Let me know if this interests you.)

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Nov 9, 2018

mattrisI was actually eying the sundara today or the lcd2c. No return on the hawks but I got a decent enough deal on them used so I can probably move them if need be.

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jaydunndiddit

3262

Nov 9, 2018

ClerkpalmerThe NH are indeed a weird beast. I have the NightOwls and they do require a fair bit of burn in. About 75 hours. This is Skylar's recommendation who was the creator of these headphones and I agree. After breaking them in, they sound quite good.

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